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Comment count is 55
Lef - 2016-06-06

still hoping.

SolRo - 2016-06-06

Yeah I also hope the old crank has a heart attack.

Bort - 2016-06-06

http://wonkette.com/602657/ap-associated-press-calls-democratic-pr imary-hillary-clinton

themilkshark - 2016-06-06

Democracy isn't about calling the winner before anyone else, unless you're a fucking late night comedy writer.

SolRo - 2016-06-06

He lost.

He lost in pledge delegates.

He lost in super delegates.

He lost in the popular vote.

The only group he's leading Clinton with is whiney white boys with an entitlement/persecution complex.

baleen - 2016-06-07

you're the whiniest white person I've ever encountered, SolRo.

fatatty - 2016-06-07

I hope the old bird dies of a coughing fit.

It will be fun to see how rich she and her friends can get off what's left of the Treasury.

Cena_mark - 2016-06-07

Bernie is best for women. Real feminists know this. There's just a few dummies who think Hilary is better just cause she has a vagina.

Bort - 2016-06-07

"Best for women" wouldn't denounce Planned Parenthood as a tool of the establishment. Even if he didn't get Planned Parenthood's endorsement, "best for women" would speak of them respectfully.

Old_Zircon - 2016-06-07

Clinton is best for women if they are college educated, make over 0k a year, live in a coastal city, and are white.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-07

I think both sides are missing some pretty obvious truth here. It doesn't matter who is "best for women". "Best for women" is a very narrow concern, based on rather shaky identity-politics; any reasonable person will agree that what matters more is the question, who is "best for American society"?

Furthermore, it doesn't even matter which of the two establishment Democratic candidates are "best for American society"! All of these presidential arguments that us citizens are being encouraged to participate are rooted in an establishment-serving, self-perpetuating Great Man Myth. One politician is not going to fix the government's problems! And the government is not going to fix society's problems! You guys ascribe all this quasi-magical power to a single, external agent (who who, coincidentally, holds a gun to your head), when the truth of the matter is this: power is, and always has been, with the people. It lies with YOU, and with me, and with everyone else in your community; the people you see and interact with each and every day. Bernie isn't "the best for women", Hillary isn't "the best for women", Trump isn't "the best for women". CENA is the best for women. BORT is the best for women. Y̲o̲u̲'̲r̲e̲ the best for women.

Please friends, stop constructing your identities around these politicians and the stories the Party weaves. They don't have the power, you do.

Old_Zircon - 2016-06-07

"Please friends, stop constructing your identities around these politicians and the stories the Party weaves. They don't have the power, you do."


The sea change that has brought Sanders so far wasn't created by his campaign, his campaign was created by it.

As much as it frightens me that the DNC has strongarmed the less electable candidate into the general election, I also think Sanders will ultimately do more good as a political martyr than he would have done as president, and at the very least what happened to him in the primaries has shed a lot of light on to the voter suppression tactics and outright fraud that are just as rampant on the Democratic side as the Republican side.

I'm not naive enough to buy the "technology is a progressivising (for lack of a more accurate term) force" bullshit you hear from a lot of people on the left (I'm looking at you, David Pakman!) but what IS a progressivizing force is income inequality. Historically people have tended to become more conservative as the age in the US because historically there was at least some degree of class mobility here (though never anywhere near what our national mythology claimed) and as people aged they tended to gain wealth and social advancement, which meant they had more invested in the status quo and tended to become more conservative. Since Reagan and Clinton binned all that, most people are, if anything, getting poorer, and what we're seeing as a result is that, on the whole, the country is sliding to the left again, to the point where an FDR style, moderate leftist like Sanders actually has a chance again.

Things are still being skewed in the elections by the baby boomers who don't realize that the Democratic party of today is more or less the Republican party of the 1960s, the GOP of today is more or less the John Birch Society of the 60s, and we have no viable left wing party.

I mean shit, Richard fucking Nixon was left of Hillary on a lot of issues.

SolRo - 2016-06-07

Sorry OZ, but you lost all credibility with your voter suppression screed

Old_Zircon - 2016-06-07

SolRo, what state do you live in? Because where I voted it was most definitely a big issue. Fortunately I had the presence of mind to vote by absentee ballot.

Bort - 2016-06-07

"voter suppression tactics and outright fraud"

Or as we say on planet earth, more people preferred Hillary and voted for her.

"the less electable candidate into the general election"

Oh horseshit. Sanders has been forced to weather almost no serious attacks, to say nothing of the lies and insinuation that the Republicans would bring to bear if he weren't more useful to them attacking Hillary. But here's a question I'd like someone to ask Sanders:

There is a private college that recently went under because its president took out massive loans that there was no way to pay back (and it certainly looks like the president made promises of repayment knowing she couldn't keep them). Given your stance on Wall Street fraud and abuse of loans, what should happen to this college president? And does the fact that her name is "Jane Sanders" factor into your answer at all?

I'd also like to know why he won't release his tax returns, except for one cherry-picked year.

memedumpster - 2016-06-07

Space Vampire / Lion House
* * * * * 2 0 1 6 * * * * *
"Perfect tits, blood, America!"

Old_Zircon - 2016-06-07

"Or as we say on planet earth, more people who were allowed to vote preferred Hillary and voted for her."

For example, even discounting the irregularities 27% of registered voters in New York were independents and didn't even get to cast a vote.

Where I am, nearly 75% of polling locations were shut down without any prior warning three days before the election, disproportionately on college campuses (I'd have to check before I could confidently say ALL college polling locations in the state were closed but it was in the 70%-80% range at minimum) and in districts whose populations skew younger. No instructions about alternate locations, or notifications of any kind, were posted at the closed locations. Even at the open locations, many people in my district were told they needed to reconfirm their registration at the state house. All employees of the state house except the janitorial staff left early with no announcement or posting of any kind. One registered democrat I know spent six hours being directed back and forth between locations spanning two counties before being allowed to vote. Sanders underperformed the polls by almost 10% despite us being among the most strongly pro Sanders states in the union.

For the more conspiratorially minded (and I'm not including myself in that, because I remain very skeptical BUT it should definitely be investigated if only to remove the very reasonable doubts about the integrity of the NYC primaries that it raises), the software that was used to manage voter registration by the DNC in New York and purged all of those registered democrats without any reason or notification was developed by a firm that has long standing business ties with the Clintons. I'm working on tracking down my source for that, I read about it a few weeks ago.

Bort - 2016-06-07

Yeah, there were voting problems in a lot of places, and they hurt Hillary too. And you'll forgive me if, for all the crying wolf Team Sanders has done every time they lose, I'm not going to take it on faith that things are exactly as you describe. Back it up, show the rigging. I'll pre-counter with this:

http://www.myajc.com/news/news/bernie-sanders-and-rigged-elect ions-sometimes-you-/nrZSJ/

Old_Zircon - 2016-06-07

Oh and even my own personal absentee ballot was delivered in a very overtly misleading manner. Unfortunately, specifically because of the way it was packaged, it wasn't obvious that it was misleading until the return envelope was sealed, so I was only able to partially document it, but among other things it involved a nonstandard postage system that was only explained on a sheet that was INSIDE the outer return envelope, folded at the bottom of it where it was difficult to notice, and even if you were aware of it if you didn't find the sheet and accidentally mailed your ballot back without removing it, it would technically change the required postage and allow the department that processed the incoming ballots to legally return it uncounted if they chose. Again, because I didn't find that sheet until after I had already completed my ballot it was impossible to document the deceptive nature of the way it was packaged but I was at least able to keep the sheet itself.

Not saying this was a deliberate, partisan move, I think it was just honest incompetence (and someone I know who used to be a member of the board of elections confirms that they are, in fact, profoundly incompetent) but it was every bit as bad as the notorious Florida ballots in the 2000 elections.

lotsmoreorcs - 2016-06-06


themilkshark - 2016-06-06

Hillary's a corrupt big money politician, of course she's going to frame any opposition as sexist especially one who has a huge chunk of voter support from registered democrats, republicans and independents.

SolRo - 2016-06-06

but not the majority, sorry!

SolRo - 2016-06-06

And I doubt sanders is sexist, he's just self-absorbed and doesn't give a shit about the democratic process.

After all his whining about how undemocratic super delegates are, he's now going to the convention to beg them -all- to go against the majority of voters because -he- thinks he's the best candidate anyhow so fuck the voters.

Gmork - 2016-06-06

The voters have his back if the delegates don't. You seem saltier than usual.

SolRo - 2016-06-06

He's losing the popular vote by 3 million.

Spaceman Africa - 2016-06-06

solro did you vote for clinton by any chance?

SolRo - 2016-06-07

Nope, didn't vote in the primary.

RikkiTikki - 2016-06-07

voted for Bernie, but SolRo's got the right of it. as this race bore on, i realized that i loved Bernie's platform, but that Bernie Sanders himself would not be a great leader. Bernie hasn't won by any tally but rally size. all the foot stomping and re-engineering of delegate morality in the world isn't going to change that. if i hear the word "rigged" again in relation to this election i'm afraid i'm going to pull my hair out. and i also hope that if we do away with super-delegates because they are undemocratic, then we also do away with caucuses, because even though they worked out in Bernie's favor (so Bernie thinks they are really very democratic) they allow few voices to be counted and cause huge messes. we don't need a messiah for president. we need a strong congress and a dynamic leader. hopefully, one day, we will have these things.

Bort - 2016-06-07

Well said, RikkiTikki.

And while I don't see a lot of evidence that Bernie is sexist, he probably wouldn't be suspected of such if he hadn't called Planned Parenthood a corrupt tool of the establishment (rather than an organization vastly helpful to the struggling poor that I thought Bernie was champion of) or if he'd tried to rein in followers pulling sexist shit (such as his campaign proxy Dr. Wong formally calling Hillary a "whore").

Then again, he could barely be troubled to say "now you boys stop roughhousing" when his followers were issuing death threats to Democratic officials, their children, and their grandchildren. Are you familiar with his non-apology? Those of you who aren't, let's let Wonkette cover it:

http://wonkette.com/601971/nice-grandpa-bernie-sanders-gonna-b urn-your-sht-dowwwwwn

And as for Bernie's claims that he's the one to reach across the aisle and win over conservatives, let's see how he handled a couple of DJs who weren't even hostile to his message, just skeptical:

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/281528- sanders-in-heated-interview-with-california-radio-hosts

Remember, this is a man who has been campaigning for a year, and yet it sounds like it never dawned on him he'd have to persuade anyone of the rightness of his stances.

Bernie lost, he lost fair and square, he lost because of Bernie. I know that the race isn't technically over and I'm all for following it through to its conclusion, but the rest is just a formality and we know the outcome.

memedumpster - 2016-06-07

Yup, Trump.

Bort - 2016-06-07

Oh, you!

Nominal - 2016-06-07

Whether you agree or disagree with him, hearing Bernie claim that he's the candidate for bipartisan compromise is like listening to Trump announce that he's the one to launch anti-bullying initiatives.

Reach across the aisle? Isn't this the same guy whose campaign team is launching a voter awareness effort to purge his own party of anyone who doesn't agree with him on everything?

Old_Zircon - 2016-06-07

"Isn't this the same guy whose campaign team is launching a voter awareness effort to purge his own party of anyone who doesn't agree with him on everything?"

You're thinking of the DNC.

Old_Zircon - 2016-06-07

Bernie Bros are a media narrative encouraged (if not started) by the Clinton campaign and David Brock.

The closest thing I've encountered to a "Bernie bro" is my mom. Actually I've been visiting my family this week and I discovered she's started watching TYT and I'm trying to steer her elsewhere, maybe Sam Seder or something.

Nikon - 2016-06-07



Bort - 2016-06-07

OZ: does your mom understand that Congress makes laws, and so long as Congress is flooded with Republicans, there's no way to pass any progressive legislation even with Bernie in the White House?

Old_Zircon - 2016-06-07

Bort that has literally nothing to do with the point of my post.

memedumpster - 2016-06-07

You laugh, Bort, but an uncomfortable amount of real life mighty whitey righty conversations, of which I have blanket refused to be a part of, has turned into how Trump is better for liberals than Hillary and how they must defeat Trump before the left elects his ass out from under them.

Conservative net news comments sections are divided between those trying to drum up support for Hillary because she is horrible for the Democrat party, and those with sympathy and solidarity with the left over what everyone on the right agrees is the Democrat party straight hemorrhaging trust and fucking over its base. We have shocked the Republican voter into sympathy.

I don't think you guys realize how far into sectarianism you have drifted outside the norm of both parties by living in a sound bite echo chamber populated with less than 20 people making politically inflaming videos.

SolRo - 2016-06-07

If sanders wasn't a useless demagogue with serious skeletons in his closet, you might have a tiny point?

Bort - 2016-06-07

"Bort that has literally nothing to do with the point of my post."

But it was a point of curiosity anyway: does a Bernie fan who also listens to TYT understand that you need to push Republicans out of Congress to have a shot at any progressive legislation?

lotsmoreorcs - 2016-06-07

you'd think those SPOOKY SKELETONS would have reared their boney heads by now, eh SadRod?

TeenerTot - 2016-06-07

>>Hillary's a corrupt big money politician, of course she's going to frame any opposition as sexist...
That wasn't Clinton asking the question. I don't know who it was, I assumed it was some reporter.

For the record, no I don't think Bernie's continued campaign is sexist. It's just really stupid and divisive.

Old_Zircon - 2016-06-07

The Clinton campaign has been framing the Sanders campaign as sexist since sometime around last October.

namtar - 2016-06-07

Seeing as Hillary Clinton is under FBI investigation, Bernie has to stay in and amass as many delegates as possible in case she drops out.

If he gave up, then it would be just that much easier for to DNC to throw Biden in.

Old_Zircon - 2016-06-07

Also his presence in the race has already pushed the Clinton campaign rhetoric leftward, and while I'd be surprised if much of that sticks in the general election, as an incrementalist I feel like it's still better than nothing.

Again, like I said elsewhere, I don't think he'd make the best president and if anything he's most useful as a political martyr for the progressive shift that put him where he is to begin with.

I just wish we had an alternative that wasn't a committed corporatist whose major selling point is she's not overtly racist (policy history of the Clintons notwithstanding - I cut her a lot more slack for her past than most people I know). I wish we could have a general election that was actually based on policy not identity politics and demagoguery.

Old_Zircon - 2016-06-07

And I've got to say I didn't take the whole email thing very seriously but it's starting to look a lot worse now. The unauthorized destruction of something like 30,000 classified documents isn't a small thing.

SolRo - 2016-06-07

And I've got to say I really care about the email thing about as much as I care about the dust on my monitor....yes it's kinda annoying but I'm not going to obsess about it.

Jeriko-1 - 2016-06-07

It's a shame Biden didn't run. I always liked him.

I will say with absolute conviction I think Hillary is as shitty of a person as Trump is. While she actually does have experience with foreign policy matters her domestic policy had better start taking social issues more seriously. Telling Black Lives Matter to 'shut up' repeatedly when they voiced their concerns at rallies for example. It was almost as if she was telling them that the nation had moved the be more progressive therefore all their problems were solved. So why were they all still making themselves seen and heard? *What do You People want, a pony and balloons?!*

And I'll say this about Bernie, he legit actually cared about the civil rights movement. Got clonked the fuck around in the 60's by shithead racist cops. Now that's what I call cred. Hillary... Cares about black people when she wants their votes. Then they can get the Hell away from her. If she doesn't think she's going to get their votes at all they're not worth her time. And she absolutely makes no attempt to hide it.

Trump and Hillary should just forgo a debate and have naked hate sex.

Bort - 2016-06-08

"Telling Black Lives Matter to 'shut up' repeatedly when they voiced their concerns at rallies for example."

Are you talking about that fundraiser where a couple girls were accusing Hillary of saying that all blacks are superpredators? Hillary never said anything of the sort, and I don't see that she had any obligation to apologize for things she never said.

"And I'll say this about Bernie, he legit actually cared about the civil rights movement. Got clonked the fuck around in the 60's by shithead racist cops. "

And then spent his years in the Senate ignoring his black constituents.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/17/vermont-s-bla ck-leaders-we-were-invisible-to-bernie-sanders.html

When BLM caught Bernie completely cold, I gave him benefit of the doubt for not having much experience with black issues, since there aren't many blacks in Vermont to talk to. Except it turns out he was deliberately avoiding them. Which would explain why his pre-Netroots Nation handling of BLM was more like this:

http://socialistworker.org/2015/05/05/sanders-dodge-on-black-l ives-matter

"Legit actually cared" my ass.

Bort - 2016-06-08

And about this ...

" Hillary... Cares about black people when she wants their votes. Then they can get the Hell away from her. If she doesn't think she's going to get their votes at all they're not worth her time. And she absolutely makes no attempt to hide it."

... you know who some of the most ardent supporters of Hillary are? The mothers of BLM victims. So tell me, are they just a bunch of ignorant easily duped simpletons or did they perhaps find that Hillary made the time for them and took them seriously?

That's something Sanders never did, you know: he never bothered to listen to blacks the way Hillary did, going on listening tours and the like. That's why she had a handle on black issues the way Sanders never did.

Spaceman Africa - 2016-06-08

Yeah guys we gotta look at the positives of Hillary winning the nomination, there's a real chance we'll have our first Woke president.

Bort - 2016-06-07

Here's some more of that legendary Sanders leadership at work: death threats to a reporter for concluding that Sanders has lost.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-reporter-th reatening_us_57570c91e4b0ca5c7b5043d5

Now, in general I don't hold a candidate responsible for what each and every supporter does; there's always a chance of psychopaths backing any given candidate. But what we have is a pattern ever since Netroots Nation of Sanders supporters harassing people they perceive as their enemies for whatever reason, and -- this is the important part -- Sanders doing damn near nothing to rein it in. After Nevada and all the harassment and death threats he issued a "you had it coming" apology, which I see no other way of interpreting than validating his worst behaved supporters. And the death threats, they keep coming. And, just a reminder: death threats are a crime, even if they're directed at a woman who pissed you off.

Forget policy, forget superdelegate math, this is a man who has no discernible problem with his supporters using threats to try to get their way. Does anyone want to say that's an acceptable way to do things in this country?

SolRo - 2016-06-07

Well SHILLARY something something, BANKS, something something, RIGGED ELECTION, something SUPPRESSING MY VOTE, something something BENGAZI something EMAILS!!!!!


Bort - 2016-06-08

Wanna hear what Sanders' own people say about him?

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/bernie-sanders-campaign- last-days-224041

Bitter, angry old man driven by grudges and ego rather than the good of the country. But he lost, and he deserved to.

casualcollapse - 2021-02-18

Stars for the drama

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