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Desc:Submitted for the answers
Category:News & Politics
Tags:biology, sexuality, lgbt, Born This Way, some dum dums
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Comment count is 19
Shoebox Joe - 2013-08-15
Fuck PBS and their public-funded shit heels taking the "Postcards From Buster" episode off the air. And fuck Margaret Spellings

If there ever was a reason to believe "liberal controlled media" is a lie, this is the biggest piece of evidence right here.
candyheadrobot - 2013-08-15
Oh yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and say that I go with choice, not just because there's plenty of evidence to substantiate people being informed by environment over genetics, but that whole "why would you choose to be that way" argument makes it sound like gay people have cancer or something. Imo: we learn what we like, and then we go after it. I'll just assume I'm wrong though, and will prepare my ego to be shattered for holding the wrong opinion.
SweaterCollection - 2013-08-15
What kind of environmental stimuli cause gayness?

Old_Zircon - 2013-08-15
I always found it interesting that between the 60s and now the two sides have basically reversed. "born that way" used to be a way of saying homosexuality was a defect, while considering it a something that a person chose voluntarily was progressive and empowering.

Old_Zircon - 2013-08-15
Not saying I feel that way, it's just interesting how complete a reversal it was.

Old_Zircon - 2013-08-15
Also I've known enough people whose sexual preferences shifted around in all sorts of ways over their lives that I think it's naive to think many people are absolutely one thing or the other; the entire homosexual/heterosexual dichotomy is pretty artificial and largely socially constructed, so the whole debate would be ridiculous if the repercussions weren't so serious.

takewithfood - 2013-08-15
Also: How is being affected by your environment a choice?

Shoebox Joe - 2013-08-15
I think the biggest problem people overlook is the fact that your strongest emotion for what ever predicament you're facing is hardly easy, or actually able to be, changed. We're given so many things to learn in life that the notion of sexuality feelings/thoughts/preferences almost becomes an absurd abbreviation.

People are so infused with arguments. Being right. Importance. Patriotism. That the notion of someone burning in hell, suffering bigotry or feeling miserable for something possibly and perceived as a choice that it sends shivers down our spines. Whether or not we have one. Whether we believe people can change thoroughly in the most naive tense. Whether or not we're in touch with what a strong base emotion is.

The biggest problem isn't that we're learning because we feel it's right. The biggest problem is that we're learning because we're told it's right and that we believe they're right through and through. We're not learning to explore. We're not learning to learn. We're not even learning to love learning. We're just learning to move on.

candyheadrobot - 2013-08-16
I hate to ruin Old Z and Shoebox's much more elequent explainations, but since I was questioned I should respond in turn.

@sweater: While I did say environment, I was more or less just using that as a catch all for culture and experience. There are places in the world where the environment holds no preference for hetero or homosexuals, so people are able to accept their feelings and go forward with them. On the other hand there are environments which supress homosexuals a great deal, so even if people might feel that way at one point, they will actively curtail those feelings in order to live an easier life. While there are people who are brave enough to accept themselves and follow their desires despite adversity, I think this is a choice they make based on their feelings, sense of self, and level of social intergration. I also believe that attraction is fluid, and that the idea of being one way or another in general is more a construct of individualism, rather than a natural human trait. I realize old z said that already, but it's essential to my belief as well, as faith in the contrary says that Liberians are genetically violent, and that's something I don't buy.

@takewithfood: While our environment sets up a great deal of things out of individual control, such as finance, transit, education, and other essentials, I think that sexuality is something that is still individually attained. Should a person live in an environment where females are more abrasive than males, they might end up enjoying male company, likely asigning their romantic feelings towards that gender. While a person's environment might limit their choices, sexuality can't happen with one person, so it's logical to assume that it's based on interactions with others. Out of that, I believe that a person can develop feelings for another person no matter what circumstance they're born into.

I should also state, that I mainly take my cues from a strict non belief in the genetic argument, as the needs of food, water, shelter, and human connectivity we see today aren't based on what combination of genes people are made from. No one is born racist or criminal; from what I've read, even serial killers are known to have suffered trauma which helped to construct their personalities. We are a social species, and how we interact and live socially determines how a person develops. I may not be explaining any of this adequately on this particular subject though, so here's something of a support I guess:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/ 06/biological_basis_for_homosexuality_the_fraternal_birth_order_ex planation.html

There's also a video in the hopper about compassion which lends to my thinking about the genetic argument, but hey, I've got opinions. Woo.

CIWB - 2013-08-16
There's a certain stigma associated with implying that homosexuality is not an entirely genetic phenomenon that I think is unwarranted. Of course it wasn't a conscious choice, but that's not the same thing as saying that it's entirely genetic. We're all dumb, hairless apes who like having our genitalia stimulated in different ways, and our sexuality exists on a wider spectrum than most people are comfortable with, whether they identify as hetero or homosexuals.

Shoebox Joe - 2013-08-16
@CIWB I think the biggest problem with the genetics/nurturing argument is that it's nothing more than an archetype of rationalizing how to accept the situation with out any real inflection as to what acceptance/understanding really means.

Pull away the science. Pull away the psychology. And you're either left with a person who you never knew was being oppressed or a person so garish and obnoxious that you can't feel anything other than utter hate and disdain for. Pull away the pre-conceived happiness and you're left with some one who is a complete mystery/typical person to talk to with out any notion as to how to act around.

I personally believe a lot of aggression, a lot of anxiety in general could be extinguished if toy companies didn't separate the sexes. Will still have the theocratic bullies telling people what to do with out thinking, but it'd be a better contrast to what we have now.

memedumpster - 2013-08-17
Of course it's not a choice, dudes have more to play with. Who chooses "less to play with?" No one.

Pillager - 2013-08-15
November 1984. I suspected I was straight for as long as I could remember. The divine rack of Roberta Vasquez resoundingly confirmed that notion. Candy Samples & Linda Carter also helped.
Kabbage - 2013-08-15
Oh god

Spaceman Africa - 2013-08-15
I'm still waiting.
La Loco - 2013-08-16
I've always wanted to be gay, but being cheerful, gleeful or happy has always eluded me. Not even cat videos make me feel gay now. Occasionally I'll feel slight gayness watching someone slip, die or otherwise injure themselves being stupid but that's more schadenfreude.
Ocyrus - 2013-08-16
Sexuality is clearly not a "choice", but being wicked gay is.
jaunch - 2013-08-16
I like how some of the people just instantly change their belief once the interviewer asks them "when did you choose to be straight?" The last lady is a good example. Sometimes all it takes is to get people to question their belief, just once, to change their mind.
Blue - 2013-08-16
I remember the exact moment I chose to be gay.

So far I've been successful, if you don't count Nick. Whatever. Everybody gets ONE.
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