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Desc:For the comments.
Category:Horror
Tags:read the comments, mra, Majority Report, comments clusterfuck
Submitted:Old_Zircon
Date:07/10/14
Views:2100
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Comment count is 56
John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-10
What's oppressing men today isn't feminism, it's the work that feminism has left undone, and which men need to address themselves. Mad because you're always supposed to pay for the date? Well, feminism didn't start that, they just haven't fixed that yet. Men need to fix that. Young men today seem to blame feminism for a bunch of crap that the patrirchy left behind.

Essentially, I think the patriarchy is dead, but men are still being brought up as if it was alive and well, and that's what's destroying men. A men's right's movement is absolutely needed, but a backlash against feminism is exactly the wrong response, and it can only fail. A few women will be raped and otherwise violated, but it's the men who will suffer as a class. It's hard to imagine the current crop of "activists" growing into anything other than lonely, bitter old men.
dairyqueenlatifah - 2014-07-10
" It's hard to imagine the current crop of "activists" growing into anything other than lonely, bitter old men."

Ah, that archetype is getting old.

There are lots of female MRAs, (there are more than a handful on YouTube with a substantial following, and they're mostly Canadian interestingly), and all four of the MRAs I've met in person are married.

Most of them are more anti-third-wave-feminism more so than they are concerned with men being an oppressed minority or some bullshit, which is a perspective I'm down with, and I think they're only doing themselves harm by calling themselves men's rights activists (I also think genuine human rights advocates who call themselves feminists are doing harm to themselves and their credibility as well).

By the way, is there a video that shows, you know, actual footage with actual context of this stuff being said, not some fifth account Fox News style spin?

Cena_mark - 2014-07-10
I'm thinking similar reasoning fuels the Christian persecution complex, cuz you know, gays are oppressing Christians by marrying.

Old_Zircon - 2014-07-10
Here's something, not sure if it has any of the stuff mentioned in this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZgr6939MPU

That guy's channel has some more clips as well as a lot of interesting and informative MRA analysis of prostitution in different countries.




There's definitely some awful, reactionary bullshit on the fringes of Feminism and personally I think the term has been appropriated by so many different (often contradictory or rival) cliques and schools of thought that it's close to meaningless at this point, but that doesn't change the fact that the lunatic fringe of Feminism is comparable to the vanguard of MRA, and if they ever hope to stand a chance of actually doing any god for men and society at large they're going to have to clean house with extreme prejudice, starting with all of their community's leaders and luminaries.

Old_Zircon - 2014-07-10
SPOILER: the woman speaking at the conference in the above link is a Libertarian activist who teaches college courses in evo-psych. So you probably already know more or less what to expect.

magnesium - 2014-07-10
dairyqueenlatifah, the context doesn't make these talks any more appealing. There are women there for the same reason Ann Coulter and Phylis Shafley exist, and they don't do anything to prove that this organization is any more lady-friendly than Coulter and Shafley do for the GOP or conservative Christianity. They get paid and they get fans. Read their blogs. It isn't pretty.

There are men's organizations out there that are doing a lot of good for men. If you google men's help lines in your area, you will find them. For bigger orgs, check out http://www.justdetention.org, http://www.1in6.ca, or http://themensproject.ca. These groups don't get nearly enough attention because a: they are not spending all their time and budgets getting attention, and b: vitriolic misogynists keep stealing their spotlight.

This particular organization, A Voice For Men, is especially heinous. After the conference, some reporters asked about finances. It turns out, AVFM takes in around 0k in donations a year. Paul Elam, the leader of the organization, has admitted that yes, all that money goes to him directly, and no, he's not going to tell anyone what he does with it. Anyone who asks gets banned from his site. http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/07/08/paul-elam-all-your-donati ons-are-belong-to-me/#more-12517
Does any of it go to actually helping men? Who knows, but don't ask you get called a "whore" and banned. Then his sycophantic followers give him more money. These people are the worst thing to happen to men's rights issues in our lifetime.

Sputum - 2014-07-10
' A few women will be raped and otherwise violated, but it's the men who will suffer as a class.'
The Fuck? You are going to have to explain yourself regarding just about every word of that statement.

themilkshark - 2014-07-10
God damn JHM, you made a fucking horrible case for "men's rights" and revealed your own mysogyny in that comment. You are a very weird man and definitely belong in the Portal of Evil.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-10
>>' A few women will be raped and otherwise violated, but it's the men who will suffer as a class.'
The Fuck? You are going to have to explain yourself regarding just about every word of that statement.

What I meant was that if a large number of people try to undo feminism, both men and women will be hurt,-- badly-- but especially men. I was running out the door, but if you think it was misogynist, milkshark, I don't think you understood it.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-10
>>" It's hard to imagine the current crop of "activists" growing into anything other than lonely, bitter old men."

>>Ah, that archetype is getting old.


>>Ah, that archetype is getting old.

>>There are lots of female MRAs, (there are more than a handful on YouTube with a substantial following, and they're mostly Canadian interestingly), and all four of the MRAs I've met in person are married.

That's interesting. I'm talking about online encounters, i don't know how my anecdotal experience and your anecdotal experience fit together, but I don't think your sample disproves my sample, or vice-versa.

Spaceman Africa - 2014-07-10
Seeing JHMF trying to discuss feminism is like seeing the rest of poetv try to define "hipster".

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-10
That's aconfusing comment, Spaceman, which, for you, is remarkably close to "interesting".

BorrowedSolution - 2014-07-10
Uh-oh. JHMF has become what EvilHomer only pretends to be.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-10
Okay, now everybody's going to pretend they know what that means.

Nominal - 2014-07-11
Swap the genders for A Voice for Men, and you have Feminist Frequency.

Oh, John Holmes. Defining chivalry as men's fault for perpetuating it while devoting all his time white knighting hot piece of ass internet lasses because only they can truly relate with him unlike women his own age.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-11
It's not really fair. He knows all about me, but all I know is about him is that he dispenses 47 flavors of stupid.

There once was a young troll named nominal
Whose ignorance was just phenomenal
He talked out of his ass
So i just let it pass
cause I needed to go to the johnical.

Old_Zircon - 2014-07-11
"Nominal
Swap the genders for A Voice for Men, and you have Feminist Frequency."


Not even close to an accurate comparison. AVFM is closer to, say, the subjects of this site:

http://theterfs.com/

except with more visibility.

And throw in a bit of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_structuralist_feminism

(in a lot of ways that's the best comparison I've found, since both are just slathered in a vile gravy of essentialism)

Xenocide - 2014-07-11
Nominal is playing one of the most popular tricks among hate groups, which is to single out an organization representing the people they hate and claim that they're interchangable.

Westborough Baptist Church used to pull the same thing with GLAAD and other gay rights groups. The KKK love to excuse their bullshit by comparing themselves to civil rights leaders of the 60's (the ones the Klan didn't murder, anyway.) And now you've got MRA's equating their misogynistic whining to the first feminist podcast or commentator pops into their head first.

Men's Rights groups have never given a damn about the actual issues affecting men. I've never seen an MRA group campaign for equal pay and better career opportunities for men of color. I've never seen an MRA group campaign against prison overcrowding, unreasonably harsh sentences, or abuse of solitary confinement in prisons, all of which are issues which disproportionately affect men (the only criminals they seem to have any concern for are accused rapists.)

I've never seen an MRA group campaign for gay men's rights. Their only acknowledgement of gays, in fact, seems to be how much they love to throw around the word "faggot" as an insult.

MRA's don't give two shits about the rights of men, because they think the greatest tragedy in modern society is that privileged suburban white mama's boys are having a harder time getting laid.

Nominal - 2014-07-11
I'm a full blown HATE GROUP now? Jesus fucking christ, the lengths you people will go through for your righteous indignation high. You want so very very badly for anyone not taking your stance to be full blown klansmen so that you can play Matthew McConaughey in A Time to Kill.

Let me amend that by saying I was going entirely off of magnesium's description of A Voice For Men.


Pretending that Feminist Frequency is tackling the serious issues that harm women is absurd. Saying that its supporters truly care about improving lives is even more absurd because I see nothing but asshats here using it as an excuse to be shitty people acting shitty.

Nominal - 2014-07-11
Here, I can play this game too.

"Just like the NAZIS, Xeno justifies his position by overblowing a certain fringe group thus reinforcing the notion that his stance is correct and necessary."

You guys literally announce your "hate boners" and the delight you get from the 2 minutes of hate you're turning this site into.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-11
just phenomenal.
Did anyone accuse nominal of being in a hate group? I just remember xenocide accusing him of using tactics that are used by hate groupls. That may be a little inflammatory. Hate groups don't have a monopoly on bullshit.

I've always considered nominal to be your garden variety internet asshat, nothing so exotic as a member of any organized hate group. For some reason that I can't quite fathom, it got personal between he and I this time. Maybe I seemed vulnerable after one of my submissions turned into a classic POE meltdown. Here's the link. GOOD TIMES!

http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=136260

Whatever, I Believe it would be pointless and even a little cruel to expect anything more of Nominal than what we always get.

ashtar. - 2014-07-12
Hey, I missed this week's JHM meltdown. Darn, I love those.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-12
Well, there's the link.

Change - 2014-07-12
Reading this is analogous to watching a slow-motion car wreck.

With an MRA at the wheel.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-12
>>Pretending that Feminist Frequency is tackling the serious issues that harm women is absurd. Saying that its supporters truly care about improving lives is even more absurd because I see nothing but asshats here using it as an excuse to be shitty people acting shitty

Anita Sarkeesian describes herself as a "pop culture critic". Feminist Frequency is pop culture criticism. That's all it is, and all it's supposed to be. The point of pop culture criticism is to think critically about pop culture , to be media literate, and have a discussion. If you don't agree with her opinion, that's part of the fun.

>>Saying that its supporters truly care about improving lives is even more absurd because I see nothing but asshats here using it as an excuse to be shitty people acting shitty

Do I even have to explain why I find this incredibly ironic? If not for a bunch of INCREDIBLY shitty people acting INCREDIBLY shitty, I wouldn't much care about Anita Sarkeesian, since I don't like video games, but I feel like if these INCREDIBLY shitty people stop acting so INCREDIBLY shitty it will improve lives.

The Mothership - 2014-07-10
ok, I've had enough.
themilkshark - 2014-07-10
Go look at reddit

Adham Nu'man - 2014-07-10
I'd love to hate on MRAs and the stupid shit they say at their conferences but there's no way I'm listening to this dude for 19 minutes.
Old_Zircon - 2014-07-10
You're not missing much, the comments are where the action is.

Adham Nu'man - 2014-07-10
You weren't kidding.

Old_Zircon - 2014-07-10
My favorite so far:

Ferdinand Salazar
2 days ago

This guy is such a little queer. The definition of a mangina faggot sucking up to feminists in the hope that it gets him laid. Take the red pill, and consider a haircut you Beiber wannabe cocksucker.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-10
When you say "mangina" and when you say "white knight" you're essentially holding up a sign that says "You don't have to take anything I have to say seriously".

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-11
>>This guy is such a little queer. The definition of a mangina faggot sucking up to feminists in the hope that it gets him laid. Take the red pill, and consider a haircut you Beiber wannabe cocksucker.

How is this not manbashing? If every man who supports feminism can only be doing so because he desperately hopes it'll get him laid what does that say about men as a species? I don't know of a more degrading sexist stereotype about men than the sexually white knight mangina, and it's MRAs who circulate it. They're the worst man bashers of all.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-11
They're not going to carry any elections, but they're inserting themselves into nearly every discussion of gender politics, and that makes them extremely influential, not always in the way they'd like. They mass trolled Anita Sarkeesian and pretty much fueled her success. Their greatest success is to redefine "feminism" so radically that most feminists are embarrassed to use the word.

Jet Bin Fever - 2014-07-10
Not the best video, but those are some 5 star comments, indeed.

The good thing about exposing things like the Men's Rights movement is that common, decent people will learn how rampant this crap is in our society and hopefully find meaningful solutions to it (the movement, not their manifesto). I know some foolish people may look to it and say "yeah! I am oppressed! Damn feminazis!", but by and large if I talk to someone in my daily life about these asshats, they speak from a position of disgust or sad amusement. I've yet to run into someone who supports it.
Old_Zircon - 2014-07-10
I found out recently a friend of mine likes Iron John, that's the closest brush I've had.

Potrod - 2014-07-10
I really don't think it is that rampant, though? (and by that I mean the MRA movement specifically). I've always gotten the impression that it's far louder (online) than it is actually influential. I've never encountered a MRA offline and I'm not sure I ever would have even heard of it if it weren't for its opponents "exposing" me to it. It's an easy target to beat up on so comparatively people seek it out for that reason.

There are a lot of sexists and rapists and whatever else out there, I doubt very many of them give a shit about the MRA movement.

Potrod - 2014-07-10
comparatively normal people

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-11
"Loud online " means influential. In the real world these people are invisible, but they're there. In youtube, you'll find MRA diatribes in the comments of videos that seem completely unrelated, and I think that effects the ability of women to find safe, nontoxic spaces online.

Nominal - 2014-07-11
Yeah MRA seems like such a tiny blip that no one would have heard of it if not for the people desperately mining for things to feel morally superior over. When they begin teaching this stuff at universities to the degree of some of the more radical feminist writings, then I'll start worrying.

I'd bet that there are over fifty times as many furries as there are MRAs.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-11
oblivious troll is oblivious.

Potrod - 2014-07-11
How is that trolling? This isn't exactly holocaust denial and should be obvious. Sexism and misogyny are common in real life. The MRA movement is an online freakshow of sadsacks that a certain type of person purposely seeks out to laugh at (or feel self-righteous about, if you're not feeling generous), like a slightly bigger TFL. That's fine (I'm not saying they don't deserve it!), but to attach any significance to exposing them seems both laughably self-important and giving them way too much credit.

Potrod - 2014-07-11
And youtube comments aren't influential. Reasonable people learned to ignore them the day it launched. People here read them purely for entertainment purposes.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-11
Pretty sure I didn't say that youtube comments were influential.

How is it trolling to say that there are 50 times more furries than MRAs? It's either trolling or idiotic, I thought I would err on the side of kindness.

Trust me on this, my naive friend, if you're a fan of feminists blogs and videos, or, for that matter, female bloggers and videos, you don't have to go seekiign out obnoxious MRA morons. They're crawling up your ass wherever you go. I have to assume that this is more or less true for any woman who becomes visible on the web.

Potrod - 2014-07-11
It's possible I'm (thankfully) missing out on a whole world of this, since there are like 6 sites that I visit regularly, only a couple of which I bother reading the comments on. Still, while "50 times as many furries" might be an exaggeration, I'd say it's fair to classify both of them as marginal, mostly online groups of outcasts that mainstream society is, at most, vaguely aware of, garnering an occasional raised eyebrow but nothing more.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-11
They're not going to carry any elections, but they're inserting themselves into nearly every discussion of gender politics, and that makes them extremely influential, not always in the way they'd like. They mass trolled Anita Sarkeesian and pretty much fueled her success. Their greatest success is to redefine "feminism" so radically that most feminists are embarrassed to use the word.

Old_Zircon - 2014-07-11
PUA and, to a lesser extent, MRA terminology has penetrated pop culture enough that even though most people aren't aware of the actual groups they're most definitely exposed to their ideas regularly. Especially PUA, that shit is EVERYWHERE on commercial TV and shows up in advertising. I assume men's magazines are loaded with it but I've only opened one of those things two or three times ever, and not in at least a decade.

Nominal - 2014-07-11
PUA crap is way more widespread, but where are you seeing the terms in commercials? Did I miss beer commercials talking about HBs?

Callamon - 2014-07-10
https://nationalparentsorganization.org/ formerly fathers and families. They do a pretty good job of covering the fuckshow that is family courts the world over. There are real serious problems out there that have nothing to do with feminism and are still caused by a bias against men. They cover some very emotional topics so objectivity isn't always the first priority but this group has little to do with female bashing and everything to do with taking a stance against male bashing.
John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-10
Family court is supposed to be biased in favor of the children. I'm not saying that always favors the mother. I just think it needs to be mentioned.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-11
>>God damn JHM, you made a fucking horrible case for "men's rights" and revealed your own mysogyny in that comment. You are a very weird man and definitely belong in the Portal of Evil.

I don't know what case you think I'm trying to make, but i consider myself a feminist first.
Change - 2014-07-12
Horseshit.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-12
Yeah, thank you for putting me in my place, random person on the internet without an actual argument.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-12
Aren't most people really feminists? I mean, is it such an extravagant claim?

Riskbreaker - 2014-07-11
I dislike most "modern" feminism, but these guys are not helping.
John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-12
Feminism IS the only Men's Rights movement that can ever succeed. And I suppose the name is problematic here, but just don't worry about that. Alison Tienen or whatever complains about the "don't hit girls" rule as if it was started by feminists, but it's part of the old patriarchal thinking. I can remember my elementary school principal telling me not to hit girls, back in the 60s.

It's not right to hit ANYBODY. It's not hard to understand why Feminism hasn't gotten around to addressing that, but maybe it's time to go there.
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