|Caminante Nocturno |
We could save that girl a trip by making an alien the Queen.
I don't want to be the one to break the news to you
|Binro the Heretic |
It's doubly sad that so many of the people opposed to immigrants fleeing dangerous violent extremists are living in countries full of people whose forebears tried to emigrate to flee the Nazis only to be turned away from other countries who gave the exact same reasons they're giving now.
Binro the Heretic
Fucking autocorrect capitalizes "nazi?"
nazis don't deserve to be capitalized! Not even when they're the first word in a sentence.
Fuck you, autocorrect. Fuck you.
Tough American Bouncer
Well, since you brought up nazis, you have to ask: do these "fled ww2" countries want to deal more with jew/gay hating culture?
You can show sympathetic kid from Syria who speaks english but reality is that 80% of immigrants are young adult males, who are not from Syria and can only speak arabic/somali.
Big problem is the way the governments are handling the situation. There seems to be no actual control over the crisis and no long term plans. Officials say that over 25% of migrants vanish to avoid official registration, meaning there is no way for those people to make money in a legal way.
State medias push the idea of migrants as saintly solution to all the problems that mostly do not exist. Governments hint that the migrants would form basis of a low cost subclass that would do the work that natives don't want to do with low wages.
Real issue is the numbers. Some countries are expected to receive number of migrants that is 5% of their native population in yearís time and no one knows when the wave stops.
Short version: it is starting to look like chaos, and people donít want chaos.
If you feel strongly about how Europeans are handling this and live in the US, write to your congressman and ask that US takes modest amount of refugees (100k Ė 300k) or really joins the humanitarian effort and takes few million people.
TAB, while SOME of the points you bring up are valid reasons for concerns, are you suggesting that Europeans need to protect the value of tolerance by being intolerant?
Also, I am an American embedded in Central Europe. I know what the general attitude towards migrants is, and it has nothing to do with concerns over the economic impact of blah blah blah. It stems entirely from hysterical racism and xenophobia. People genuinely think a bunch of dirty Arabs are going to invade their countries, rape and subsequently stone their women, institute Sharia law, and turn into Gypsies 2.0. Sure, the people who are more clever about it conceal their confirmation bias by citing spurious statistics and slippery slope projections, but if you just scratch the surface a little you can see the roots of racism and intolerance.
The hilariously tragic thing about all of this is that many people in V4 countries think that migrants from middle-Eastern countries are backwards, inhumane opportunists, but they don't realize that countries in northern and western Europe have the exact same stereotypes about people from V4 countries.
But you are right that the US should volunteer to take more refugees. We destabilized their region, after all.
So wtf japan, do you think a 'changing values' concern is a real one or do you think it always has to be racism? It seems to me they're separate, even if most people are shitty enough to conflate them.
Tough American Bouncer
I really have not seen racism in the discussions, though lots of xenophobia can be found.
I don't think changing values is a legitimate concern, especially regarding this issue. There are two reasons for this. First of all, I can think of no examples wherein an immigrant group (NOT an invader or colonizer) was able to successfully change the values of the hegemony of its host country. If some ghettoized radicals want to impose a restrictive social system, the higher government can overpower them and force them to abide by its requirements. Secondly, it is a self-evident that refusing to implement values in order to save them is absurd. If you don't implement your values, you don't have any to save.
Therefore, I would argue that anyone who cites this "protecting values" argument is arguing from irrational premises, which are most likely racist/xenophobic in nature.
TAB, V4 countries are exceptionally racist. Many of the people I talk to are horrified whenever they return from a multicultural European capitol because they saw too many black faces there. They don't want their countries to turn into that. Racism is as much a motivating factor here as xenophobia, if not more so. I don't ever hear very many people complaining about Russian or Ukrainian immigration, after all, and these groups make up some of the largest minorities in V4 countries.
Rodents of Unusual Size
Most of the rapes being committed in Scandinavia are now by adult male Muslims.
There is a culture difference, and it's vast. Muslim countries don't often protect women from rape, they blame them for it. Their culture is sociopathically addicted to destroying women from childhood to think of themselves as subservient, its a mental breakdown from early on. It's nothing more than brainwashing.
It's not that Muslims are inherently violent, it's that their culture doesn't value women the same way as other cultures do. If they did, they would have laws protecting them.
The majority of them think gays should be killed. I think that people who hate Muslims automatically do suck. I don't hate Muslims just because they're Muslim. But I don't want them immigrating here because I as a gay man have enough to fucking deal with. Do I think their culture is on par with ours? Honestly no. Their laws are far more barbaric, and the US doesn't have that much of a moral high ground, but it's worlds beyond Saudi Arabia or Syria. Europe is a step up from the US when it comes to civil rights so it's only natural to me that they are responding with trepidation over welcoming populations of Muslims in who are by and large totally unwilling to open their minds to a new way of thinking when it comes to their own culture's insistence at being naturally SUPERIOR to all others. Because that's really how Muslims think. They think of themselves as superior to others morally. You think right wing Christians are annoying? Try being an apostate in Saudi Arabia sometime and see how well you do.
And no offense, but John Oliver is dead wrong here. Not all Muslims are like the wheelchair girl. A lot of them are from incredibly fucked up situations and they are PISSED OFF. Would you want a swarm of pissed off people coming to where you live? Yeah, me neither.
wtfjapan, I know that Europe has a lot more racism than they will admit to, if I can paint in strokes that broad. I lived there for a while, and it seemed like their liberal academics though the USA was racist as hell, while the problem wasn't particularly notable in Europe.
I think I agree with your first point in general, but I wouldn't necessarily look at that question in a sweeping historical context. I'd look at it year by year, neighborhood by neighborhood.
I don't agree on your second one about "refusing to implement values in order to save them". I think that concern can be illusory in given situations. I assume that you're referring to openness / tolerance and charity. I think one's allowed practical considerations while valuing ideals; I don't think it's mandatory to maximize a value foolishly, whether it's donating your way into poverty or tolerating intolerance.
>>but reality is that 80% of immigrants are young adult males
Yeah, how dare they send their able-bodied men on a dangerous journey ahead of their families? #moredrownedbabies!!!!!1111!1
In response to ROUS's observations, what do you think about the statistics linking child abuse and gay men? Pretty disingenuous and infuriating, right? Rape libel is a tired old tactic that has been in use since time immemorial. I tried to research your statement about Scandinavian rape, but all of the sources I could find were extremely biased and hateful, so I'm going to remain skeptical about it.
Your statements about Islam and Islamic people are offensive and poorly researched. Uganda is a Christian country with Christian values. So is Russia. Does they represent all Christian countries? Are you worried about Indian immigrants? They don't do a great job protecting women there either.
That guy, your suggestion that the issue be looked at "neighborhood by neighborhood" is not necessary if immigrant groups are not isolated by economic exclusion, Islamophobia, or plain old racism. Europe's standing "Muslim problem" is mostly the result of colonialism. Algerians didn't just suddenly start taking over Parisian neighborhoods. It doesn't work like that. America does not have this problem with its sizable Muslim population because it is well integrated and spread out--not concentrated into ghettos a la Europe.
I somewhat agree with your second point, but I would point out that in V4 countries, the question is not how much to help, but IF they should help. In Slovakia, Poland, and the Czech Republic, politicians at the very top of government have flat-out rejected the notion of accepting ANY refugees and/or migrants from Muslim countries. (They eventually acquiesced a bit because the EU has them by the balls.) Hungary is particularly hateful towards refugees, as we can plainly see, and its government would happily commit gross human rights abuses if its EU overlords would just kindly look the other way. So it isn't at all a matter of "foolishly maximizing a value," it's a matter of applying it in the first place.
Tough American Bouncer
TeenerTot. This was more about how media portrays refugees. They show families, small kids and women when most of them don't fall into that category.
Of-course there is the flip-side argument: is the situation really that bad if they can leave women and children behind without stopping to the first safe country?
this is the most dishonest piece ive ever seen
Yeah, it really needs to be pointed out that some migrants are bad and have bad intentions. I mean, remember that guy the Hungarian camerawoman tripped? He was a member of al-Nusra! And that little girl she kicked in the stomach? Well, she turned out to be a huge cunt who refuses to take naps or eat her vegetables.
So build those walls Europe! Protect your beautiful Christian European humanism from those dirty refugees!
Some people are bad and have bad intentions. Any given cultural value can be a fiercely-defended abomination.
Both sides. You have to judge everything case by case.
perfectly rational points, made elegantly, to salad, or perhaps to a carpet remnant
Encountering enlightened Western societies and having life experiences which broaden their possibilities as human beings can only benefit the refugees and the connections to their old way of life they bring with them.
No one, not one, actually asked if this was good for them, the people it's about.
Racists. As. Fuck.
So white you're blind.
|Born in the RSR |
Romanians wanna be xenophobic too! But no one wants to seek asylum here :,(
No offense, but one of my coworkers is a sweet old Romanian lady, and her favorite subject of discussion is how she never wants to go back to goddamn Romania.
Romania is on the up and up, actually. Lots of businesses moving in to Bucharest. I have some friends moving to Cluj as well.
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