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Desc:Its not about the jury
Category:News & Politics, Crime
Tags:racism, The Young Turks, zimmerman, trayvon martin
Submitted:RockBolt
Date:07/16/13
Views:1896
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Comment count is 40
StanleyPain
Not a huge TYT fan, but a-fucking-men. Absolutely.
chumbucket
Yeah I can't stsnt TYT either but he's spot on in this.

chumbucket
*stand

takewithfood
Still can't sit through more than about 2 minutes of Cenk, even when I probably agree with him.
Bort
Well done, Cenk.

Also, I'm going to get on the prosecution's case: what is this bullshit about putting up only a single charge (murder)? Any serious prosecution would have put up every charge that had a chance of sticking, and even tossed in hate-crime charges as a bonus multiplier. The prosecution took a dive on this.

One thing that this case has taught me: there's more racism afoot than I'd imagined, and it's up to us white folks to call white folks on it. Benefit of the doubt / giving them time to "evolve" has NOT worked, not with enough of them anyway. All we can do is make racism as uncomfortable as possible.
chumbucket
Yes totally agree with this.

memedumpster
I... don't know if/how much cynicism I have rubbed off on you, Bort, or if/how I should feel guilty about it.

Fuck it, you get the barbed wire, I'll start digging the post holes for our white FEMA camps. I think we may be able to process crackers into crackers for outlying Chinese villages.

fermun
Florida 2nd degree murder is coupled with manslaughter. They ruled on 2nd degree murder and on manslaughter. Both were not guilty.

Bort
fermun: the prosecutor went with just the murder charge. It was the judge of all people who introduced the manslaughter option, no doubt sensing that the prosecution was mishandling the case in a fashion indistinguishable from taking a dive.

memedumpster: your cynicism hasn't rubbed off on me, I just didn't see exactly how racist people could be until this case. Apparently plenty of white people see blacks exactly as they do pit bulls: possibly fit for human companionship if properly trained, but scratch the surface and you'll expose it for the vicious animal that it truly is.

The one thing that gives me faith in the future is, as with everything else, the younger folks have their heads screwed on straight:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0406/Poll-Trayvon-Ma rtin-case-divides-US-by-race-age-wealth-and-politics

That's an old poll, but I imagine a post-verdict poll would show similar trends. So I guess I'm largely where I was before: demographics are going to usher in better people and better government, but there are a LOT of shitheads who need to start dying. I just didn't realize quite how many shitheads there were or how impacted the shit is.

Bort
And as a follow-up thought: it seems that, on position after position, right-wing America isn't happy until someone is being needlessly and unjustly harmed. I don't think right-wingers necessarily started out that way, but after decades of grooming that's what they've become. Is there a word for that, where your natural inclination has become causing harm to others where possible? I'm pretty sure religious folks have a word for that.

memedumpster
It's okay, Bort, it's time like these I turn to Jesus...

John 15

21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.
22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.
23 My bad.

Paracelsus
Good points about the police. Made it about five minutes in before the style caught up with me.
Change
You're all nuts, Cenk rules.
Old_Zircon
I bought an older iPod Nano on eBay last week to record band practice on (the mic pics up the hard drive in the Classic) and the previous owner left a bunch of TYT and Fox News Daily podcasts on it. Clearly a confused person.
Change
Why confused?

zerdzer
-1 star for tyt, but cenk has good things to say today
Chocolate Jesus
Finally done singing your song, huh?


memedumpster
The Internet never forgets.

*cue wind whooshing through leaves sound*

zerdzer
i haven't changed my position at all. make sure you don't forget

John Holmes Motherfucker
This is good. I think you guys really need to have an argument about what the last argument was about. And then comes the spanking, and the oral sex.

spikestoyiu
This was okay. I've never watched this guy before. I can see why some people can't deal with his schtick.

Obviously race is an important and complex subject and the way it ties into this case is equally as important and complex, but people are so fixated on it that I can't recall hearing a single person talk about how scary it is that we're allowing armed citizens to play policeman here.
Anaxagoras
For better or for worse, this isn't his usual style. Normally he's more jovial and jokey, while still trying to make solid points.

To be honest, I'm not sure if I like him in general. He sometimes seems incredibly stupid or a blow-hard. But at other times he seems completely on-point and insightful... like he was in this clip.

sosage
Remember when all of our jaws hit the floor when the defense opened with a knock-knock joke? That was a simpler time...
urbanelf
Wow. 5 for evil. Cenk is truly a moron.
Anaxagoras
And with this post you have furthered the conversation exactly not at all. Thank you for your contribution.

Change
As much as elf deserves sass, I'd actually like to hear her qualify her statement.

zerdzer
he was so emotional!

Cena_mark
Come back when you have something better to say country giant.

PegLegPete
I agree that the prosecution didn't know what the fuck. A 2nd degree murder charge was ridiculous and they should've known it would never stick. Personally, I don't think Zimmerman pre-meditated anything and agree with Cenk that manslaughter or something like it should have been the charge. And the jury probably thought the same thing.

Cenk hits it on the head with the investigation. And he makes a great overall point about racism during is raving which was pretty unnecessary and turned people off from his argument no doubt.

However I think some of the people on board with Zimmerman are there for the Stand Your Ground Laws/self defense pathology more than racism if at all, but it could be both, who knows for sure.

I have serious issues with Stand Your Ground. For instance, it's a law that is very similar to the rules under which soldiers (in the context of US forces during the major Iraq operations) operated: if you feel under threat of bodily harm or death, it's legal to use deadly force. Why should civilians in this country be allowed to act like soldiers? It doesn't make sense, especially since, conveniently, "dead men tell no tales".
zerdzer
my understanding is that in most states, "stand your ground" lets you do what zimmerman did in or around your house

but in florida, you can just do that anywhere

should be talked about more, really

baleen
It should be talked about more.

memedumpster
I live in a Stand Your Ground state. People have gotten away with shooting unarmed persons here while feeling threatened. What stand your ground does not mean, even here, is STALK YOUR PREY AND ASSASSINATE.

You may find, that if you learn English, the words "stand, your," and "ground" are in no way associated with "stalk, prey" and "assassinate."

It's fucking amazing.

Bort
"W-what is this?"

"A stick-up, buddy! I'll take that necklace you're wearin', lady!"

"Leave her alone, you, or ..."

"OH MY GOD I'M IN FEAR FOR MY LIFE!" ::blam::

"Thomas! You've killed him! Help! Police help!"

"OH MY GOD YOUR SHOUTING MAKES ME EVEN MORE AFRAID!" ::blam::

"Th-they're dead! You killed them!"

"Stop looking at me that way, kid! It's scaring me!" ::blam::


This is why there was no Florida Batman.

John Holmes Motherfucker
If murder was the only possible charge, I would have voted to acquit.

But manslaughter is a slam dunk. Even if Zimmerman was defending himself, because he initiated a situation he couldn't control. To me, that spells manslaughter.

Gmork
oh boy

John Holmes Motherfucker
Cenk has a talent for grasping the obvious, and this is one of those times when a gift for grasping the obvious is in short supply.
Change
He does more than grasp for the obvious.

I'm really starting to think this anti-Cenk sputtering is fueled less by actual antipathy, and more by petty nerd jealousy.

Bort
My problem with Cenk is that, on more complex matters, he shows the political acumen of a tapeworm. Like the old "why do the Democrats even try to negotiate with the Republicans?" question ... I understand the frustration, but the answer is pretty simple, and it primarily comes down to sheer numbers. Per the Constitution, majorities are required in both chambers to pass legislation; when the Republicans have enough numbers in either chamber to block any legislation they don't like, you kind of legally need their approval to get anything passed. This is basic eighth grade civics, and Cenk doesn't understand it.

I'm frustrated as hell with Reid not trying to fix the filibuster, but that's a slightly different question. The point is, for all of Cenk being a political gadfly, he honestly, genuinely doesn't understand that our Congress runs on numbers of votes, not toughness or will or whatever (accidentally fascist) criteria he wishes they did. And that's bad, for example when he stirs up so much frustration with liberals / progressives / whatever that he encourages them to sit out an important election like 2010 ... exactly the worst possible strategy to pass any sort of progressive agenda.

John Holmes Motherfucker
Is petty nerd jealously not actual antipathy?

I didn't mean to insult the guy. My point was WHY AREN'T MORE PEOPLE SAYING THIS?

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