|Jet Bin Fever - 2013-06-10 |
I have a question for you guys, where do you get your news? In looking for information on this stuff I've come across endless news stories that are sensationalized and irrelevant. I just want the facts, Jack.
You should probably start here.
Read the Times and WaPo exposes from 2007 and earlier, then ask yourself "Why am I all of a sudden caring about this now? Long after it is possible to do anything about it? Who wants me to care, and why?"
Don't go there OW; you don't want to be accused of being an Obot.
Also, Calculated Risk, the Washington Monthly, and TPM for news...
|Oscar Wildcat - 2013-06-10 |
But, I have my guns, Glenn! What is all that other stuff you are talking about?
|kingarthur - 2013-06-10 |
Also, I can't stand Morning Joe. The only way they'd be more condescending and inane is if they were on CNN.
|Bort - 2013-06-10 |
Point of order, Greenwald: they're not listening in on calls or reading E-mails. They're collecting a fuckton of data about who is in contact with whom, and that's disturbing all right; but it's not quite as far as Greenwald is going. If this is serious enough to sound the alarm about, it's also serious enough to be accurate about.
There's also this:
http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/07/18831985-offic ials-nsa-mistakenly-intercepted-emails-phone-calls-of-innocent-ame ricans
So good, they do engage in some level of self-correcting behavior. That doesn't mean that all is well and nobody should be concerned, but it does demonstrate at least some checks and balances within the system to protect privacy. So it's not Big Brother, at least not yet anyway.
It's fair to say that all the metadata is stored, and likely after they get done building that big new complex, the raw data itself. The supposed check to all this is a court order to access the data, which is so stupid I regret even bringing it up.
The system is already built, so the genie is out of the bottle. Frankly, I would be worried if I was an elected politician. For it is not I who will be the target of those "abuses" mentioned. For example, I wonder where the SIGINT came from to cause this guy to resign in 2008.
I think that's the bigger issue is now that the genie's out we don't know who will be President in 2017 or 2021, or who they will appoint to head the NSA or Justice Department. 9/11 unleashed a series of slippery slopes that we're currently sliding down at various speeds and we don't know how far we'll slip or be pulled in future administrations.
Shaving the edges off the constitution needs to be a public discussion as much as possible, and not one that's done mostly in secrecy for our own good. Maybe this is overblown, but whistle blowers are one way to ensure checks happen if the subject is too secret to check.
And maybe this was more of a hindrance to our intelligence officers than it's worth, but we're talking about civil liberties for once, which needs to remain in the public discourse instead of quietly renewing the PATRIOT ACT every year.
Especially considering things like this:
Totally agreed -- the sooner we can revisit (and hopefully reject) the creeping post 9/11 surveillance powers, the better.
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