Much like you imagine MRAs are an all powerful group keeping women out of industries.

I can't imagine a modern group with LESS power, current or prospective. No company or organization will touch them. They will never rise above sad little hotel conventions and internet comments.

I know you'll interpret this as me being pro-rape, but "just avoid drunken hookups" is the solution to false rape accusations? Holy shit. That's as terrible as telling girls that the solution to unwanted pregnancies is to just not have pre-marital sex.

(I'm saying both you and MRAs are lonely men who find purpose by overinflating a boogie(wo)man then imaging themselves as great crusaders against it)

Ohhhh, Nominal, come on, I think there's more to John's meninist-fearing, FRA identity than that!

He's also got a damsels-in-distress fetish.

>>Much like you imagine MRAs are an all powerful group keeping women out of industries.

No I don't. I don't know of any evidence that women are being kept out of industries. I don't remember ever talking about this. Have we just met?

>>I can't imagine a modern group with LESS power, current or prospective. No company or organization will touch them. They will never rise above sad little hotel conventions and internet comments.

In a general way, I agree with most of this, but the internet has always been my primary concern. They have the power to make the internet fucking horrible.

>>I know you'll interpret this as me being pro-rape, but "just avoid drunken hookups" is the solution to false rape accusations?

Are you saying that avoiding college altogether is a more practical solution? Because that's a lot closer to my point. I wasn't trying to arrive at a "solution".

Holy shit. That's as terrible as telling girls that the solution to unwanted pregnancies is to just not have pre-marital sex.

Please don't bother to explain this baffling analogy.

>>(I'm saying both you and MRAs are lonely men who find purpose by overinflating a boogie(wo)man then imaging themselves as great crusaders against it)

Why, I'm not lonely at all., there's just so much to do! After posting this, I'll get back to what I was doing, writing the words to a sermon that no one will hear. Later on, I'm hoping to get caught up on my sock-darning.

>>Ohhhh, Nominal, come on, I think there's more to John's meninist-fearing, FRA identity than that!

He's also got a damsels-in-distress fetish.

Sort of phoned that one in, didn't you, Homer?

It's what I do best!

It's true, though. All of the women you obsess over have been young, pretty, and in need of rescuing. You yourself describe them this way, dwelling on the danger they're in, and on the personal heroism that you show in standing up for their honor.

There is nothing wrong with this, John. It's normal. You should feel neither guilty nor ashamed, but rather, learn to accept yourself and who you are.

Gonna have to disagree with Nominal, here. I do, in fact, believe you shouldn't have sex with people too drunk to fight you off/stay awake. This will greatly reduce you chances of being accused of rape.

It's true, though. All of the women you obsess over have been young, pretty, and in need of rescuing.

Well, it appears to me that young women experience particularly severe forms of online harassment. It also appears that way to the Pew Research Center

http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/10/22/online-harassment/pi_201 4-10-22__online-harassment-02/

From where I stand, years of anecdotal evidence overwhelmingly indicates that young attractive women are the targets of the vast majority of really bad harassment. That's because online harassers tend to be sick fucks.

Now, if you suggest that I am more inclined to be sympathetic to young attractive women, I see no need to confirm or deny that. It seems possible to me. I sometimes wonder if I'd be such a cat fancier if cat's weren't so pretty. If you can show me being unkind to unattractive people, that would be a cause for concern.

You can't "rescue" those who are harassed. All you can do is help the victims feel less alone, and make sure that fucked up things don't happen without somebody saying "that's fucked up.". But I think people should do that much.

I just don't care about perverse motherfuckers who are so very concerned with my motives for trying to do the right thing when there are so many people doing the wrong thing. I can't deny that I think attractive people are attractive, or that I want to be liked. When people seem to accuse me of these things, they're not really accusing me of anything.

Point of order:
If someone is too drunk to give consent, it's rape. Accusations or not.

Rationalizing false claims of rape by saying they're all instances of frat boys taking advantage of drunk women is a form a reverse sexism that infantilizes women by implying they can't ever be expected to take responsibility for their choices.

The real problem is that our justice system is terribly overburdened and as a result, many times women don't get the justice they deserve just as men sometimes get "justice" they don't deserve.

The subject is also an impressive dodge of what I took to be Nominal's point: That JHM sometimes uses a certain reasoning to condemn MRA's, and then turns around and uses the exact same reasoning to support feminists.

>> When people seem to accuse me of these things, they're not really accusing me of anything.

Well see, there you go! That's the spirit! You're a guy. You're biologically programmed to like attractive women, and to want to help these women in order to possibly solicit sexual favours from them in the future. When trolls point these things out, they're not actually scoring points against you - they're just stating the obvious.

For you, John, all these women being threatened by internet-dwelling meninists, they're *your* business. You need to be the hero, you need to save them - and there's nothing wrong with that. You're a true gentleman, and I'm sure that, one day, a nice teenage girl will take notice.

>>Rationalizing false claims of rape by saying they're all instances of frat boys taking advantage of drunk women is a form a reverse sexism that infantilizes women by implying they can't ever be expected to take responsibility for their choices.

Oh, fuck you. Nobody said that.

Did you know that the UVA rape hoax was never determined to be a hoax? The woman who was profiled by Rolling Stone had never gone to the police before the article was published, so when the police investigated after the publication, considerable time had passed. There was no evidence to be found, and some of the details of the woman's story didn't match up. The last time I checked, the investigation had been supended, but not closed. AFIK, he police have yet to determine that there was no rape. All we really know is that Rolling Stone screwed the pooch.

In the case of the Duke Lacrosse team, the accusations of a crazy stripper would have gone nowhere if not for prosecutor misconduct. Prosecutor misconduct happens, and not just in rape cases. We had a case in here not long ago of a man who spent twelve years on death row because of a lying prosecutor.

There's no easy answers to this problem. I'm just not convinced that false rape accusation are the huge problem some are claiming, often using these same anecdotes over and over. Of course, every injustice is an outrage. The prosecutor in the Duke case probably deserved far worse than he got. (He was disbarred.) I'm just not convinced that false accusations come anywhere near the number of rapes that go unreported. If I was raped, and there was no other witnesses or evidence, i wouldn't report it, and that goes double if I was a woman.

There are no easy answers for this. The presumption of innocence is a necessary part of our justice system, but rape is often a crime with one accused, and one accuser, that leaves the same evidence as consensual sex. for the victim of rape, the path to justice is always going to be uphill.

>>Now, if you suggest that I am more inclined to be sympathetic to young attractive women, I see no need to confirm or deny that. It seems possible to me. I sometimes wonder if I'd be such a cat fancier if cat's weren't so pretty.

>>Well see, there you go! That's the spirit! You're a guy. You're biologically programmed to like attractive women, and to want to help these women in order to possibly solicit sexual favours from them in the future. When trolls point these things out, they're not actually scoring points against you - they're just stating the obvious.

I find this idea that men are defending women in the ridiculous hope of getting sex to be supremely insulting to men everywhere. It's the worst anti-male stereotype I've ever heard, and the people who spread it are almost always the same guys who claim to hate feminism because it promotes anti-male stereotypes.

Yeah, it's because you defend women that people say that to you and not your suspiciously fuckhuge creepy walls of text nobody reads on the subject, backpedaling your ass off on the things you've posted before in the vain hope that we're reading more into the content of your posts instead of the way you choose to post them.

>>Yeah, it's because you defend women that people say that to you and not your suspiciously fuckhuge creepy walls of text nobody reads on the subject, backpedaling your ass off on the things you've posted before in the vain hope that we're reading more into the content of your posts instead of the way you choose to post them.

WHAT?

>>Yeah, it's because you defend women that people say that to you and not your suspiciously fuckhuge creepy walls of text nobody reads on the subject, backpedaling your ass off on the things you've posted before in the vain hope that we're reading more into the content of your posts instead of the way you choose to post them.

Do you ever READ this stuff before you post?


>>Yeah, it's because you defend women that people say that to you

First of all, what are people supposed to be saying to me? Some context would be nice.

>>and not your suspiciously fuckhuge creepy walls of text nobody reads on the subject, backpedaling your ass off

If nobody reads what I'm posting, why should I care what anybody thinks? And how can you tell I'm backpedaling?

>> in the vain hope that we're reading more into the content of your posts instead of the way you choose to post them.

What are you... ? Are you...?? I can 't even...!!

(sigh) What the fuck does that even mean? Listen, the CONTENT of the post IS THE POST. If you're responding to something other than the content, what the fuck are you responding to? Why am I even fucking talking to you?

>> I find this idea that men are defending women in the ridiculous hope of getting sex to be supremely insulting to men everywhere. It's the worst anti-male stereotype I've ever heard,


Two steps forward, one step back... but you're getting there, John, you're getting there!

It's not a stereotype! It's just the truth. And you say it's "insulting"? "Anti-male"? Why ever would you think that, Mr. Holmes? What could possibly be insulting or anti-male about acknowledging the fact that humans are sexual beings? Please, explain.

(I have a pretty good idea of why you might think like this, but I'd like to hear it from you first)




>> and the people who spread it are almost always the same guys who claim to hate feminism because it promotes anti-male stereotypes.


Can you cite any sources to support this statement? I certainly don't hate the FRA movement, so that's 0-1 against it right there.

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/cf3a/8z3ygwap7najpp4zg.jpg

Homer, being a sexual being doesn't make you so stupid that you think supporting harassed women will get you laid. As far I know, this has never happened. No woman has ever shown the slightest sexual interest in me because of these activities, or in anyone else I know of, or in my opinion is likely.


>>It's not a stereotype! It's just the truth. And you say it's "insulting"? "Anti-male"? Why ever would you think that, Mr. Holmes?

Because it's a stereotype, it's insulting, and it's anti-male. It's a standard MRA propaganda talking point. We're talking about "White Knights". Surely you've encountered this bullshit.

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/cf3a/8z3ygwap7najpp4zg.jpg

>> Homer, being a sexual being doesn't make you so stupid that you think supporting harassed women will get you laid.


Wait, what? Sexual harassment? Who said anything about sexual harassment?! Are you replying to me, or to someone else, because I believe I made it perfectly clear that I was talking about gentlemanly behavior, and how certain men act like "nice guys", in hopes that they will one day be rewarded with sexual favours. "Sexual harassment" is not a nice thing to do; it's a totally different strategy, and the polar opposite of what we're discussing.


>> Because it's a stereotype, it's insulting, and it's anti-male


That answer is unsatisfactory. What I want is, *why*. What is "insulting" about it? What is "anti-male"?

Again, I think that I know already, why YOU think it's insulting and anti-male. I don't want to put words in your mouth, though, so I'm interested in hearing your own rationale first - if indeed you've examined your beliefs before, and know why you feel the way you do.

Give me a break, Homer, you fucking LOVE putting words in my mouth!

What do you think "feminism" means?

>>Two groups comprised of misguided twats with their heads firmly shoved up inside their buttholes.

Consider this: The motherfucking Internet poisons everything. When I go to WOMEN AGAINST FEMINISM, and read the cards the women are holding up, I realize that for most of my life, most of these women would have called themselves feminists. At first I thought this was because they were misinformed by MRA propaganda, but then I started encountering today's feminists, and learning about micro-aggression theory (we can complain about every little thing), and mansplaining (you can't talk back).

Likewise, the White Knights and Manginias of today seem a lot closer to the original men's movement of the 70s and 80s than today's reactionary antifeminist mascunazis.

It's the motherfucking Internet, distoring every position, rewarding the most obnoxious voices on Youtube with attention, and google ad revenue, and turning every political discussion into a raging flamewar. Common sense still exists, and one way or another, I believe it's going to assert itself in the end.