|Change - 2012-11-18 |
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|Zoot42 - 2012-11-18 |
Hurr durr women are so crazy guys AMIRITE?
MISANDRY MISANDRY MISANDRY BBBBBBBAAAAAAAWWWWWWW
What the fuck are you talking about?
The people are protesting a "mens rights activist". Men's rights is stupid bullshit anti-feminism garbage thinly disguised as an attempt to solve male issues. I was parroting the way they react to this sort of shit.
Oh. Shut the fuck up. You are being Douchebag Goatee. Everything Douchebag said is at best misinformed.
Warren Farrell is a legitimate ally of the women's rights movement, and has been since the sixties. His theories center on both men and women owning their actions in all things, and on women not being treated as victims needing to be sheltered and protected.
The fact that anti-feminist pricks have decided to cherry-pick self-affirming bullshit from his books has fuck-all to do with his message (which those same pricks miss) - which is that neither gender should accept patriarchal gender norms.
Camille Paglia called...
Alright I looked him up and am sorry for overreacting. I've been running into MRA's a lot recently and it's driving me up a fucking wall. Every time I go to a fair-sized social studies class some fedora'd shitlord will pop up and tell everyone how -hard- it is to be a straight white man in an oppressive gynocracy.
Not to mention the whole fucking internet where that shit is spreading like a plague. I can't ever seem to get one word in on even the most civilized video game communities, and I have to keep myself from even fucking thinking about websites like reddit.
The thing that gets me is how fucking fast it has spread that I'm legitimately concerned it could make its way into the mass media (which is sexist enough already) and these guys seem so fixated on stripping everything we women have achieved over the last 100 years. It's really opened my eyes to how hard it must be for minorities and the like, to be constantly threatened by society moving backwards while being treated like shit at the same time.
So going to college and playing videogames/ using the internet is
Funny for a guy who calls me out on shit like that when he says shit like this:
"That's an interesting detail and I didn't realize until now just how absolutely blast your brains full of meth or something like it happy most RPG's actually are. Now that I think back, most RPG's have gross drug abuse in the guise of pushing the spreadsheet a few numbers up in a battle."
"I do think this console would be great, especially for independent developers (the ones who can afford an Android license), but there are concerns.
The rest of the industry, I hear, is planning to phase out consoles. What habitat will this thing live in? The versatility of the delivery system for the games will be vital to the consumer and the developer, especially if you have to learn some kind of bastard poorly documented API to be able to port a game to it, through it, for it, or because of it.
We all know the video game industry sucks for everyone in it from CEOs of companies to players (only the people who write the theme songs don't want to kill themselves), so all video game promises come with the same amount of salt required to send your cyborg across a wasteland only guarded by Jean Claude Van Damme. It has about those odds of surviving even if it knows six kinds of roundhouse kick. It's hard to have faith.
I don't think this is a swindle, just some amazingly brave and no doubt drunk on cash right now programmers and bouncers trying to live the dream of making a redundant product. It better get NetFlix.
Make no mistake, if this thing comes to exist at that price I'll get one."
You sure as hell sound like another gamer talking about videogames on the internet to me!
What I was trying to say is that this shit is leaking all over the web, as you can clearly see it's leaking in to PoETV too and other smaller sites, Reddit is an example of how bad it can get.
MRAs have been here for a very long time. It didn't spread.
Remember how it used to be that nearly everybody that believed in the dictionary definition of feminism refused to be associated with feminism? Everybody, male and female, on the right and on the left all assumed that Rush Limbaugh was accurately describing feminists' positions on issues?
Back then, MRAs were worse. Much worse. They weren't so angry because they didn't have anything to be angry about. They said the same shit about women that they say now, but they didn't have to say it about all women. They said it about A woman. Connie's just an attention whore. Carol's totally lying about the rape. Susan probably just made the whole thing up.
Back then, if a women said "It's really fucking creepy when a guy follows you to a secluded place and starts hitting on you even though you've already made it clear you're not interested" they'd say "You're just being oversensitive!" Most of the men would agree, most of the women would stay out of it. Now when a woman says that, other women agree with her. Men listen to what she has to say. Some men freak the fuck out and start sending her rape threats or open letters to imaginary Muslim women explaining that Rebecca was going to eliminate gender discrimination in the Muslim world, but instead chose to spend a few seconds of her podcast explaining how men could avoid creeping her the fuck out.
The MRA movement is a wonderful thing. MRAs are awful, but at least they got rid of all those post-feminists. I was starting to feel like that construction worker that found that cartoon frog that would only do a vaudeville act when no one else was around.
|whensaidthemoon - 2012-11-19 |
Okay, well I guess I should inform myself by reading this lengthy interview with noted feminist Warren Farrell.
Dammit I knew it, the wikipedia article is so positive about him but in this article it's clear he's an MRA:
"In America and in most of the industrialized world, men are coming to be thought of by feminists in very much the same way that Jews were thought of by early Nazis. The comparison is overwhelmingly scary."
No most of us don't think that asshole thanks for telling me what I think.
"So you would socialize them to be disposable. And the reason the subtitle of The Myth of Male Power is Why Men Are the Disposable Sex is because everything in that book is a counter to the belief that men have the privilege."
REALLY? Woman have been viewed as way more disposable then men ever have. He mentions that the ancient male version heroism is dying in battle and says it's a great sacrifice yadda yadda yadda. Well guess what you privileged dipshit in ancient Greece female babies were often thrown into the trash heap to die which is the very definition of disposable, they weren't lionized when they died they were just seen as a shameful fuck-up.
Fuck you change this guy is a total hack.
Man, what a juvenile fuckbag. I had a hard time ploughing through that garbage. Not sure to rate this 5 for evil or 1 for shit.
I'm all for the "men's movement" in the Robert Bly sense of the term. He was more interested in getting men to liberate themselves frozen, self-hating emotional states where they felt trapped and incapable of expressing themselves as fully developed human beings.
This guy is just a schoolyard whiner catering to divorcees and douchebags who need reasons to hate women, and I'm sure he's making plenty of money from the fact.
Really love this part:
"So for example, armies usually constitute the underprivileged. Imagine telling women that since 1.2 million American men were killed in war, we're going to have an affirmative action plan to have 1.2 million women killed in war before we ask another man to register for the draft." Well, there ARE affirmative action programs in the military and women do trumpet the success of women in the military and rightfully condemn the mass raping of our female servicewomen by their male companions. The way he puts it is so cynical. It's a snide piece of fluffy casuistry for the men who have to make child support payments to ex-wives that they hate.
Men's rights are women's rights. That's the cornerstone of equity feminism. What the fuck is wrong with a men's rights activist?
I'm talking actual activists, trying to shape an equitable environment. The assholes you're talking about when you default to 'MRAs' are masculinists, and you should really consider a change in language. Both gender feminists, and our patriarchal society benefit when you use a term representing any male-gendered person who is advocating for true gender equality as a denigrative for masculinist assholes who want to set men's rights back several generations by undercutting the efforts of women's rights activists.
I've read a lot of Farrell's articles from the 90's, and a lot of the articles from masculinist periodicals. He didn't react well when people with your attitude decided he was an asshole for implying that feminist equality should apply to both men and women. He spouts a lot of pseudoscience (and personal feelings) when he should stick to facts and statistics. But until there was loud anti-male backlash from anti-'Men's rights' feminists (which is to say, gender feminists), he was solidly against anyone embracing masculinism, and all he advocated was true gender equality.
If you said that Farrell makes three good points for every ten bad ones, it's stupid to dismiss him entirely - we should be dismissing the ten bad ideas, and applying the three good ones.
I can't tell if it's laziness preventing people from sifting the wheat from the chaff in his ideas, or if it's human aversion to short-term discomfort, even if it leads to long-term gain. I do know that no males I've ever read have been able to get any traction in feminist circles if they suggest that men need to be treated and respected equally - and the reason that they're dismissed is no better than 'Oh, he's just a chinbeard MRA'. I don't like that we're okay treating men that way, just because the idiots of the gender are content benefiting from the patriarchy.
"We have to go right to the death issue, because you're talking about people being annihilated because they were Jewish, and I am talking about a million men going to their deaths because they were males. That's called the draft, and it's important for people to hear that we're talking about ways of killing a group of people because they belong to that group and that the death of a Jew is no more precious or less precious than the death of a male. I am a quarter Jewish. "
A whole fuckbag of fuckbags.
Baleen - thank you for referencing Robert Bly. He's a wonderful thinker, and one of the best allies that the feminist movement could hope for. It'll be a genuine loss when he passes on.
Women are not equal in a negative way, that is a fact. Fighting for equal rights for women also fights for equal rights for men. Women are the focus because they are on the shitbag end of the inequality.
His whole premise is false. If he wanted men to be equal, he'd argue they should have less privilege.
I wasn't dismissing him for his gender. I was dismissing him for his asinine opinions, his insistence on blaming women for the effects of patriarchy on men, his silence when his interviewer compared rape to penile circumcision, and his invocation of anti-feminist boogeymen like judicial bias against fathers and a non-existent epidemic of false rape accusations. Just because a broken clock is right twice a day is no reason to keep checking it.
Change you ate aware that the SPLC has decided to call Men's rights a hate group, right?
I'm aware that language shapes preconception. And I'm aware that a masculinist group managed to co-opt the term 'men's rights', leaving it so that now women can't discuss gender equality without listeners assuming that any reference to 'the rights of men' is a reference to that group of ignorant self-serving misogynists. I'm also aware of my peers failure to change that preconception.
Moon, fuck off with that 'twice a day' crap. Farrell went from one of the most enlightened men on the subject of feminism and the sex-role debate to being a pro-male pseudo-scientist - and this happened largely because of gender feminists' willful ignorance towards his (very reasonable) supposition that we needed to work on our side of the gender line to deconstruct a paradigm that leaves men vulnerable to an anti-woman culture. More willful ignorance isn't the fucking answer.
Your incessant attempt to shut down this conversation with accusations of close-mindedness give you as much credibility as a Young Earth Creationist, so I don't even know why I'm bothering here. Baleen, memedumpster, Zoot42 and I have already read this man's words, and we have already pointed out the problems with this man's thinking. memedumpster in particular has nicely summed up the fact that our issue is not just with particular beliefs, but with the incredibly bullshit premises, which are identical to the premises of the men's rights movement (the real one, not the not-at-all-misogynistic one that you keep citing but never giving an example of).
Sure, Farrell doesn't go into outright rape apology like the profanity geysers who comment on A Voice for Men, but he presents the same distorted statistics, the same bizarre hyperbole (the draft is the Holocaust? really? and he thinks it's cool to say that because he's a quarter Jewish?), and the same insinuated appeals to the misogynistic stereotype of the gold-digging harpy who robs men of their money and children before falsely accusing him of rape. These are the same claims that Paul Elam, GirlWritesWhat, Camille Paglia, etc. make; we've all heard them before, and tried to take them seriously before, and I for one am not going to make that same mistake again, just as I'm not going to continue making the mistake of arguing with someone who submitted a video with a loaded new title and tags just so that she could use it as a soapbox for her Kathleen Parker impersonation.
I wasn't talking about a men's rights movement, asshole. I've been talking about the backlash that's happening whenever someone opens their mouth to discuss a man's fair place in a post-feminist world. Exactly the same fucking way you have, right fucking now.
I had a problem with every person in this video, from Farrell and his shithead poster, to the protestor who used google to find facts on Farrell, and managed to fuck up all three facts he'd cited (Farrell was shitting on rape culture when he'd said rape was 'exciting', it was Paglia who cited Stalinism, and he sure as hell didn't dismiss 'victim data', he if fact used it to bolster his own bullshit - this stupid backwards interpretation is a hallmark of Internet feminist protestors, going in half-cocked).
I hated the jackboot method used by the police, to shut down a legitimate discussion, I hated men in the building (who by all reports were taunting the protestors), and I hate the protestors for losing their cool to such simple bullshit.
But now, I just kind of hate you, and your pride in making assumptions. By all means, fuck off.
Favourited because everyone's comments on this video except Change's are very cogent and useful for future discussions on this topic.
|Koda Maja - 2012-11-19 |
Not surprised at all that this is from Toronto.
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