|Cena_mark - 2013-09-23 |
Yet another reason why I don't keep up with hour long drama's with long story arcs. I tried a few episodes of lost and have hated them ever since.
Animated shows though I have no problem with. Season 2 of Legend of Korra looks awesome!
Lost, Heroes, The Sopranos, and now Dexter.
Enjoy your crushing disappointment losers.
The fall anime lineup is looking really good this year, too. Titles like Kill La Kill, Kyoukai no Kanata, and a bunch of titles from Noitamina all look great and have some incredible talent working on them.
I've been watching Ray Donavan, and it's already starting to get just a liiiiiitle ridiculous with the Marvin Gaye Washington side story.
(And yes, the Erza Goodman side story is already quite ridiculous, but he was a ridiculous character to begin with.)
Heroes was total garbage after the first season, I'm pretty sure most people who were tuned in by the finale just wanted to see the trainwreck.
I was doing the same for Dexter until the end of Season 5 -- the chemistry between Julia Stiles' unstoppable cryacting and Hall's bored murmur was pretty equal to bleach and chlorine. after watching this, I have to admit I missed some quality shame, and kinda wish I had stuck around until the final flop.
If anything good came of Julia Stiles role in Dexter it was this animation created by webcomic author, artist and PoE alum spacecoyote:
I started watching Sherlock, the BBC reboot. It's really good amazingly.
Disappointed by The Sopranos?!
Sherlock is amazing. It's Dr Who without all the stuff that keeps non-nerds away from Dr Who.
And there's nothing wrong with long story arcs, so long as the writers know what they're doing and have a plan (JMS's 5-seasons-compressed-into-4 for Babylon-5 for example) before shooting starts. That requires a few things going in, which includes a head writer or at least a very, very small group of similarly focused writers who can work together, some balance between "we want to go on for X number of seasons" vs "if we get canceled we can at least have a Star Wars ending where it could continue but you don't wind up on a cliffhanger."
Go watch "The Wire" and then tell me an ongoing story sucks.
As a contrast to hating arc-based shows, I'd hold up things like Star Trek Voyager (though nearly all of the Trek franchises suffered from episodic writing) where they let nearly anyone write an episode, nothing changed when the premise kind of demanded it should, and since little to nothing ever changed, there was never any sense of progress.
Can long-form TV suck? Yep, but episodic TV can be just as bad, if not worse, unless you enjoy watching the same thing over and over.
You're right steamy. I think a good series should mix in episodic shows with an on-going arc. What really pissed me off about lost was how EVERY episode was a cliff hanger and how so few bones were actually thrown to the audience. I got fed up with it and just said, "fuck this."
Fuck, I made that very same Lumen joke after that episode ended.
Supernatural does a good mix of arc and stand-alone.
X-Files tried to have an arc, but they didn't know where they were going and... well, even with not-Mulder in the cast, I started liking the stand-alone episodes more, though that wasn't saying much.
But back to Dexter. I haven't watched it since somewhere near the end of (I think) Season two, but I know it's based on a series of novels. My question would be to any die-hard fans: Is this kind of thing from the books? If so, it's not like people didn't see it coming. If not, then start a rage-Tumblr.
Sexy Duck Cop
SPK: I haven't read the books, but from what I've heard by the third book Dexter kidnaps Rita's kids, raises them to become serial killers, and learns his DARK PASSENGER is actually the incarnation of the Assyrian God Moloch.
I am not joking. The most recent book is apparently about the crew of Dexter: The Tv Show invading Dexter: The Book.
If you could tell me if these developments are brilliant or stupid, it'd be much appreciated.
I honestly don't have a clue. It's quite meta, but introducing a new element (the supernatural) into a series about a serial killer in the final hours is about as coherent as, say, putting aliens in a movie series that had previously been about finding magical religious artifacts.
|Nikon - 2013-09-23 |
It's a good thing they ended this show when they did, when they still were on top and hadn't devolved into pure stupidity/silliness.
Sexy Duck Cop
I was really confused by the whole Saxon/Argentina thing. Was he supposed to kill Saxon, THEN go to Argentina? Or kill Saxon bfore going to Argentina? If only the show explained this 700 times for me.
|CornOnTheCabre - 2013-09-23 |
SPOILERS: This show literally ends with Dexter driving his boat and his sister's corpse into a hurricane. Then he turns up in the epilogue as a bearded lumberjack, who has apparently abandoned both of the people in this clip in Argentina.
People talk shit about how you'd have to be a sociopath to have any sympathy left for Walter White whatsoever. If this is true, every person who saw the last episode of Dexter and still saw his actions as heroic should probably be chemically sterilized for the complete lack of basic human empathy inherent in their judgment.
|Caminante Nocturno - 2013-09-23 |
Only stupid people watch network TV.
Premium channels can actually foster way more horrible TV than network, because you've already got your subscribers' cash, and if a show can pop even a miniscule rating, and it doesn't cost too much to make, there's not a whole lot of reason to cancel anything. this is the same reason Weeds got like eleventy seasons.
That's why Arli$$ stayed around so long.
Uh-huh. If that were the case, "Carnivale" would have gotten a chance to finish, along with "Jeremiah."
Cable doesn't mean you get buckets of cash forever for nothing. They still rely on ratings.
yeah, but HBO's the exception, not the rule -- mostly because they produce much more expensive shows than anyone else. If Boardwalk Empire was on NBC, it probably wouldn't even have made it through the midseason.
also, Jeremiah ended because Stracynski bailed, not because of poor numbers, and actually didn't leave too many hanging threads, relative to a show like LOST.
i'm just saying shows like Weeds, Dexter, and Californication can exist much farther past their concepts' realistic expiration date. it's not guaranteed security, but c'mon, you could rrreally see the stretch marks on every episode of Dexter after the second season, to the point of which it seemed like the executives behind it actually took it as a point of pride that they had completely alienated most mainstream audiences (and not in a fun, money-making way)
While Dexter's initial premise obviously ran dry after Season Two, the show caught it's second wind by Season Four, which I think we can agree was it's finest hour. I also enjoyed this last season, mainly because, like True Blood, the writers decided to say "Fuck it" and just have fun with goofy shit.
Like this scene.
Weeds I never liked, though. I will not defend Weeds.
@Corn: Jeremiah didn't exactly end because JMS bailed. It ended because MGM started trying to end-run around him and wanted people cast because they were pretty, not because they could act. If we're talking about shows sucking, that's a pretty big reason a lot of them do.
"Showtime was great, no mistake, but MGM [which produces the show] has overall been the most heinous, difficult and intrusive studio I've ever worked for. I've worked for, and had great relations with, Viacom, Universal, Warner Brothers and a bunch more. But I will never, ever, work for the present administration at MGM."
If this was after Babylon-5 Crusade, then that's saying something. On that show, the suits wanted someone on the ship that couldn't understand an alien race unless he had sex with it, for crissakes.
That alien sex dude was in an episode of the original B5 series.
Not sure any of JMS's complaints should be taken at face value. He complained about network interference during B5 too, but sometimes the networks know things that JMS doesn't -- for example, that you need an engaging lead rather than one that audiences will eventually come to appreciate. JMS is also responsible for some seriously crap writing making it to the screen, and if you don't believe me, take a look at the crowning moment in B5, the one that can't be blamed on anyone but JMS: the final confrontation with the Vorlons and the Shadows. Turns out the Vorlons and Shadows were just lonely, and they could be Captain Kirked into leaving ("get the hell out of our galaxy!").
JMS deserves credit for good writing and good ideas too, I don't deny it. But it's not as simple as the networks introducing all the suck into what would otherwise have been a top-tier production.
...if Kirk was backed up by a demigod that both sides revered and demonstrated that their squabble was a never-ending pointless argument over who was right that resulted in death on a large scale. What did you expect Sheridan to do? Duke it out with two opposing races whose technology is over a million years beyond our own? How else could he have "won?"
And I don't think everything he's done is gold, but he's a good writer far more often than he's a crap writer. "Grey 17 is Missing" is his worst ep., and even that had some decent parts (just not the ones with Robert Edlund). In his defense regarding studio interference, he produced memos and e-mails detailing a lot of the utterly clueless demands that have been made on his shows which are pretty indefensible unless you're the kind of person that thinks tits and ass improve everything.
@FABIO: No, that was about a race that sealed every formal contract with sex. Big difference.
"...if Kirk was backed up by a demigod that both sides revered and demonstrated that their squabble was a never-ending pointless argument over who was right that resulted in death on a large scale. What did you expect Sheridan to do? Duke it out with two opposing races whose technology is over a million years beyond our own? How else could he have 'won?'"
You've just shown that the entire premise was pretty dumb: the Vorlons and Shadows were fighitng each other for thousands of years, and never even noticed it was for no good reason, but fortunately those humans were able to explain it to them. So while I agree that there was no way to beat the First Ones in a fleet battle, isn't it convenient that all it took was a Kirking to make them go away? Not very good writing, not very good writing at all ... and it was the most important event in the entire "Babylon 5" story.
|BHWW - 2013-09-23 |
Never a fan of Dexter, really but I checked it out from time to time and every time I did it was boy howdy, how embarassing to watch. Like that high school reunion episode which seemed to have been written by an angry nerd grinding axes years after school, Dexter is popular at the reunion because he's CAPTAIN SCIENCE and shit, so take that you dumb JOCKSSSS! and gets a blowjob from the chick who used to cheat off of him in chemistry, etc. etc. etc. Indeed, a fair number of the episodes I did manage to see had that air about them.
In the end, Dexter was the prime example of what happens sometimes when the producers of a TV show have the oppurtunity to create a series without the constraints of broadcast network television - the best they can do is amp up the blood, tits and swears, like certain comic books that are promoted as being for "mature audiences" but you know, really aren't.
Though the books the series are based on are even worse with a lot of smug nerdly "heh, you stupid mundanes with your strange customs" and "you think I'm bad just because I torture-murder people? well, you're all just as bad as I am! So there!"
I though Doakes was a funny character though.
Sexy Duck Cop
That high school reunion scene comes from Season 6, which is near-universally regarded as the worst season of the show (I think 8 was much worse, but entertainingly so).
A good rule of thumb is to watch seasons 1, 2, and 4, then pretend the series ends there. It'll be a brief, fun ride. I even enjoyed the third season, although no one else shares this view. But everything after season 4 is a narrative trainwreck that's enjoyable as a freakshow but agonizing as a drama.
|dairyqueenlatifah - 2013-09-23 |
I'm glad I stopped watching after the end of Season 2. All I remember is a fantastic show that ended with a vindictive crazy bitch with a funny accent getting what she deserved.
|Xenagama Warrior Princess - 2013-09-23 |
This is one of those narm moments isn't it?
Damn. Glad I stopped watching Dexter when I did.
|Hooker - 2013-09-23 |
I found Dexter to be intolerable by the second season. They seemed to ramp up the horrendous narration to the point that he was giving a line of narration after everything that happens or that gets said. It was worse than The Wonder Years.
Sexy Duck Cop
You thought the narration in Season 2 was bad? This is an actual scene from Season 8. I've changed almost nothing.
In Season 8 he's hunting for a killer on behalf of "Psychopath Whisperer" Dr. Evelyn Vogel, who is being stalked by a guy who scoops out brains with a melon baller. Vogel gives Dexter a list of patients she treated as children, one of whom works as a salesman at a fitness store in the mall.
Dexter approaches the guy, carrying a massive hardcover medical book Dr. Vogel authored and casually says "Yeah, I like to read as I work out. You know her? Dr. Evelyn Vogel?"
Salesman: "Nope. So anyway, this elliptical has 10 speeds..."
Dexter VO: "He's lying. That means he's a serial killer. Why else would he not tell a total stranger his entire psychiatric history?"
Later, Dexter stalks him by parking five feet away from his driveway and watches him drive off to work.
Dexter VO: "Have a nice day....AT THE MALL."
While he's gone, Dexter breaks into his house.
Ghost Dad: "Careful Dex! If he catches you in his house, you'll be in big trouble!"
Dexter: "All I need is to find some clues."
Dexter is in the kitchen, a stainless-steel wonderland.
Dexter VO: "This is a nice kitchen." (notices a pair of women's shoes) "Women's shoes." (Yes, this actually happens)
Dex opens the fridge door and finds a bunch of hilariously intact human body parts. Whole brains, arms, and hearts, packed into tupperware containers with equally hilariously literal labels like SAUTEED BRAIN, GROUND THIGH, and HUMAN HEART. Dexter inexplicably freaks out, forgetting the 250 people he's dismembered so far.
Dexter VO: "Body parts!? In the refrigerator!? That must mean he's planning on eating them!! But those are human body parts! He's a cannibal! That eats people!"
Ghost Dad: "That would explain the finger in the crockpot."
Dexter: "That must mean he's a serial killer."
|Jack Dalton - 2013-09-23 |
Dexter was a fun show ruined by lazy writing. Survey: when did you give up on Dexter? ( I made it to the trinity killer).
Sort of related aside-- the second book is great... I never read the third, which was apparently terrible.
I gave up after the Colin Hanks season. After the first episode, I said, "If Edward James Olmos is dead -- and I'm pretty sure he is -- I'm checking out of this bullshit." And he was. And so I did. All in all, there were two decent seasons.
The series is pretty much downhill after Season 4, but it's still worth watching, assuming you don't have anything better on your Netflix cue (like Sherlock or A Yaksa!)
Sexy Duck Cop
I gave up when Lumen discovered the cure to being raped and tortured dozens of times is to just kill a bunch of people. Then she just sails away in the last couple minutes of Season 5 with a clean bill of mental health. I tried to watch Season 6, but dropped out five minutes into the first episode when he double-syringed two people at once while playing dead. Cross-armed.
The show's fundamental weakness has always been its unsustainable status quo. The premise is so inherently silly that the half-life on plausibility is virtually nil. Unless it took the Breaking Bad route and constantly upended major characters and arcs, at a certain point you have to wonder how many serial killers are in Miami, and how fucking dumb Angel can possibly be.
By the end, though, not only did the writers fail to change the status quo, they dove in headfirst and fell so deeply in love with the character that everyone became stupider as a result. By the end, the show didn't feel dumb so much as it felt like the feverish dream-logic of a stroke victim. Like, in Season 8, there's actually a scene where Dexter opens his door to greet Zach, says "Let's talk inside," THEN WALKS OUTSIDE.
|Old People - 2013-09-23 |
Is this a normal reaction for a parent to have? No wonder so many kids are such irresponsible pussies.
She's not a parent. She's Dexter's live-in serial killer girlfriend who escaped from prison and is now on the run from the Feds. She has a habit of murdering her boyfriends, and tried to poison both Dexter and his sister on a couple of occasions. Dexter is having sex with her / hiding her from his sister's super-rapey Miami Vice detective boss, and frequently leaves her alone to babysit his kid.
Oh and also she's staying at the sister's house, because Dexter's house is under surveillance, but this causes some serious issues, because Dexter's sister Deb is super jealous of Dexter and Poison Girl's romantic relationship. Because Deb wants to fuck her brother, you see.
huh. When I read it out like that, the whole thing sounds kind of stupid.
Stop doing that.
Okay, I can clearly see and hear you doing the exact thing I told you to not do, and you're actually telling me that you're doing it. I'm not going to stop you, though.
Well, now you're clearly wounded and bleeding heavily, so instead of calling 911, I'll do every single thing other than that.
Evilhomer if youd really been watching you'd know hanna is not ever going to turn on dexter.
|Aelric - 2013-09-23 |
Am I missing something? I mean, I've never seen Dexter so obviously I am, but how is this scene of interest in either a positive or negative light? It seems...mundane. Pretty sure this happens to kids in the real world all the time. Is that what the problem is? I just don't get it.
Oh wait, I think I see it. That was an adult that did the stunt falling on the couch, right? I was looking for a story/acting problem and not a technical one. I'm also the guy that didn't see anything in the magic eye paintings until after everyone else did.
I'm just wondering where the hell the blood is supposed to have come from. Blunt force trauma doesn't work that way.
Yeah I was waiting for something outrageous but I guess bleeding after falling on a treadmill is stupid enough.
Blunt force trauma actually can work that way, very easily.
THE BONE IS WHAT CUTS YOU, DUMBASS
Sexy Duck Cop
A lot of things. This was the part of the final Season where everyone realized the show was too terrible to ever find its footing again, and the contrast between its excellent early seasons and its atrocious final one made this "falling off the treadmill" moment Dexter's equivalent of jumping the shark.
Plus, everything else. The bored OWW OWW OWW OWW OWW OWW OWW. Turning into a 40 year-old man. Being launched off the treadmill like a catapult. The Troma-level of over-the-top gore, despite clearly bracing himself as he fell. And above all else, the fact that this easily could've worked if they just didn't show the kid falling down in the first place.
|StanleyPain - 2013-09-23 |
I watched the first 2 seasons of the show at my old job (we watched a lot of TV there) and I honestly have always been at a loss to even comprehend how this show could go past 3 seasons without being astonishingly stupid. Everything I've heard about it makes me cringe.
|FABIO - 2013-09-24 |
What kind of people loved Dexter after season 2?
|Sexy Duck Cop - 2013-09-24 |
I've been obsessed with Dexter's downward spiral this whole season. From the beginning, the show's premise has been incredibly stupid, but for four miraculous years they managed to get a remarkably well-paced thrilled out of a moronic concept.
But somehow, around the end of the fifth season, things collapsed. Hard. Characters and subplots vanished. Memories were wiped. Increasingly campy serial killers plagued Miami. Until, by the eighth season, we got this.
Season 8 of Dexter is some of the worst TV of all time, for the most incomprehensible reasons. The idea should be straightforward: Have Dexter get caught, killed, or close to either. Instead they dick around with inexplicable new characters who live and die in a span of minutes. Dexter goes from calculating monster to idiot savant to borderline stroke victim. The writers lose all concept of temporal and spatial relations. Ghosts explain large chunks of the story. Hurricanes turn people into lumberjacks. Computers put beards on babies. Treadmills murder everyone. Hannah never figures out how disguises work.
Dexter is a case study in how studio politics transform a surprise (motherfucker) hit into an even more surpris(ing) (motherfucker) hit. Scott Buck is one of the dumbest showrunners in Hollywood, yet somehow he continues to find work.
We live in a magical world.
Amen. I kept up with it, even through and after the Olmos/Hanks debacle, hoping there was some redemption coming. Instead, we got "I'm a lumberjack and I'm not OK".
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