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Desc:Two men argue over the coveted 'least worst' title.
Category:News & Politics, Business
Tags:obama, debate, romney, 2012, voting obama as an object lesson
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Comment count is 34
cognitivedissonance - 2012-10-04
I listened to it on the radio and didn't get the visual cues, but Romney came off as more petulant than usual. I don't think I'm skewing to my guy by saying he didn't establish himself as any more relatable/human by not only spouting statistics but essentially making up his nebulous tax policy on the fly, and acting surprised he'd be asked for details about it.
Xenocide - 2012-10-04
The Kennedy/Nixon effect was in full effect here. Just like in that debate, TV viewers and people who only listened to the debate seem to have declared opposite candidates the winner.

I'll probably never say this again, but in this scenario Obama was Nixon.

The president looked tired, detached, and kept forgetting to look at the camera. Romney looked confident and poised.

baleen - 2012-10-04
It was flaccid Obama. Mitt did a great job making himself more endearing, and even provided us with some quality Magnum Reagan Face.

It was a loss for Obama, but I'm happy about it. In a lot of polls Obama was over Mitt with a +6-9 points lead. The most conservative ones had Mitt trailing by 1 or 2. That is not good. It should be a dead heat until the end, and Obama should deliver a killing blow in debate #3.

That's what I'm hoping will happen. I can't really understand how a presidential candidate can just make up a platform every week that contradicts the one before that and hope that nobody notices, but Americans don't have terribly honed attention spans.

cognitivedissonance - 2012-10-05
I think if you compared Romney to Kennedy in any way to his face, he'd start crying. I don't picture him as a fighting man.

wtf japan - 2012-10-05
Throwing the match would make sense as a campaign strategy if this wasn't the only presidential debate exclusively about domestic issues. That's what people care about right now, and moderates (i.e., people who vote with their gut instead of their brain) probably think Romney's got it covered as a result of the debate.

RockBolt - 2012-10-05
It's also worth pointing out that historically the incumbent president almost always "loses" the first debate

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/10/05/14240316-the-unse emly-handwringing?lite

memedumpster - 2012-10-05
Vote with your brain, be a fucking extremist! Moderation is for weak willed pussies WHO DON'T HATE!

Sorry, but that was a dumb as hell comment, I couldn't stop myself.

chumbucket - 2012-10-04
NYTimes, what's up with your audio on this?

Lehrer wasn't really ready.

Romney had more "pull out of back pocket zingers" ready to go. It's sad that debates have come down to these.
SteamPoweredKleenex - 2012-10-04
I'd love to see more Oxford-style debates where points are awarded for making your case.

However, I want electrical shocks given when questions are evaded. There should be a similar punishment for speaking falsehoods, with the jolt increased or decreased depending on the size of the whopper in question.

Bort - 2012-10-04
That's a spin on the Milgram experiment where I'd happily comply.

Xenocide - 2012-10-04
The only real zinger I saw in the debate was Romney's "you're entitled to your own plane but you're not entitled to your own facts."

And that thing was so obviously canned and pre-prepared that it was probably Romney's flattest moment of the night. Quips don't work if they sound like you've been waiting an hour for the right moment to deliver them.

wackyakmed - 2012-10-04
An entitled douchebag, a visionless technocrat, and Jim Lehrer walk into a debate hall...
wackyakmed - 2012-10-04
Also, Democracy Now broadcast a version of the debate that actually stopped the tape and allowed Rocky Anderson and Jill Stein to participate as well. After watching, I think if Rocky Anderson would be our next President if he had any sort of exposure.

http://www.livestream.com /democracynow/video?clipId=pla_4f62a5e6-b847-4d4c-baaf-263d9746405 2&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumb

Jet Bin Fever - 2012-10-04
I really like Dr. Stein. She seems smart and sensible. I wish that a vote for the Green party didn't mean taking it from the Democrats though... because the last thing anyone wants is a Republican majority.

Bort - 2012-10-04
The unfortunate thing about third party candidates is, what makes them so appealing is that they AREN'T expecting to get elected. The instant Jill Stein, or whoever, becomes truly serious about claiming the Oval Office, she'll have to start making the sorts of deals and accepting the sorts of donations that taint the Democrats and Republicans, and her supporters will smell a rat.

I still say the Democrats are your best bet for good government: the party is full of idealists like Barney Frank, Dennis Kucinich, and Sherrod Brown; and they're the party that gave us every advancement of the 20th century, including the Civil Rights Act. Worst mistake they ever made, politically speaking -- any initiative that supercharges your opponents, and leaves your ranks depleted and your party weakened for 50 years, is a huge mistake in terms of pure politics -- but that tells you a lot about their basic decency.

StanleyPain - 2012-10-04
I am super blown-away that the media was calling this debate for Romney. It's not so much that I think Obama won or lost, but Romney was clearly on the defensive. He came out swinging, so to speak, but in this really ineffective, bullying manner that just seemed totally out of place considering how collected and straightforward Obama was, whatever you think of him. I mean, if that's what "wins" the debate, then jesus this country is full of more stupid than I thought was possible.

Also, out of all the weird, invented factoids that came out of Romney's mouth last night, easily the most egregious one that Obama probably should have lept on was Romney's absolutely ludricrous suggestion that there are no monetary incentives for a company moving it's plants and/or workers out of the country. "I've never heard of it!"
Corporations do most certainly get tax incentives for essentially moving pieces of their business to other countries and then parking their profits there where they are only subject to a small trade tax and can then be funneled around without ever touching US soil (where they would be subject to our tax law). This is red letter tax law that has been the centerpiece of controversy for years n
StanleyPain - 2012-10-04
Oh, I also can't be the only person to notice that Romney flipped on virtually every campaign topic he's yet made, most bizarrely his claim that he would repeal Obamacare, but wouldn't change "the good parts" after claiming that the whole thing was worthless within the context of the debate itself.

I don't even want to look at the fact-check analysis of his whole night for fear of bursting a blood vessel.

OxygenThief - 2012-10-04
And the Romney campaign has already started walking back some of positional changes he made during this debate. Any gains he made by not looking totally incompetent and taking a more right/centre position will most likely be lost by the next debate as his campaign seems to be completely obsessed with fellating the republican base at every opportunity.

The Mothership - 2012-10-04
I think many commentators are suggesting that Romney did better in the debate because what Obama did *not* do was to call out Romney directly on his bullshit. When Romney said, 'where your money goes, that's where your heart is', I was waiting for Obama to go for the jugular and say 'well then why do you hide your money in offshore accounts and tax shelters, and not pay your fair share into the government?', but again and again he let Romney get away with talking rubbish. I'm not saying Romney won, but Obama certainly could have ripped him a new asshole at multiple occasions.

Jet Bin Fever - 2012-10-04
Romney came off as an asshole. Obama came off as a nerd. This is what people will probably take from it.

spikestoyiu - 2012-10-04
Yeah, the Romney campaign has come up with this wonderful tactic of allowing Romney to say pretty much anything during the debate while people are watching and listening, and then have his campaign aides correct it the day after, after most people have stopped paying attention. Pre-existing conditions, for example.

Void 71 - 2012-10-04
This is the worst reality show ever created.
memedumpster - 2012-10-04
Is there a version of this that's listenable without dialog cut out, distorted voices, and sudden loudness? I'd like to actually hear the debate too.
memedumpster - 2012-10-04
Sorry, didn't fast forward far enough. Pardon my rantiness.

jangbones - 2012-10-04
didn't watch

this won't decide the race, its now a matter of whether Obama can hold his lead in the face of a tsunami of attack ads in swing states
fatatty - 2012-10-05
Honestly it's worth watching just to see how weirdly aggressive Romney is at lying and yelling at an old confused man. It was more interesting than any of the McCain debates.

EvilHomer - 2012-10-04
I'm voting for Taft.
Paracelsus - 2012-10-04
Yes, you are, no matter what.

Old_Zircon - 2012-10-04
memedumpster - 2012-10-04
"The math in your plan is wrong, it will raise taxes!"
"The math in YOUR plan is wrong, it will raise taxes!"

Ah, fuck it.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/oct/03/fa ct-checking-denver-presidential-debate/
takewithfood - 2012-10-04
Apparently "winning" means "lying the loudest". Maybe next time don't get the ghost of Andy Rooney to moderate.

You guys are always welcome up here in Canada, just so you know. It's safe now; they found the stolen maple syrup.
That guy - 2012-10-07
Any luck on the daylight/year?
debate over

THA SUGAH RAIN - 2012-10-04
I live in a state that will cast all of its electoral college votes for the democratic candidate so I don't have much of an interest. Coming from that neutral position, I have to say Obama phoned this one in. Romney was clearly better prepared and potent in his arguments. By most polls he has this thing in the bag, but this kind of performance is less than confidence inspiring.
themilkshark - 2012-10-07
I don't think Romney won the debate. He did a strange job of confusing anybody who has followed his positions on major issues. President Obama made a body language error, that's about it. He is the President, and Mitt's not. Do you think Romney's ever worked hard enough at anything to feel as worn out as Obama looked? I doubt it.
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