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Desc:I'll just leave this here.
Category:Video Games
Tags:boobs, video games, Anita Sarkeesian, Feminist Frequency, Tropes vs. Women in Video Games
Submitted:Quad9Damage
Date:06/09/16
Views:1922
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Comment count is 132
Cena_mark - 2016-06-09
SQW freak outs in 3, 2, 1.
bawbag - 2016-06-09
It is amazing how much her reasonable critiques actually wind up the SQW lot.

Like, I get that they largely hate anything approximating Feminism but there are surely 'better'* targets for their insane vitriol among the Dworkin-esque, TERF-y, rad-fem people or the Tumblr emo tween 'feminists'.

*whatever that means to the gamergoobers/MRA/alt-right

memedumpster - 2016-06-09
Is it wrong I have started referring to a certain group of users as "Hollywood SQWares?"

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
http://tinyurl.com/gt6nvl5
http://tinyurl.com/ln3ess7
http://tinyurl.com/z7ahr2z

Cena_mark - 2016-06-09
Yes Homer, I'm aware these characters exist, however, they are few, whereas the sexual emphasis on female characters is far greater.
We can take our discussion back to Street Fighter. Sure we have Zangeif and Seth, but they aren't sexually emphasized. You don't have jiggle effects when they move like you've had with the female characters.

Caminante Nocturno - 2016-06-09
That's because they don't have tits, you idiot.

memedumpster - 2016-06-09
You have to mod most games to get floppy dongs.

This is bullshit.

Mods are for PC crybabies, I want console dongs.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
>>Sure we have Zangeif and Seth, but they aren't sexually emphasized.


??? Says you. Maybe they don't seem sexual to YOU, but that's only because you're not gay. Zangief is clearly a bear fetish object, and Seth is completely naked!

Don't even get me started on: https://youtu.be/mX3RSiASrjc


Meme - you also have to mod games to get naked tits and exposed china. You CAN, however, see testicles in MK-X: https://youtu.be/EuAk2t5LC84?t=4s

memedumpster - 2016-06-09
I made a mistake making that joke, because it made me realize that every single male character I have ever played in a video game was a eunich with no dick and no sexuality.

I think gamers are probably super intimidated by masculinity, now that I think about it.

memedumpster - 2016-06-09
EH, you can mod some games for ballast and brush, but a ton of them come with that, shall we say, out of the box.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
Which games? I've rarely seen unmodded nipples in a non-porn game, land never unmodded china. Furthermore, the porn games which DO feature the fun bits out-of-the-box almost invariably include dongs, too.

As for sexually-virile, masculine characters, what about Kratos? Duke Nukem? Commander Shephard? Postal Dude? Leisure Suit Larry, Johnny Cage, Trevor from GTA, everyone from Saints Row, Lo Wang, etc etc etc

memedumpster - 2016-06-09
You mean like Age of Barbarian (which frustratingly wont show all of dudebarian ass or dudebarian broadsword and double morning star)?

memedumpster - 2016-06-09
Everyone on your list of masculine characters is a eunich by the game's own display of them. Even the (lamely, briefly) sexualized ones have no dude parts to speak of.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
Age of Barbarian is an abandonware indie game, and it doesn't show china OR nipples (at least on the woman; there are nipples on the man, which is an anti-male sexist doublestandard). Unless the game has been updated since I last saw it, the female barbarian wears pasties and a thong.

memedumpster - 2016-06-09
Of course she wears pasties, she's at war and needs ARMOR, duh. The rest of the npc chicks are all National Geographic Arkaddia.

The point is, dudes never show dong. This is wrong and due to male gamer unmasculinity.

Why are video games anti-masculine? Why do gamers require sterile male characters? This needs to be undressed for redress.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
Yes, no dongs, no china. Nipples on men but not women. That is the way of the world.

memedumpster - 2016-06-09
Video games have made you doubt the existence of breasts.

Paging Doctor That Guy, we need you in the ER...

That guy - 2016-06-09
*whooshing sound*
*That guy bursts in*
"DID SOMEONE CALL MY NAME?!?!"

Potrod - 2016-06-09
I'm out of the loop, what's That guy's deal with boobs.

memedumpster - 2016-06-10
Alien vampires got him.

Come to movie night, Potrod!

That guy - 2016-06-10
We had the filmic apex of breasts, and the filmic nadir of breasts in two different movies on the same movie night. It shook everyone, not just me. It was a real spine-rattler of a night.

Next week Lot is going to bring a de-sexing stick, and wave it around most unsexily.
The we'll get back to normal: riffing on shitty movies.

Old_Zircon - 2016-06-10
The other day I found an unlabeled VHS tape that turned out to be a 20 minute tape of a half dozen high school seniors in a class somewhere in coastal Massachusetts being lectured about the bible and morality, and I'm not afraid to use it if it comes to that.

Old_Zircon - 2016-06-10
I'd just like to point out the irony of the whole "SQW" thing in this context, because for me at least what bugs me about Anita isn't that what she's saying doesn't have merit (even if it is typically very simplistic), it's that she is as status quo as it gets.

Scrimmjob - 2016-06-09
Historically, has there been armor specifically designed for women? You see a lot of titty plate mail in movies and vidgams, but is there any real life basis for that stuff?
bawbag - 2016-06-09
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1vg4ha/are_there_a ny_historical_examples_of_female_armor/

William Burns - 2016-06-09
There's modern battle body armor for women right now.

glasseye - 2016-06-09
Armour that fits women looks very similar to armour for men, just with a slightly different shape to accommodate measurement differences. Boob cups get in the way when you're fighting, so flattening 'em down under a flatter breastplate works much better.

Caminante Nocturno - 2016-06-09
She's got an ugly rat face.
Monkey Napoleon - 2016-06-09
And also this type of criticism is purile whining. Purile whining that apparently makes you a millionaire.

Caminante Nocturno - 2016-06-09
She is on the same level as Ann Coulter, both in modus operandi and looks.

Gmork - 2016-06-09
you're rating it wrong

Xenocide - 2016-06-09
Oh no a girl thinks Street Fighter isn't perfect call the cops.

Anaxagoras - 2016-06-09
>> She's got an ugly rat face.

She complains that games display sexism by excessively focusing on female characters' beauty, and you respond by.... criticizing her beauty. Well done. You're a great example of exactly what's wrong. And you're too stupid to even notice.

>> And also this type of criticism is purile whining. Purile whining that apparently makes you a millionaire.

Yes, it was her plan all along to stir up the MRAs, get death threats, and have some people rally to her defense, all in the name of PROFITS. You've seen through her clever ruse.

BTW....it's puErile.

Caminante Nocturno - 2016-06-09
Would it have been better if I'd said that she looks like Fran Drescher's ugly sister?

Monkey Napoleon - 2016-06-09
Nobody comes off fantastic in video games, or media in general. Men are bombarded by stereotypes of either hyper-masculine 'roid freaks, or dopey clueless worms. Men who develop complexes about these stereotypes are labelled as psychotic or pathetic, while women are portrayed as tragic victims of circumstance.

The really galling thing about these insanely expensive youtube videos is that they perpetuate the REAL social problems women face: being conditioned to appeal to men to fix their problems for them.

Don't produce your couple of hours of youtube trash for the k or so every other company on the planet is able to shit on your production value for... Crowd fund it for a million bucks so you can quit your job and take 3 years to do 3 weeks tops worth of work singing obvious things with overstated impact to your white knight choir and don't, for even a second, consider doing something that might actually impact real women and real inequality problems like, oh I dunno, setting up a scholarship for women trying to get STEM degrees or something.

Eat shit.

Bobonne - 2016-06-09
The fact that she made so much money in the kickstarter is the direct result of people like you two.

How does that make you feel?

Monkey Napoleon - 2016-06-09
People like me who are skeptical of huckster slacktivists and only voice it on one tiny corner of the internet after the fact and only after being lumped in with people who make empty death threats after I mentioned that this might be bullshit?

I dunno, probably the same way you feel about being the same gender as Hitler.

Caminante Nocturno - 2016-06-09
I feel that Anita Sarkeesian looks like what would happen if Mrs. Brisby and Templeton the rat had a baby and it grew up to disappoint them.

But seriously, if it's true that a bunch of self-righteous suckers gave their money to a low-rent pundit out of reactive spite, then what I sincerely feel is smirking contempt.

It's the same kind of contempt I felt for people who gave their money to Sarah Palin, only Palin isn't quite as ugly.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
I think she's pretty. I also think Fran Drescher is pretty; prettier than Sarks, but that is not meant to marginalize poor Ms Anita, who is probably the more interesting conversationalist of the two.

That guy - 2016-06-09
I don't think it's fair to 1-star something like this

1) It deserves to be here and be talked about, at least until we determine (as a site) that Sarky is the same old shit over and over.
2) Quad9Damage didn't really editorialize in the Desc: except to mention that it might cause a shitshow of fag parades.
3) This sort of thing contributes to the site's ever-evolving education in shades of gray, though I'm not sure 2016 is The Year of Nuance, with Trump v Hilary being the two looming, shitty Bronze-Age style gods of our society.

Other than that, I'd side with Monkey Napoleon here.

>>Yes, it was her plan all along to stir up the MRAs, get death threats, and have some people rally to her defense, all in the name of PROFITS.

Anaxagoras, I don't think that's too far from the truth, phrase it as you may. She would have swapped real death threats for angry internet fist-shaking, that's about it.

That guy - 2016-06-09
Also, Bobonne, c'mon, seriously.

It's not fair or intelligent to paint all her critics with the same brush.

Potrod - 2016-06-09
Apropos of nothing, at times she's also come across as hilariously out of touch. Here's what she tweeted about the Doom trailer at e3: "It’s really troubling (and depressing) that the #BE3 audience is enthusiastically cheering for bodies being ripped apart."

Pretty much indistinguishable from the kind of mid '90s moral panic about games like the original Doom.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2016-06-10
In her video on objectification, Lacie Green says: "In a sane world, we'd all be objects part of the time, and subjects most of the time."

In other words, objectification, including objectification of women, isn't always bad. And pointing out that men are sometime objectified doesn't really prove anything. POE is way more sophisticated than the youtube comments, yet even here we're usually talking about a dumbed-down version of feminist principles.

Quad9Damage - 2016-06-10
Submitting a Sarkeesian video here has an effect equivalent to a clever troll's post. It evokes a massive number of back and forth responses, arguments and vitriol. My intent was not to troll or editorialize but promote discussion, though I debated submitting because I have seen what Feminist Frequency does to us as a community.

And Sarkeesian's power here astounds me. We will laugh together at some grainy Satanic Panic VHS rip; cringe together at pedotastic Family International propaganda; find different ways to express collective disgust over Chris-Chan pulling his cum out of the freezer or Corky leaving prison too early. But Sarkeesian gets us so polarized it threatens to create another Bo News.

As for my own opinion...I don't like her. I don't agree with the MRA movement, hate that the "she was asking for it" defense still makes it hard for rape victims to get justice, and do not think floods of rape/death threats are a tactful method of polite discourse, in the same sense that 50 different grown men making 50 different YouTube clips for every 1 Sarkeesian video is, at best, silly. But to me her calling for tits to be taken out of video games is no different than the Christian Right lighting pitchforks over Nipplegate in 2004 or otherwise telling grown adults they cannot consume what they damn well please. I don't like Sarkeesian because I don't like censorship, period, and the only difference between her and them is the color of her flag.

That guy - 2016-06-10
"sorry Quad, that's too nuanced, so I'm going to have to call you a manbaby"

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2016-06-10
I don't like her videos, partly because I don't care about video games, but I love Anita Sarkeesian, just for being the one person in all this who never seems angry, and for being the only person I know on the internet with the balls to put "FEMINIST " right there in the name of her channel.

I see her as a dedicated gamer who was in the closet about it before she started using criticism to reconcile taming gaming with feminism. She makes a point of encouraging viewers to go ahead and enjoy the culture she discusses. Feminists see sexism everywhere because, no shit, we're all the product of sexist concepts about gender, including feminists. Feminist criticism isn't necessarily about throwing out all of the babies with all of the bathwater. It can be about knowing what you're consuming when you're consuming culture.

That guy - 2016-06-10
^ CLASSIC

Gmork - 2016-06-09
"Women can't own their sexuality because MALE GAZE hurrrffff bluh"
Xenocide - 2016-06-09
A fictional character designed by men doing superhuman spinal contortions so she can shove her ass in your face is totally the same as women owning their sexuality.

Actually, I think the real problem here is the total lack of MEN owning their sexuality. Why doesn't Mario have all his adventures while wearing nothing but a thong and sporting a huge erection. Why is there no realistic jiggle animation for his hairy stomach after every jump. Why is there no unskippable cutscene between every level where he's slowly given a hot oil rubdown by Waliuigi. Why are game companies so filled with misandry.

memedumpster - 2016-06-09
Hah! I should have read before posting, I said something like that above.

If Solid Snake had an erection, even through his pants, just once, it would intimidate most male gamers into submissive urination and hiding from the product completely.

I think masculinity is actually the bigger social trigger of gamer fear. Sexualized women seem safe, like their mothers, while sexualized men remind them of their enervated social status, like their fathers probably did.

It would be neat if science studied this, but barring their time, it would be neat if psychology did.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
I'm guessing you haven't played much Metal Gear, Memedumpster, because the series is well-known for showcasing Solid Snake's ass and finding pretexts to get prettyboy Raiden naked.

In fact, Raiden has been far more naked than Quiet (both with and without his consent!), and so far as I know, this has never drawn complaint from anyone.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe2ZW4boNqE

Basically rape.

memedumpster - 2016-06-09
I see no evidence Raiden isn't female in this video (and those hips kind of argue that he is).

Some women have flat chests and NO MAN would hold their junk while stealthing through a room of armed assailants, you need those hands for Sinanju strikes.

He is a eunich, female, or extremely ashamed of his own masculinity, I rest my case.

Xenocide - 2016-06-09
No, you don't understand, Snake HAS to have this erection at all times or he'll die. It's part of his compelling backstory. Also he is weaponizing his sexuality to distract his enemies, because that would totally work in a real combat situation.

It took 270 hours to properly render every vein on Snake's testicles. That was a little longer than planned so to make up for it we decided the game didn't need a real ending.

memedumpster - 2016-06-09
Look at his body language as he runs around in shame.

He's a complete bottom dog when naked. Kojima's got some hangups.

memedumpster - 2016-06-09
If you want to cover up the Solider Snake, you can buy this DLC clothing pack.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
Well yes, *Raiden* is ashamed of his sexuality, but that's because he's a bishi-boi metrosexual archetype. He's one of those skinny, sensitive, chicky dudes that modern women - but no self-respecting gay men - tend to like. See also: Leon Kennedy, or every J-rpg protagonist ever.

And that's OK! There's room in video games for all kinds of overtly-sexualized, basically-raped male characters, just as there's room for all kinds of overtly-sexualized, basically-raped female characters. You can have your Raidens or your Kratos'es; you can have your Ivys or your Kings. It's all fine.

Xenocide - 2016-06-09
(PS: Also real talk: fifteen years later, gamerbros are still bitching about Raidan's presence in MGS2, going on about how he "ruined the game" because he's not a manly badass like Snake and also at one point they have to look at his butt. Like, MGS 2 is one of the best games of its generation but all you ever hear about it is people throwing tantrums over Raiden's inclusion.

All of which is to say, the assertion that Raidan's nudity has "never drawn complaint from anyone" is objectively ridiculous. Gamers were, and continue to be, incredibly threatened by a male character being treated the way most games treat women.)

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
People complained about Raiden because he was a crap character who was trying to usurp a beloved character's place - imagine replacing Sonic the Hedgehog with Winston the Wombat or some shit, of course people aren't going to like it! And I personally don't recall any complaints about Raiden basically getting raped - nor do I recall any games where a female protagonist gets stripped completely nude, tortured, and then forced to run naked around an enemy base for comedic effect. The *closest* I can think of is maybe Quiet's torture scene, but she isn't stripped naked, and at any rate, brutal torture scenes have been as common in MGS as moving platforms are in Mario Brothers.

memedumpster - 2016-06-09
EvilHomer on Raiden : *link to nude Raiden* "Basically rape."

EvilHomer twenty seconds later : "And I personally don't recall any complaints about Raiden basically getting raped"

You need to stand nude in front of a mirror for a while and tell yourself it's okay, EvilHomer. Video games have made you hate masculinity, and you need an intervention.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
I'm not complaining about Raiden getting basically raped, I'm just pointing out what it is. I am merely "generating discussion". You are free to draw your own inferences, positive or negative, regarding rape culture from the information I provide.

Scrimmjob - 2016-06-09
I for one, am all for oversexed thong Mario. Also all for Solid Snake getting a huge noticeable boner whenever he snaps someones neck.

memedumpster - 2016-06-09
Solid Snake would know to weaponize his sexuality and just stop wearing a uniform. In true Metal Gear fashion, there would be extended cutscenes of a naked Solid Snake trying to get an armed cyborg assassin to look at his schlong. The cutscene would go on for ten minutes of dialog about philosophy, war, and the meaning of life, ending in the enemy glancing down and immediately dying when Solid Snake knifes them in the throat.

Later in the game, a first person mini game kicks in where you have to talk to a naked assassin without moving the camera down, or you get knifed immediately.

Video game designers are fucking lazy. I just shat this out my Id.

baleen - 2016-06-09
exaggerated male sexuality drips from pulp fantasy and art and always has.
this level of feminist commentary is so boring and out of touch with the shit that actually matters.

Gmork - 2016-06-09
"A fictional character designed by men doing superhuman spinal contortions so she can shove her ass in your face is totally the same as women owning their sexuality."

Where exactly do you see me saying that?

Not to mention it's up to the individual woman to decide what is or isn't empowering for them based on how something makes them feel. Are you speaking for a fictional character now? I wasn't even talking about specifically Bayonetta, although it certainly applies.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
In regards to Ivy Valentine: none of the characters in the Soul series, save for Siegfried (a man) and Hildegard (a woman), wear anything even approaching reasonable body armor. Bloodrayne is a vampire who goes up against undead Nazi demons against whom armor would be ineffective; same applies to Bayonetta. Lara Croft spends most of her time climbing and jumping across chasms (good luck doing that in armor!) while the heavily armored, male Gears of War characters she cites have equally heavily armored, female counterparts, like so:

http://tinyurl.com/jza7r3f
glasseye - 2016-06-09
Wearing armour isn't nearly as cumbersome as most people imagine. It's akin to wearing a heavy backpack; furthermore, a modern soldier carries MORE weight than an armoured knight did. Yes, armour slows you down a little, but a well-fitted suit does not limit your mobility much at all (they were used for fighting, duh). It raises your center of gravity a few inches, and it's obviously a bit more work than running about unarmoured... but pretty much anything a modern soldier can do while wearing their gear an armoured knight could do.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
You're talking about Lara, right? The body armor I was familiar with weighed about 30lbs; maybe you're highspeed, but I for one certainly wouldn't want to wear it while parkouring in the Himalayan mountains. Also, it wouldn't provide any meaningful protection against tigers, panthers, dinosaurs, or anyone from the cast of Roar - which make up the bulk of Lara Croft's opponents. Heck, even Drake - who fights far more regular-guy soldiers-armed-with-guns than Lara does - only ever goes tomb raiding while wearing a shirt and pants! Which makes sense, because while armor is typically designed to provide a good mixture of comfort, mobility, and protection for reasonably short periods of time, it is NOT (and never has been) designed to be worn for prolonged stretches - like, during the entirety of a three-day trip to the Lost Temple of Azlaztl.

glasseye - 2016-06-09
I was speaking generally about armour. Cartwheels, somersaults, and jumps are all doable in a well-fitted suit. Obviously one won't jump as far or as fast, but the idea that armour makes one into a lumbering tank is just totally bogus.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
I never said it'd make girls into a lumbering tank, just that in Lara's (and Drake's) case, she won't be able to handle the extreme acrobatic scenarios she's typically forced to deal.

StanleyPain - 2016-06-09
I'm surprised she didn't get further into the Quiet issue here. She rightly points out that the manbabies usually try to make up purile, shallow excuses for why this sexism is somehow "strong" or "owning sexuality" for these characters, when of course that is generally never true of fictional sex-bots made by infants *for* infants.
But, Quiet is an interesting example because, as most SQW-types will quickly point out, she is physically based on an actual, real-person who works at Konami who apparently has no problem with how her body was turned into a literal sex toy in the game. So, we get a lot of the logical fallacy that just because she herself isn't offended, it means there's nothing wrong with it, which is almost an entire video unto itself.
In any case, this is yet another video where her points are totally reasonable and backed up by considerable evidence but of course the responses are just mewling little idiots whose pee-pees are afraid of women with opinions. I subscribe to this channel and less than an hour after this video there were already response videos 2-3 times longer than the original video itself. Glad all those blubbering MRA heroes actually *watched* the video.
Anaxagoras - 2016-06-09
I'm not that surprised she didn't go into that topic. All the videos of hers that I've seen seem to be discussions of fairly basic & obvious points; she rarely seem to tackle the more subtle (and more interesting) topics.

I don't know if that's because she's not that bright or because she's just doing an overview-style series, and she's setting the "start here" bar a little too low. Of course, given the amount of shit she gets for what she *does* discuss, maybe she's setting the bar right where it needs to be.

Either way, good on her for sticking to her guns & continuing to do these videos in the face of all the harassing shitbirds. I don't care much for her videos, but the reaction she gets makes it clear that the videos are sorely needed.

Quad9Damage - 2016-06-09
Lucca: It appears to be a female video game character. Incredible! I think I can fix her.
Marle: What!? Won't she take her shirt off?
Lucca: I'll make sure she won't. Female video game characters aren't capable of choosing what they wear. Presumed straight male game designers dress them that way.
Marle: Lucca, you...pity their sexualization, don't you?
Lucca: Let me put a poncho over her, okay?
Sanest Man Alive - 2016-06-09
It's fine. King was hotter than Mai Shiranui anyway.

While we're on the subject, Oneechanbara Z2 just landed on Steam. Looks like fun!
Xenocide - 2016-06-09
Gamerbros: Oh when will people start to take gaming seriously as an art form?

Goddamn Adults: All art forms are subject to social criticism.

Gamerbros: Oh when will people start to take gaming seriously as an art form that is magically exempt from all serious analysis?
Cena_mark - 2016-06-09
Every video she releases brings about a flood of crocodile tears from the gamer gators.
EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
I didn't feel swift today, so I'm taking an off day to recover. And it is not a waste. I have been in a meditative state, self reflecting and pondering. Among which, I have realized among my problems is lack of better self-motivation. In my subconscious are all of my fears and stresses. My creations, reputation, and life in general, are all still being met with mixed results; the bad half lingers. And at home, something that leaves me with a shock is inevitable, which drains me more quickly if the severity is high. And I find myself also stuck in a rut where I could be doing more work here, but something else comes up, or my ADD throws me a mental curveball towards a different focal point.

So, the question that I am still pondering: how do I better self-motivate, keep my waking energy focused on the required tasks that have yet to be completed at hand from creation, and how do I keep my set on blocking out stressed reactions to random inputs that would cause such?

Your answer may be "Just Do It", but with a creative mind with fickle energies and moods/emotions that are prone to easy distraction and drain, that Is the weakness set. And therefore the most difficult to pinpoint, identify and reprogram the mind to heal and counter all of that.

To put it in a way I believe you may relate with: your daily work in front of a computer with tasks simple to you with prior educations... Charts and Graphs that you have created with details of the company you work for. It all went smoothly for you. But, suddenly, you are met with a shock! Your lover has left you for another and will never return? The rent is Past Due with Final Notice? There is illness or maybe a death in the family? Or maybe your own mind has fallen into a dark void of being lost, blank and confused beyond your own belief and understanding for hardly a noticeable reason. The following day at your job, you sit there; looking at your monitor, but you are barely able to function, even while your own mind is conscious, stuck in a constant observation-only function. You feel like you can hardly move or think.

I do understand Everyone has their own set of stresses. And among the creative types who feel this way as well, I have been stuck, waiting for that recovery and inspiration to finally return, so we can Feel and Have the energy we each Require to Create in our own way!

I do wish it was "Bob's your uncle" quick and easy for the mental and emotional recovery for me. But it's not. And the remains of the Autism aren't helping much either.

Cena_mark - 2016-06-09
What's with the long CWC post?

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
Non-violent revolution via civil disobedience. CWC posts are the best cure for Sarks, I find. That and pony fanfics.

memedumpster - 2016-06-09
Video games have stripped Homie of his masculinity, so he spams with CWC stuff. You see, SPAM is a soft, spongy, generally less than virile meat product, and not at all like a rigid, manly, Solid Snake Jumbo Sausage with Dripping Sauce.

Men need healing, Cena, but I fear there may not be enough manliness left to go around.

Cena_mark - 2016-06-09
Pony fanfics usually work better for me, as then I'll start talking about the show and how awful Fluttershy is for how she treated her struggling brother.
But come on, at least admit that my line about gamer gators was brilliant.

memedumpster - 2016-06-09
Between gamer gators and SQW's, you have been on quite a tear recently.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
That is to say, so many people get so mad at each other that I find it's usually better to maintain distance, and remind my friends that there is more to life than social dissolution by way of dumb cultural proxy wars. CWC is one such uniting influence. CWC reminds us of who we truly are.

I was at work today, and I met a man with no arms and no legs. He had a little stump with a hook that he could use to steer his electric wheelchair, and that's about it. He was sad about his family and couldn't look his grandson in the eyes, because he feared he was becoming a burden for his loved ones. He does not care about fat bald-o gamergaters, or CGI women who are way too sexy and need to cover up right now.

It's like Demonius-X told poeTV the other day: life is short and precious. We need to cherish our time, and savour our happiness while we can.

(but yes, "gamer gators" and "crocodile tears" was pretty funny)

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
Meme - CA, not vidya, has stripped me of my masculinity. She is the Delilah to my Samson. I shaved off my beard, started growing my hair long again, and am seriously considering sneaking into an all-female yacht race next month by dressing drag.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
Incidentally, Cena, this is the fanfic HumanFluttershy has been asking me to read:

https://youtu.be/5-iUbuoVsvg

You might enjoy it. Rainbow Dash survives, Applejack does not.

Cena_mark - 2016-06-09
I like your outlook on life Homer, but we come here to argue these proxy culture wars. Arguing and debating isn't always negativity. It can open people to new ideas. It was the constant arguing here that opened me up to new ideas and turned me into the awesome enlightened liberal that I am today.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-09
Well, we COULD argue, but in order to argue properly and productively, we must be careful to remain polite and receptive to new ideas. Both of these things tend to break down pretty quickly once gators and reverse-SQWs enter the picture!

memedumpster - 2016-06-09
We're not arguing, we're agreeing that video games should contain full human nudity and integrated sexual expression without shame and even, dare say, comedy and affection.

We have found a consensus that all gaming culture has failed to live up to.

We're awesome.

Potrod - 2016-06-09
I mean I'm assuming cena_mark is just playing a role anyway, the heel-face turn. I wonder what his next move will be.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-10
Yes, I'd agree with that Meme. Games need more sex, not less. (and I really suggest you check out Saints Row, as it comes closest to the ideal you are looking for)

MacGyver Style Bomb - 2016-06-09
"And now here's my 30 minute rebuttal video where I spend most of the time pointing out some trivial fact she got incorrect, acting like this destroys anything she ever said. You can help me fight these professional victims by subscribing to my channel so I get the ad revenue and also donating to my Patron."
NewHeavenSockman - 2016-06-09
she's so sex-negative it hurts, but five for the unfailing hilarity her videos bring to this site
bawbag - 2016-06-09
Criticising objectification, overt sexualisation and exploitation doesn't imply any sex-negativity imho.

Sarkeesian is no Dworkin, she is, if anything a post-feminist making some rather uncontroversial critiques as regards the portrayal of women in videogames rather than saying 'all sex is rape' or the like.

Old_Zircon - 2016-06-09
Dworkin was no Dworkin most of the time from what bits I've picked up, a lot of the most damning stuff was taken out of context.

And there's plenty of deeply problematic "sex positive" stuff out there.

Bobonne - 2016-06-09
Pretty much. Dworkin is an excellent example of how a comprehensive smear campaign can permanently fix a person's place in history, despite there being very little truth to the "facts".

Don't get me wrong, I'm fairly sure Dworkin had some issues, and she wasn't right about everything, but the actual woman and her work bears little resemblance to what people think of when they hear her name today.

bawbag - 2016-06-09
Dworkin has lots misattributed to her 'All sex is rape' is the usual one, that she never actually stated.

I think it's fair to describe her -at least from an academic or feminist perspective- as a sex-negative feminist though.

For example:
"Intercourse remains a means or the means of physiologically making a woman inferior [and is] the pure, sterile, formal expression of men’s contempt for women." —Andrea Dworkin, Intercourse, 1987

or

“The oppression of women occurs through sexual subordination. It is the use of sex as the medium of oppression that makes the subordination of women so distinct from racism or prejudice against a group based on religion or national origin. In the subordination of women, inequality itself is sexualized: made into the experience of sexual pleasure, essential to sexual desire. Pornography is the material means of sexualizing inequality; and that is why pornography is a central practice in the subordination of women.” - Dworkin, Against the Male Flood.

dairyqueenlatifah - 2016-06-09
Lingerie is Not Armor.

Video games are not real life.

Sarkeesian is a con who doesn't actually give a shit about feminism or the suffering of women.
Old_Zircon - 2016-06-09
Sounds like she should run for President!

Rafiki - 2016-06-09
In this video I discuss how fictional outfits and body armor that were never designed to be realistic and practical are both unrealistic and impractical.

Next week I look at how the super powers of comic book characters are unrealistic and often wildly dangerous, and how they defy both physics and biology. Then we'll take a look at how no man-made fabric could display that kind of muscle definition in a costume.

Later I'll delve into the setups of sex scenes in porn movies and how absurd they are, as if a woman would have sex with the pizza boy because he suggestively asked if she wanted extra sausage.

Finally, are fat people too sexy in feeder porn? I'll discuss why including skinny people can help set a more realistic standard of obesity.

I ask the tough questions on why entertainment is too often entertaining to the target audience and alienating to not the target audience. Please like and subscribe to my video series "Critiquing Things Out of Context for People Too Dumb to Notice."
Gmork - 2016-06-09
Basically.

Spaceman Africa - 2016-06-09
The context for Ivy's outfit being I wanna see those titties already

Hooker - 2016-06-09
Jesus Christ, what a fuckin' wall.

A good friend of mine worked on this video, apparently. She briefly posted here.

I didn't watch it.
memedumpster - 2016-06-09
To be fair to the wall, we made sure most of it is dick jokes.

Fezren - 2016-06-09
I don't consider Anita to be a critic. She's just a hater. Awww, poor baby doesn't like the games.

I've met a lot of female gamers over the years. I can't think of a single one who ever mentioned disliking how females were portrayed in the game. In fact, given a choice, most female gamers I've met actually choose sexualized character appearance options. Ever played Second Life?
Cena_mark - 2016-06-09
A lot of people on the internet who call themselves critics only discuss media they don't like.

Fezren - 2016-06-09
I don't consider them critics either.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2016-06-10
Are you really suggesting she never says anything positive about games? That's just not remotely true.

I'm convinced that no one actually watches these videos, and that's why no one seems to know whats actually in them. After all, they're boring as hell.

Fezren - 2016-06-10
No I'm not implying that. And I'm certainly not the guy who comments on things without watching it.

Imagine if Siskel and Ebert, as zombies or w/e, decided that from now on, they were only going to review movies that contain action scenes featuring gun violence. And all they were going to talk about was the gun violence part of movies, and how bad gun ownership is. Sure, they might praise some other film once in a great while for not having gun violence. In my opinion, they wouldn't be critics anymore. At least, not by the definition that I assume everyone is using when they say "critic". They'd just be two haters with an agenda.

Spaceman Africa - 2016-06-09
video games
SolRo - 2016-06-09
SQW tears.
Fezren - 2016-06-09
Fainting church ladies.

Nominal - 2016-06-09
This deserves about as much serious discussion as male characters in romance/tween books having no existence beyond doting 24/7 to the whims of the female protagonist where every man is reduced to his value as a servant. If sexy girls = objectification, then you could call what's done to men in those books "commodification". Can you imagine how trifling of a complaint that would sound like? (2nd part to this: why aren't impossibly chiseled, bare chested men and bosom popping ladies on romance novel covers just as PROBLEMATIC?)

They're both dumb fantasies for their audiences. Any reaction beyond rolling your eyes and choosing not to consume the media (or god forbid, set a better example yourself) makes one no better than Christian pearl clutchers like The Catholic League. Seriously, check out their newsletter sometime. They have sections devoted to movies/TV that read exactly like this stuff. This stuff turns boys into wife-beaters as much as D&D turned them into Satan worshipers.

Someone please explain the end goal here because I've always found it transparently dishonest. There's already a choice of games that avoid cheap titillation just as there are novels that aren't Twilight or Harlequin, so the only goal left is, "This thing I don't like shouldn't be allowed to exist."

Does it even need to be said why that's a terrible pursuit? Please explain what other possible goal this movement could have. Before you do, answer honestly if you WOULD support banning these games.

Let's keep it constructive rather than chiding, "Manbabies scared Anita is coming to take their copy of Dragon's Crown."
Spaceman Africa - 2016-06-10
we should definitely ban these games

memedumpster - 2016-06-10
What if games had a "shame sensitivity" slider that piled on or removed clothes from the characters? I always turn off music in video games, why not turn off clothing?

What is clothing on a thing that isn't real? It's like covering a statue.

Full disclosure, I did not watch the video and I don't care what she says in the video, so long as it results in full frontal Solid Snake.

SolRo - 2016-06-10
I think the difference between men objectifying women and women commoditizing men is the impact it has when it's in a medium targeted at children and teens that to some extent forms their view what the opposite sex should be and how to behave towards them.

In that regard, you must consider which is the more dangerous idea to plant - that men will be your waify man servants or that women are sex objects to be used as such.

The power dynamic plays into this as well...in general, a woman wont be able to force a man to be a subservient poetry writer while a man can quite easily overpower and assault a woman.

memedumpster - 2016-06-10
I don't know if I buy the premise that witnessing oppression in a video game would have a different result in the brain than witnessing it in a movie, or in real life (beyond knowing it wasn't real). It comes dangerously close to the idea that video games are a special class of media outside the generally understood to be weak-to-none power of other entertainment media to change us.

What would set a video game apart?

memedumpster - 2016-06-10
I also don't know about the idea that men always use brute force to overcome a woman, and a woman has no power that men do not give away. The bathroom thing taught me that Kentucky does do some shit different than everyone else, so maybe this state alone has a plethora of women that beat the stone cold shit out of men all the time, and the rest of you live in some kind of pugilist patriarchy.

SolRo - 2016-06-10
Sorry, I just read 'anecdote disproves statistics and biological reality', is that correct?

memedumpster - 2016-06-10
Show us on your fist where the woman's face hurt you, SolRo.

I don't like learning that you get your sense of power from an entitlement to brutalize women at your leisure, and only see women as a voluntary extension of your grace.

That may be a sticking point.

memedumpster - 2016-06-10
"A woman wont be able to force a man to be a subservient poetry writer while a man can quite easily overpower and assault a woman."

Is objectively bullshit.

memedumpster - 2016-06-10
"biological reality"

And god damn does this term piss me off.

You sound like my bigot fucking father.

He was a moron.

EvilHomer - 2016-06-10
It depends on the woman, really. Women in general might not be able to "force" me to be their subservient poetry writer, but I could certainly be convinced to become one voluntarily.

Meme - your father fucked bigots?

Rafiki - 2016-06-10
Vote Mayor Mike Haggar for the Pugilist Patriarchy Party.

Gmork - 2016-06-10
People who use videogames rather than real life to formulate their views and behavior towards women are fucking retarded to begin with.

It's like worrying that watching a violent movie will make you violent. What a terrible argument, SolRo.

SolRo - 2016-06-10
It's not a worry, it's an observed and studied reaction that people have to media, be it movies, shows or video games.

Now the argument that "only stupid people are affected so it doesn't matter" is a stupid argument

Gmork - 2017-06-09
Good thing I never made that argument.

Also, you just used a train of logic that agrees with the statement "violent media makes people violent". Good job.

misterbuns - 2016-06-10
Video games are gross and weird toward women.

holy fuck why is this a debate.

i can't even....why do you....what are you even talking about.

WHY DONT YOU HAVE LIVES?
Jeriko-1 - 2016-06-10
I stopped playing games years ago when hearing the other person's voice became not optional. Listening to some 12 year old hiss racial and sexual epithets through his braces? Not my thing. I can't even imagine the irritation of being female and having to go through that. Fuck the current status of competitive play and double fuck the 'eSports' industry for just deciding that was just how gamers roll and encouraging it.

misterbuns - 2016-06-10
people are writing NOVELS in this thread. NOVELS. about NOTHING.

Old_Zircon - 2016-06-10
I stopped playing most games in the early 2000s because I've got better things to spend money on than graphics cards.

Old_Zircon - 2016-06-10
"misterbuns
people are writing NOVELS in this thread. NOVELS. about NOTHING."


Kind of a crowdsourced James Joyce.

SolRo - 2016-06-11
It's called a hobby.

A hobby doesn't have to be productive or beneficial to someone.


Don't tell me you're one of those idiots that thinks everyone of a certain age is only normal if they go out partying constantly and switch to weekend gatherings after they get older....I hope you're not that tedious.

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