You took the words right out of my mouth.

It means we are closer to achieving equality.

Projection 101.

do you think those arguments are right when made against feminism? I have honestly never heard an argument against feminism that actually understood the concept of it. much like anybody that argues against evolution can't even explain it. I guess my question is. what arguments have you been hearing? because I find it hard to understand how you can listen this video and go "oh. just like the arguments against feminism."

oh shit. I just reread your post less drunk. and yeah. that is a keen observation.

They're all self-confessed beta males, so it should be pretty easy to kick their asses and pick on them.

This guys channel is amazing.

I stumbled upon this channel a few weeks ago and keep up with it. Dude makes some really good arguments and he's a wrestling fan.

Five stars for being an Atheist that doesn't make me uncomfortable describing myself as an Atheist despite the fact that I don't believe in gods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uAR4nb3TLg

Z the problem with mras on male victims of domestic violence is that they don't really want it to stop, but instead use it as a tit-for-tat excuse about why we shouldn't try to stop rape and abuse of women. MRAs didn't campaign for PREA (which disproportionately affects men because of incarceration rates), just use it to argue that VAWA is unfair

Actual activists against rape and abuse are welcome regardless of gender

the guy in the video is doing a bunch of scorekeeping between genders, too. he just does the scorekeeping to discredit the MRA.

that's why he's an asshole

Zerdzer, I'm not sure what you mean. It sounds like you're saying that in American (let's just stick to that right now, since it's the most familiar to most of us) society a man getting beaten up by a woman in ANY context is not considered embarrassing for the man, or counterintuitive, or backward or funny, or surprising, or emasculating (the last one is kind of the root of all the others), tied up with the basic cultural assumption that men are naturally aggressive and women are naturally passive? That because Americans haven't been socialized to believe this (or at least despite the fact that they have been) there is no reason to expect that a man who was being abused by a woman wouldn't have additional social and psychological pressure to keep it a secret ON TOP OF the social and psychological pressure that is common in abusive relationships regardless of gender?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I honestly can't tell for sure if that's what you mean.

if i were a guy getting physically abused by my wife, i might be reluctant to report her doing this to anybody for a lot of reasons.

first, who do i report it to? who do i go to for support? i might have to research these things to find out. then of course, she's my wife, the person that society expects me (and i want) to be protecting and providing for. what kind of outcome to reporting her should i want to have? maybe i don't want her to get in trouble (breaking up the family could have really bad consequences).

a guy in this situation probably isn't thinking about how to get back at his wife. maybe in some situations he is, but won't act because women tend to win alimony cases. there have been some horror stories about that, and really that's a whole other issue.

and yeah, a man will probably feel emasculated if his wife is abusing him like that. this is a source of extra shame, because for many men it's ideal to have a submissive wife. plus, to have married somebody who abuses you is a source of shame, period.

all in all, it's a really complicated and terrible bunch of social pressures, and to reduce it all down to saying that a guy just feels shame because he isn't being manly and wants to appear outwardly manly is massively insensitive.

Congratulations, zerdzer, you have correctly identified the patriarchal socially-constructed gender norms that are to blame. Let me find you a bra to burn. Your lack of caps is also very bell hooks.

yeah, bras are pretty useless

but i don't understand what you're saying.

i was bringing this stuff up because the guy in the video acts like a dick and he doesn't talk like he's considered any of these things, most feminists and MRAs don't seem to have considered things like this.

Zedzer...what ashtar is saying with his "...identified the gender norms that are to blame" comment is that your post is pretty much the exact same thing feminists argue in regards to gender norms and abuse. and by making that argument you sound like you're reading straight from a feminist pamphlet. your "this is what a feminist looks like" t-shirt should be in the mail.

people here are always calling me either a misogynist or a feminist, i don't get it. how could i be both of those things?

I don't think that because someone disagrees or takes issue with certain feminist thought that it makes them a misogynist (hell I don't even know what it means I just know that when my girlfriend says it I'm in trouble...that's a joke). My guess is they call you a misogynist because you say stupid stuff about certain issues that makes it seem like you haven't bothered to learn about them or you're choosing to ignore key facts. Why you're being called a misogynist, as opposed to just ignorant or stupid? I have no idea.

yeah seriously

they're about what you'd expect from Youtube