I don't understand your comment.
One instance is a real-world woman making a clothing choice and not wanting to be treated poorly for it.
Are video game characters you refer to the types that are *made* dressed a certain way to represent that the gamer is allowed to treat them poorly?

>>>2)The idea that it's a slippery slope from a) the ordinary way that men wan and pursue women, even when it's shitty bros dedicated to 'bagging a lot of pussy', to b) rape is the main bullshit 'rape culture' metaphysics.

Well, I don't buy that. If rape isn't really about sex, neither is rape culture. In my opinion, things like online harassment, dickpics, and maybe catcalling are more representative of rape culture, insofar they are attempts to humiliate or intimidate.

It's a valid criticism of "rape culture" that the definition is not yet agreed on, and that it's overly broad, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

And we don't "live in a rape culture". This isn't the United States of Rape. It's not a general thing. The term refers to something closer to a subculture, like gaming culture or geek culture or what-have-you.

Sorry. Totally misplaced.

'Victim blaming' or 'victim shaming' are phrases that make sense. The two words refer directly to the phenomenon, and then you can follow that up by pointing out how it happens and why it's bad, if people didn't understand that.

'Rape culture' is a phrase to build a metaphysical castle-in-the-air with, as evidence by the people who use it and what they use it to do, which is not really to try to improve anything. They're usually too busy trying to build a religion.

>>'Rape culture' is a phrase to build a metaphysical castle-in-the-air with, as evidence by the people who use it and what they use it to do...

I disagree. I think "rape culture" refers to real things. Thinks like victim blaming, the way "important" figures (think sports players) so often get away with little or no punishment, the fact that our current societal norms tell men that they're not men unless they bag a lot of pussy, the way woman are brought up learning falsely that they can "prevent" rape by dressing correctly, or drinking the correct amount of alcohol, or saying only the correct number of the correct words, etc... The fact that the false "dark scary rapist hiding in the bushes" is still the image society likes to push...
I don't see the phrase "rape culture" as a rallying cry, but as a shorthand way of referring to these real things.
But I am curious about your take. Why do you see it that way? What do you believe the end-game is for the people "trying to build a religion"?

>>'Rape culture' is a phrase to build a metaphysical castle-in-the-air with, as evidence by the people who use it

Yes?


.>>and what they use it to do...

Such as?

>>.which is not really to try to improve anything. They're usually too busy trying to build a religion.

What?

Your argument lacks an argument.

Teener-

I just wrote 5 pages on this, and I'm going to try to boil it down into a few sentences, because it was getting ridiculous:

1) I agree with everything you said about what the phrase refers to, in your eyes, except for one part, the 'bagging a lot of pussy' part, (and even there, I'm disagreeing with the movement more than with you, I think).

2)The idea that it's a slippery slope from a) the ordinary way that men wan and pursue women, even when it's shitty bros dedicated to 'bagging a lot of pussy', to b) rape is the main bullshit 'rape culture' metaphysics. And at least some proponents of 'rape culture' metaphysics clearly believe that a) it's all cultural and b) all men are potential rapists, and c) we need to prove to them that much of what they're doing, saying, thinking and feeling is wrong.

Changeable minds or not?
3a)Psychopaths/sociopaths, let's say 1% of the population for argument's sake, probably do a high proportion of the rapes committed, and they're really just unchangeable, throw-away-the-key types.

3b)This leave all the other shades of grey, too many to count, and some of those men commit rape. Some are circumstance crimes, some aren't, I would hazard a guess.
I believe that it's fully possible to use empathy and clear, detailed stories to really cut into the incidence of rape and of victim-blaming. You can't eradicate any kind of human vice, but you could cut a hell of a lot of it down. Understanding moral responsibility versus causal responsibility is a good intellectual tool. We understand it instinctively to a degree, but not everyone has really thought it out. (It does matter that women make smart decisions, same as it would for any crime prevention, but it doesn't shift any of the blame onto the victim. It's very foolish to have one side say that the victim shares the blame, while the other says that people should be able to do anything and never be wronged. One side is victim-blaming and the other is demanding a perfect world.)

4) You don't get the right ideas into their heads with a gender-war metaphysic that 80 other things are also part of rape culture... until you're including shit that's too petty to censure and is never going to go away, like ogling or buying a girl a drink and trying to seduce her, or looking at porn (the less fucked-up side of porn, anyway). You don't want him, or his friend who could talk some sense into him, to remember nothing but tendentious, overstated, divisive ideology.

5) "We're living in a rape culture", in light of other, far worse cultures.

When you combine 4 & 5, I hope you see at least from my point of view, that it pushes the middle away. You want thoughts of empathy, not battle of the sexes. Most people are fantastic at recognizing bullshit coming from the other group. Bullshit doesn't help.
There are also going to be grey zone situations in the real world, and we're going to want men to do the right thing, becuase it's less grief for everyone. Appeal to their better nature, not to "everything you do is wrong". The latter isn't going to help with those who don't have a better nature anyway. So I don't think the movement is better if its narrative is upset people talking at unchangeable people. It needs the opposite of that.

*2a) "want and pursue" not 'wan'.

Also, I suppose what I mean by building a religion (ideology, metaphysic, etc.) is that it's too much about going to extremes for litmus-testing who's in the group, who's out; making list of taboos including things that shouldn't matter; telling a long unscientific story, adding on rooms and floors to what qualifies as the Patriarchy, externalizing enemies (that part's way in the background) etc. It's too much reaction and not enough changing minds and preventing crime.

John Holmes Motherfucker
>>>2)The idea that it's a slippery slope from a) the ordinary way that men wan and pursue women, even when it's shitty bros dedicated to 'bagging a lot of pussy', to b) rape is the main bullshit 'rape culture' metaphysics.

Well, I don't buy that. If rape isn't really about sex, neither is rape culture. In my opinion, things like online harassment, dickpics, and maybe catcalling are more representative of rape culture, insofar they are attempts to humiliate or intimidate.

It's a valid criticism of "rape culture" that the definition is not yet agreed on, and that it's overly broad, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

And we don't "live in a rape culture". This isn't the United States of Rape. It's not a general thing. The term refers to something closer to a subculture, like gaming culture or geek culture or what-have-you.

.....it makes it sound ominous, pervasive and conspiratorial. The phrase does rhetorical work that is bullshit.

The Steubenville, Ohio criminal conspiracy was a criminal conspiracy, not 'rape culture'. It's not a sub-culture. That's fucking stupid. IF there was a sub-culture, which there could be among a specific group of rapists sharing notes, it would have different features from *society* *in* *general*.