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Desc:National Geographic joins the debate.
Category:Educational, Military
Tags:katana, national geographic, vikings, Ulfberht, trashy american television documentaries
Submitted:EvilHomer
Date:07/27/16
Views:811
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Comment count is 20
bawbag - 2016-07-27
lol so this so called superior viking sword was made with iranian steel. Thats like boasting about the power of american muscle cars that use engines from italy. The katana is definitely not an overrated sword. Each blade has thousands layers and incorporates two different types of steel which give it both flexibility and hardness.
bawbag - 2016-07-27
""

William Burns - 2016-07-27
Europeans were using that method 2000 years before the Japanese, then switched to superior Persian metallurgy. By the time of Samurais, they were using even better alloys.

EvilHomer - 2016-07-27
Exactly what William Burns said. The Ulfberht Swords were actually made right on the cusp between pattern-welded steel and the better-quality steel of Persian metallurgy - different examples were made using different techniques, but the earliest ones were often crafted in much the same way as katanas - except the Ulfberhts had better steel, were more competently folded, and were made hundreds of years before the katana's heyday.

Basically, the Japanese were stuck using techniques that Roman-Era Celts had mastered and then moved on from. The Ulfberhts represent a pinnacle of hybrid pattern-welding technology that the katanas *might* have one day reached, but if, and only if, Japan's master swordsmiths had been given another thousand years with which to develop their art.

bawbag - 2016-07-27
'The Ulfberhts represent' a niche vanity weapon for the ultra-rich that were made in vanishingly small numbers, with imported ore.

The katana has killed more enemies in history, thus it is the more effective sword. Plus, no viking corpses were ever found on a japanese battlefield, so obviously the vikings even knew not to fuck with a people carrying a sword that could cut absolutely anything in twain.

Jeez EH, this stuff is obvious.

William Burns - 2016-07-27
If executions count as legit battlefield kills, then I nominate the guillotine as the greatest sword of all time.

EvilHomer - 2016-07-27
Hundreds of Ulfberhts have been found in graves all across Northern Europe. That is not a "vanishingly small" number, particularly for artifacts that are so old. What's more, the finds obviously represent only a small fraction of the total number of Ulfberhts existent in history - the finds tended to be grave-goods, unearthed in wealthy pagan burial grounds. That does NOT mean that only the wealthy or only the pagans owned such swords; rather, it is simply what we'd expect for any type of popular sword, given the burial customs of the (increasingly Christian) times.

But yes, they WERE a niche weapon of sorts. That niche was "swords which were actually the best, wielded by warriors who were actually the best". Unlike the katana, which was a slovenly weapon for slovenly people, right up until Hideyoshi, desiring an island of obedient slaves, took everyone's toys away from them.

bawbag - 2016-07-27
Ah, but the guillotine is a blade on a rope or chain which makes it more of a chain/rope weapon than a sword.

bawbag - 2016-07-27
"Hundreds of Ulfberhts have been found in graves all across Northern Europe. That is not a "vanishingly small" number, particularly for artifacts that are so old."

Hundreds, compared with the many many thousands of allegedly 'inferior steel' weapons found in Japan (and thus there are even more not found!), a design so perfect it slaughtered enemies of Japan for 1000 years while the ulfbros were still digging iron lumps out of bogs to make their vanity sidearms to look cool while plain, boring axes were the main weaponry of their inferior selection of armaments.

Pfft, even the humble Tachi killed more than the elfbreadht scrub sword.

William Burns - 2016-07-27
And the Portuguese made mincemeat of the Japanese with their superior rapiers. This is a much more logical comparison than the Vikings, who predated Samurai by 1000 years.

Cena_mark - 2016-07-28
I'm aware Mr. Burns (Evilhomer) that Europeans also developed a folded steel method, but they didn't use it to make katanas. The Japanese perfected the sword, and thus didn't change their swords after that.

Cena_mark - 2016-07-28
Also Evilburns, the whole Portuguese thing is bullshit. Japan was never defeated by Portugal. Those slaves were sold to the Portuguese. They were already prisoners of Japan's ongoing civil wars. The idea that the Portuguese defeated Samurai and took them as prisoners is ludicrous. Stop spreading this nonsense.

William Burns - 2016-07-28
I will stop spreading my misremembered history if you stop spreading this vicious lie that I am Evil Homer. I am Mr. Snrub.

Yes, that's it.

EvilHomer - 2016-07-27
1:30 - 3:20

That's the thesis statement. Be sure to watch that part, if nothing else.
bawbag - 2016-07-27
Clemens 'master swordsman' pfffffffff.

Also expending 2-3x the amount of energy to make a janky cut versus the katana which can literally cut a tank in half with no effort.

EH, it's ok that you're wrong.

EvilHomer - 2016-07-27
A blunt bastard sword does more damage than the sharpest of all katanas. You saw the video evidence, it is irrefutable proof.

Cena_mark - 2016-07-28
The tests that Mail Call and Deadliest Warrior did prove otherwise.

William Burns - 2016-07-28
Mail Call debunked here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5tuklPjtAU

Deadliest Warrior debunked, just generally.

EvilHomer - 2016-07-28
During the 1970s, R Lee Ermy was captured by the Viet Cong, brainwashed, and turned into an Asian supremacist sleeper-agent.

Anything he says about Japan needs to be treated with the proper degree of skepticism and ridicule.

Lef - 2016-07-28
This was metal!
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