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Desc:I haven't seen Blackfish yet, but this is interesting watching nonetheless.
Category:News & Politics, Educational
Tags:Sea World, Blackfish, impeding shitstorm?
Submitted:Unmerciful Crushing Force
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Comment count is 30
Anaxagoras - 2014-05-18
That *was* pretty interesting. Thanks for posting it.
bias - 2014-05-18
This is some real bullshit. Dude prattles on for 17 minutes without making a single solid criticism about the doc.
Gmork - 2014-05-18
Still waiting for even ONE refutation of the "whale facts" portion of the seaworld tour.

dairyqueenlatifah - 2014-05-18
I haven't seen the film but five stars because I've seen way too many documentaries that pull this "we have our per-concieved narrative now lets edit the footage and narration to fit" bullshit.
Nominal - 2014-05-18
But King of Kong was awesome.

SolRo - 2014-05-18
"I haven't seen the film but this video fits my ' per-concieved narrative' now lets bash it"

dairyqueenlatifah - 2014-05-19
Can you read? I'm not bashing the film, which is why I made it clear that I haven't seen it.

I'm bashing the shitty documentary film making tactics he's talking about.

The Great Hippo - 2014-05-18
I stopped watching a minute in -- when he opened with assurances that the trainers have taken every step to make captive killer whales as comfortable and happy as possible.

That right there tells you everything you need to know: This man is a moron. No one cares whether or not the trainers are doing everything they can to make killer whales happy; what we care about is whether or not a killer whale in captivity is really as well off as one in the wild; whether or not it's even _possible_ to give captive killer whales a comparable quality of life to non-captive killer whales. And the answer is, apparently, an unequivocable 'fuck no' -- with a side-order of piping hot 'that's such a fucking stupid question to ask I don't even'.

I haven't seen Blackfish, and I don't ever need to. The response from the other side has told me everything I need to know about this issue: These people are deluded idiots and they should not be allowed to do the shit they're doing.
SolRo - 2014-05-18
I like how the idea that a sterile environment with a good diet and some toys = best possible life.

The Great Hippo - 2014-05-18
It enrages me to no end just how quickly people like this redirect the discussion from 'Should we be keeping killer whales in captivity? What are the genuine benefits, and do those benefits outweigh the damage captivity has on them?' to 'Hey, are we REALLY mistreating killer whales, I mean seriously we're giving them a six-course meal every day, amirite, guys?'.

I don't think whales are as important as people but the immediate parallel that springs to mind is Guantanamo Bay, where you had morons changing the discussion from 'Should we REALLY be keeping people imprisoned without due process' to 'Are we REALLY mistreating the people we keep imprisoned without due process'.

I don't fucking _care_ how you're treating them; I care that you're putting them in cages _in the first place_. Seriously, how fucking hard is that for people to understand? Apparently, the answer is 'very'.

But hey, whatever, former SeaWorld Trainer Dude. Don't let little things like facts, reason, or morality slow you down on your one man race to outstupid yourselves.

The Great Hippo - 2014-05-18
And, yeah -- seriously, how can you be so fucking stupid to not see the difference between a playpen that's essentially an olympic swimming pool and a playpen that is THE ENTIRE FUCKING OCEAN?

It pains me to realize that a video on the internet wherein an idiot rambles about captive whales has managed to 'get my goat' so thoroughly, but Jesus Christ fuck these morons and fuck the stupid, lazy, irrational thought process by which they come to their moronic conclusions.

memedumpster - 2014-05-19
You still need to see it, because it's awesome. This guy is full of shit in his critique and this is not a hacked together doc.

RockBolt - 2014-05-18
Since no one here has actually seen Blackfish, you might consider it before taking sides (it was on netflix last I checked). Its not specifically about "oh performing animals is so bad, etc" its about human deaths and negligence and spineless profiteer executives.

The documentary focuses one the killer whale called Tillikum and the shady practices involved with capturing him, the terrible and cramped conditions a low budget aquarium Sealand kept him in (that likely fucked him up mentally and led to his aggression), the first person the whale KILLED there, the fact that he was then sold to Seaworld and new trainers who weren't told about the first death, and the two more deaths that this aggressive whale caused after that. Seaworld can't bring itself to release the whale or otherwise put it in a more proper environment because he is incredibly valuable for breeding, and Seaworld execs throw the corpses of the dead under the bus and blame them for causing the killings. And this is all being told BY former trainers, who slowly figured out the danger the top brass at Seaworld were hiding from them, and later blaming on them.
James Woods - 2014-05-19
There's never rabid pit bull around when you need one.
TeenerTot - 2014-05-19
I couldn't watch this whole video. Fuck this guy.
memedumpster - 2014-05-19
I've seen Blackfish, this doesn't address a single issue.

1.) What about Sea World being caught lying in court?
2.) What about the long list of dead trainers?
3.) What about actual whale science saying captive whales are emotional wrecks on a tight rope about to snap?

This is combative obfuscation.
Anaxagoras - 2014-05-19
You might be (and probably are) right about 1 and 2, but 3 is complete bullshit. There is no science (whale or otherwise) that could possibly tell us the emotional state of an animal.

mon666ster - 2014-05-19
That is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard around here.

As to the video, which is obviously a Sea World promo, it can be summarized as an asshole who claims to love animals thinks it's OK to use them for human entertainment. Screw this guy.

Anaxagoras - 2014-05-19
You've never actually read a scientific journal, have you?

You should give 'em a whirl. You might even learn something!

memedumpster - 2014-05-19
Hey, fuck you both. More sciency than thou motherfuckers. That was from the documentary and I thought it was interesting he didn't mention it. I didn't do the fucking study.

Stupid fucks.

mon666ster - 2014-05-19
I wasn't disagreeing with you memedumpster. I agree with everything you said.

mon666ster - 2014-05-19
But please, refer me to a scientific journal which states that an animal's reactions to stimuli cannot be observed and assessed.

gmol - 2014-05-19
Emotional states of animals are barely readable. I don't like the idea of seaworld but Anaxagoras is right.

I find the trainer's testimony pretty vacuous.

Gmork - 2014-05-19
i find it fascinating that more than one person was dumb enough to say, in a public forum, that an animal's behavior is impossible to monitor or assess.

the inner thoughts? obfuscated, nobody is obviously empathic with animals, but if youre trying to tell me that people who actually interact with them all the time cannot pick up on body language and behavior, you're just not that bright.

gmol - 2014-05-19
Not impossible, just very difficult and subject to a lot of bias(even, perhaps especially, those who interact with them regularly).

Look no further than those dolphins at Seaworld "laughing" and wrigling glee in the show? They sure seem happy right?

Lots of info on teh wikipedia page, but this is an illustrative para:

"Evidence for emotions in animals has been primarily anecdotal, from individuals who interact with pets or captive animals on a regular basis. However, critics of animals having emotions often suggest that anthropomorphism is a motivating factor in the interpretation of the observed behaviours. Much of the debate is caused by the difficulty in defining emotions and the cognitive requirements thought necessary for animals to experience emotions in a similar way to humans.[12] The problem is made more problematic by the difficulties in testing for emotions in animals. What is known about human emotion is almost all related or in relation to human communication."

memedumpster - 2014-05-20
I'm sorry, guys, I didn't know you were arguing with each other.

Can't believe "impending shitstorm" doesn't just link to my history.

I suck.

misterbuns - 2014-05-19
He has the one and cadence of a Scientologist addressing criticism.
misterbuns - 2014-05-19
Accidie - 2014-05-19
It's almost like this guy watched a different movie...

I know Micheal Moore is a stupid fat-ass, but it always bothered me when people would attack the scene from "Bowling for Columbine" with him getting the gun from the bank for opening an account as being misleading. As if the thesis of the film was "you can get guns from banks" and not "violent culture associated with guns is a plague on america".

This was like sitting through a 15 minute torture session at a bar with one of those guys all over again.
Jet Bin Fever - 2014-05-21
Yay, let's all defend animal abuse for our amusement! Let's tout the EDUCATIONAL VALUE of making giant whales jump around for food!
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