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Comment count is 29
oddeye - 2014-03-22

Brainwashing? More like freedom for cultural and religious expression, the very thing the founding fathers of your country (I assume) fought for, son.

Also this is shit.

kamlem - 2014-03-22

As a non-immortal I don't have time to explain to you that the two are not mutually exclusive.

SteamPoweredKleenex - 2014-03-22

Freedom of speech. Unless this is one of the worst-composed segments of a comparative religions class, it's brainwashing.

EvilHomer - 2014-03-22

I think the important thing to remember here is that brainwashing is a bullshit term. One man's brainwashing is another man's education - in nearly every instance the word is used, the only appreciable difference between the former and the latter is whether the speaker is hostile to the ideas being put forth. While there _may_ have once been a clinically-sound psychological definition for brainwashing, I'd argue that decades of vernacular hyperbole have rendered the word largely meaningless, for any purpose other than crude emotional manipulation and the subversion of independent critical thinking.

In other words, using the term "brainwashing" is really only good for brainwashing people!

And yes, this is shit.

oddeye - 2014-03-22

It's merely an attempt, albeit shit, to express positive feelings they relate to their religion. What is wrong with presenting that? Being well informed of the diversity of religious belief is critical in allowing an individual to make choices.

What exactly makes this brainwashing? Did they tie the viewer to a chair and force their beliefs into their brains? Although the children are no doubt influenced by the religious background (or lack of) they are raised in, are they then barred from making their own choices when they mature?

ashtar. - 2014-03-22

Children should be removed from their parents and raised by the state. It's the only way to safeguard freedom.

kamlem - 2014-03-22

I would make the argument that teaching vulnerable people that they belong to a special group of people that have been granted eternal life, that their group alone have this privilege, and with the implication that not continuing to follow the dogma of this special group, despite a complete lack of evidence to support their claims, will result in those alleged privileges being taken away is problematic, to put it mildly.

oddeye - 2014-03-22

I can definitely see your angle there. On one hand you want to pass on your values and the values of your culture to your offspring but on the other hand they should be given options and the freedom to choose. The whole issue is problematic especially when you consider that it's the natural inclination for a parent to present their own values as superior and focus on instilling them in a child. In an ideal world children would learn a lot more about religions, cultures and values that are alien to them but then I'm a hopeless dreamer.

Basically I wanted to call you out on the brainwashing tag is all.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-03-22

I believe that technically, brainwashing involves actual abuse: torture, drugs, solitary confinement. This is called indoctrination, and sure, it's questionable, like a lot of things other people to do to their kids, and of course, it's legal. You get one good shot at indoctrinating your kids, for better or worse.

Say, does anyone else think this is shit?

oddeye - 2014-03-22

Dude, why you backtracking? It's been well established by a panel of distinguished users that this is indeed shit.

kamlem - 2014-03-22

From the ever reliable wikipedia.

"Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology (see doctrine).[1] It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned.[2] As such the term may be used pejoratively, often in the context of education, political opinions, theology or religious dogma."

As for "brainwashing".

"Mind control (also known as brainwashing, coercive persuasion, thought control, or thought reform) is an indoctrination process which results in "an impairment of autonomy, an inability to think independently, and a disruption of beliefs and affiliations. In this context, brainwashing refers to the involuntary reeducation of basic beliefs and values"[1] The term has been applied to any tactic, psychological or otherwise, which can be seen as subverting an individual's sense of control over their own thinking, behavior, emotions or decision making."

My issue with calling this indoctrination is the implicit tactic of creating a dogma with horrific punishment for those who do question it's validity. If someone is indoctrinated into believing climate change science is, much like this video, shit, there is no mechanism contained within that indoctrination to scare the living fuck out of those that begin to think differently. The wiki entry on brainwashing refers to "a disruption of beliefs and affiliations", which may not apply to children that are only just forming these things, so your criticism may be valid, but I'll keep the tag until someone comes up with a better term.

oddeye - 2014-03-22

I don't know dude, I wasn't even being all that serious on the tag shit. The debate was lively and at least we can all agree that children should be educated in a diverse range of topics, without bias, so that they may make informed decisions later in life.

If only we lived in such a world.

kamlem - 2014-03-22

The internet is always serious business.
~Ezekiel 23:20

poopy - 2014-03-23

Kamlem Wins. Flawless Victory

Pope Caius - 2014-03-22

As this was playing, my browser froze but the audio just kept going. Would a prophet care to tell me how ill of an omen this is?

RedRust - 2014-03-23

Not an ill omen, but a divine intervention. Christ did not want you to see the crappy presentation of this classic Sunday School song in visual form.

Riskbreaker - 2014-03-22

It's either homeschool for these kids of watching them suffer their entire school life.

dairyqueenlatifah - 2014-03-22

We used to sing this song at church every Sunday.

It usually came right before we sang a song about being "fishers of men" which we all snickered at because it sounded gay.

Billy the Poet - 2014-03-22

Who has Chris in a tart now?

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-03-23

I grew up Presbyterian. We used to sing something called "Jesus wants me for a Sunbeam", which in terms of metaphor and poetic imagery, I consider to be far less shitty than this piece of shit.

kamlem - 2014-03-23

Did you sing it in a raspy voice while wearing a flannel shirt?

Monkey Napoleon - 2014-03-23

Fun fact: The song was written in 1900. Anybody who ever went to a protestant denomination church as a kid has probably sung it at least once.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-03-23

Back then, everybody wore polyester.

RedRust - 2014-03-23

A sunbeeem, A sunbeeem, Jesus wants me for a sunbeeem, a sunbeeem, a sunbeeem, i'll be a sunbeeem for him...

Jet Bin Fever - 2014-03-24

That's a favorite primary song for LDS kids too. I didn't know that it was Protestant as well!

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-03-23

When I was a kid in Sunday school, nobody was really trying to scare me with the business about hell. Most people, even most Christians, don't want to do that to a kid.

RedRust - 2014-03-23

This video is terrible solely on the fact that they used a safari theme for the music video. Children doing a standing march in casual clothes would have been more appropriate. Perhaps with giant foam letters spelling "Christian" in the background. Preferably on a grassy field.

Anyhow, being raised as a Seventh Day Adventist, I found it interesting the differences in "warmth and love" between my denomination and the mainstream Sunday protestant churches (ie Congregational/United Church of Christ) Whereas the SDAs put on a judgmental, elitist aura about them, the Congregational/United Church of Christ folk were very friendly and accepting.

Also, in regards to brainwashing, the internets are doing a great job in indoctrinating son and daughter with trivial useless information via youtube channels. Not too different from biblical mythos.

Jet Bin Fever - 2014-03-24

I fucking hate spelling songs. Every single fucking one of them.

TeenerTot - 2014-03-24

Last time someone called me a "c" it had nothing to do with religion.

I was raised catholic, and we had some shitty songs too. Or stole shitty songs from the hipper denominations, who knows. I remember one with lyrics about how "if I were a crocodile, I'd thank you lord for my great smile." I guess the songs were supposed to make church "fun" so kids would willingly go and soak up the holiness.

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