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Desc:How the fuck did we get here.
Category:News & Politics
Tags:4chan, Pepe, rachel maddow, /pol/, pepe the frog
Submitted:Albuquerque Halsey
Date:09/17/16
Views:1271
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Comment count is 41
Gmork
Like I needed any more proof that people who use "dank memes" are fucking retarded, full stop.
Bobonne
Yes.

That guy
haha

not sure if serious

Bobonne
Has anyone ever elevated a discussion of anything, ever, by posting a meme, dank or otherwise, into it?

It's literally like running into the middle of a crowd, waving your arms and verbally screaming for people to look at you, while they're trying to talk about something.

It contributes nothing, and only draws attention to how very little you actually have to add to any discourse.

Even a fucking 4chan thread on an actual topic of interesting discussion (so, outside of half the boards) gains nothing by someone posting a fucking played out meme in the middle, as if it were original, insightful, or thought-provoking.

Gmork
RIP in pepperoni
[blank] is love, [blank] is life
Hi, I'm Rick Harrison, and this is my pawn shop.
salty
[blank] is cancer
^
I feel very, very small… please hold me…
C’mon, Mom! One more game before you tuck me in. Oops mistell
I could really use a hug right now.
It’s past my bedtime. Please don’t tell my mommy.
I’m wrestling with some insecurity issues in my life but thank you for playing with me.
I’m trying to be a nicer person. It’s hard, but I’m trying, guys.

Gmork
and so forth

Born in the RSR
I just want to say that i misread the title as "Pope on Maddow" and upon seeing the description I was like: "What? She's a proper journalist she's popular she can get the Pope for 10 minutes, why all the hate, guy?"

I pressed play and was completely blindsided by the actual story. Fucking hell.
Chancho
Feels good man
Spit Spingola
All Pepe ever wanted to do was pee with his pants down around his ankles.

Jeriko-1
Even worse now the poor bastard that made the Boy's Town comic to begin with now has his creations forever labeled as racist. Forever branded as an 'alt-right cartoonist'.

Feels bad, man.

Bobonne
Man, I still remember the host of "Feels good man" sprays we had on TF2 nights with poe-can't-aim.

Fuckin' pol.

Caminante Nocturno
If I believed that journalism had any respectability left to lose, I would be disappointed by this.
Pillager
Heil Frog?
Caminante Nocturno
Der Froschführer.

Anaxagoras
"If this is the way they are operating [giving a knowing wink to the racist far right] they can not win. They can't."

Fuck you, Maddow. You supposedly have a degree in poli sci, you supposedly have studied American history, so you should fucking know by now that this is a white supremacist nation. Always has been. Saying "they can not win" is a level of self delusion to which you're not entitled.
Bobonne
One could interpret that as 'they must not win', or 'they can not (be allowed to) win'.

But yes, complacency at this point is deserving of the most bitter scorn possible, particularly with the rest of the media working so hard to make it a proper horse race.

Anaxagoras
True enough. But there's also an element of disbelief in her statements. White people (especially middle class white people) seem to have a serious problem accepting just how rotten America is, and always has been.

Oh sure, we had slavery, and lynchings, and all the rest of it, but all of that was from a previous era. Except for the things that are happening in our current era, which are shocking and came out of nowhere. This "I am shocked!" song and dance is getting kind of old.

Chancho
(((Anaxagoras)))

dairyqueenlatifah
Oh yeah, we're such a fucking white supremacist nation that we elected a black president twice.

bawbag
Except you know, he's half white you fucking dumbass.

Gmork
To your garden variety racist, being half black is just as bad. Not sure what your point is.

bawbag
Just that america has never elected a 'black president' as he's biracial.

You're right that a common or garden racist views him only as 'black' though.

That guy
"this is a white supremacist nation"

What would make a statement like that true or false, Anax??

Anaxagoras
You can determine if a nation is white supremacist by looking at the institutions the nation possesses and seeing if they consistently & institutionally favor whites. If they do, then look at the history of those institutions. Do they favor whites by accident (e.g. A simple process of favoring those who were already here) or was the discrimination intentional? Finally, look at current attempts to reform those institutions. If the society is amenable to reforming the institutions so that they're more equitable, then the society is longer white supremacist. If, on the other hand, you get vociferous, violent conflict, then the nation is still a white supremacist nation.

Of course, it's not a binary. We're less bad than we used to be. But we're still a white supremacist nation, even though few whites consciously think "I'm better than those negros" anymore.

That guy
I get your point but I don't know about the rhetorical overstatement of it.

1) name some countries that aren't _____ supremacists.
Any one that you might name (let's say Sweden) is bound to be less heterogeneous than the US or France or the UK. I don't know much about the demographics of Indonesia, but I'm positive that they're muslim supremacists. How is that any less shitty?
Comparing to other nations is fairly important.

2) If you want to say something like 'equal protection under the law is a sham', I'd say it's a semi-sham. It's nowhere near equal but it's nowhere near apartheid either. 'Rich' is probably more important than 'white', ultimately.

3) I usually think that the base statement that ones like yours boil down to is that 'humans are an ugly animal'. I do think there are particular, horrible problems that need immediate change. But I don't think the end of the day story is that 'white supremacy' is the root cause of all ills.
Especially given advances in psychology in the last few decades, this is a really naive thing to believe.

Anaxagoras
That guy, i sincerely love when you number your thoughts/responses on longer answers. It makes it easier to respond.

1) Actually, Sweden is showing signs of being white supremacist. But Canada is a good example of a nation that isn't white supremacist. That's not to say they don't have racial problems. Their relationship with the First Nations is.... problematic, to put it politely. But they've by-and-large embraced a multiracial model for their country.

You're right that comparison to other countries is important, and there are few examples as good as Canada. But when you compare us to other countries, I don't think we come out looking too good. In many ways we're better than many other countries thanks to our robust economy and our history of political stability. (A history which might be coming to an end, actually.) But I think our relationship to race is worse than most, thanks to how slavery was baked into our culture from the very beginning.

2) I used to think that "rich" is way more important than "white", and it might be. But I'm not so sure anymore. I've seen too many studies & examples where blacks suffer just because they're black, and no amount of money would have helped. (e.g. police brutality) But you might be right. I just don't know.

3) You're right; white supremacy isn't the root cause of everything. But it's probably safe to say that it permeates most things, even if it's not always immediately obvious. And more importantly, regardless of how many ills it causes, I think it's safe to say that it's a thing. And it's a thing that whites knee-jerk object to because they don't like to think they support or benefit from such a system. But we whites do benefit, whether we like to admit it or not. And I think that's an important point to call out.

That guy
1) You think our relationship to race is *worst* than most? Have you traveled much? Do you know what people in other countries are like about race?? We're far more 'put to the test', (like France or the UK are) than most other countries. People are just openly racist as fuck in most countries. You gotta be kidding me on this one.

2) We're both shrugging on this one. Probably 'rich' is better inside the courtroom, and 'white' is better out?

3) I should have been more specific. What I meant by 'white supremacy' basically boils down to 'humans are nasty' is that there is a default amount of racism in the average human mind. Whites are no different from the rest of humanity on this. It isn't a white trait, it's a human trait.

That guy
This entails all kinds of politically uncomfortable things to think about, but there's no escaping it, I hope you'd agree. Some percent of any group are complete supremacists for their group.

love
does nobody remember the last election?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOJreyDEqqY
Binro the Heretic
Donald Trump is a lower-middle-class White guy who happens to have a lot of money. That's how he connects so well and so easily with other lower-middle-class White guys.

Now, of course, not all lower-middle-class white guys are bad, but for the longest time in this country, lower-middle-class White guys were taught that it was not only okay for them to be hateful, racist, misogynist assholes, but that it was their God-given RIGHT to be hateful, racist misogynist assholes. It didn't matter that women, non-Whites, non-Christians and LGBTs got the shit end of the stick. Those people are SUPPOSED to get the shit end of the stick because White guys are so much better than them.

Trump know how to tap into that anger and fear because he feels it himself. He can sense the tide turning against people like him. In the not-too-distant past, there was a comfortable middle class who, for the most part, didn't care about inequity or injustice. But now their comforts are gone.

Some realize the fault lies with greedy privileged people who, for sake of their own profits, have deprived the middle class of good jobs with decent pay while at the same time poaching tax dollars that should be used to make everyone's lives better. Many, however, choose to blame the people they used to be able to abuse so freely.

Trump know this and he knows just what to say to get them on his side.

If you can't find a job, it's obviously the fault of that Mexican who overstayed their visa to work in the country illegally, right? It's not the fault of the employer paying the Mexican under the table because it's cheaper for them. Sure, you could have that Mexican's job if you were willing to work just as cheap, but that's lowly and demeaning for a White guy, right?

If you can't find a girlfriend, it's obviously the fault of the feminazis who teach all women to hate men, right? It's not because you're immature or obnoxious. It's not because you expect to find a woman who exists to serve your needs while you ignore hers. That whole "partnership" concept is unreasonable. You shouldn't be expected to give, only receive. That's how it was in the old days and everyone was happy, right?

If you don't make enough money, it's obviously the fault of all those Black people collecting welfare, right? It's not because your employer is a greedy soulless corporation that puts the bottom line above the needs of their employees. The government takes your hard-earned money and just gives it away to lazy Black women who churn our kid after kid just to get a bigger paycheck, right?

And you can't even relieve a little tension and frustration by looking down on and mocking people anymore, right? It's obviously the fault of all these "PC Police" robbing you of your right to free speech. You're not degrading people, you're laughing WITH them, aren't you?

This is all, of course, complete bullshit. most lower-middle-class White guys refuse to believe they could, in fact, improve their lot in life by holding the right people accountable, but the right people are, most often, other White guys. It doesn't matter that they are not lower-middle-class White guys who never faced the same trials and hardships as lower-middle-class White guys. It doesn't matter that they are the very engineers of all the trials and hardships faced by lower-middle-class White guys. They are White guys and White guys hold White guys to be sacred.

Except those traitorous liberal White guys. Fuck those people.
Hazelnut
Holy shit, that's the best write-up of the whole Trump phenomenon I've read to date. Can we do something about that? Poster it up on every message board, comments section, highway overpass in the country over the next 6 weeks?

teethsalad
clap clap clap
stars

Fezren
No it isn't. It's an inept and comically exaggerated generalization of an absolutely massive and diverse group of people.

Lower middle class you say? You know why they'd vote for Trump? Because when you first make it into the middle class you start paying a shitload of taxes. That's an actual reason millions of people decide to vote conservative. Conservatives also tend to vote that way because of religion.

You know what it sounds like when you generalize huge groups of people with a common set of values into some sort of demonized caricature of the very worst minority examples within that group? You sound like a liberal version of some jerkoff from stormfront.

Xenocide
The one thing Binro missed in his otherwise flawless post was the tendency for entitled white guys to 1) whine about prejudice ONLY when someone criticizes white people, even in the mildest of ways and 2) blame taxes for absolutely goddamn everything. Luckily Ferzen covered those two points for him.

Binro the Heretic
This isn't about politics. This is about the people supporting Trump.

On the surface, it seems like it's about politics because Trump is running for political office, but the thing drawing people to Trump is rhetoric, not policy.

He attracts people who want the world to be like it was in the "good" old days, even if it was never actually that way. He's selling the fantasy off White people on top and everyone else put back in their place.

Every other Republican Presidential candidate was pushing lower taxes, "traditional" values and smaller government, like they always do. Trump was the only one spouting off about kicking out Mexicans, spreading fear of Muslims, disparaging women, mocking the physically disabled, railing against the "evil" of political correctness and subtly encouraging his supporters to become physically violent with those who disagreed with him.

Trump supporters aren't supporting him because they think he has a solid fiscal policy.

Binro the Heretic
My prior comment was directed at Fezren.

Xeno snuck one in while I was typing.

John Holmes Motherfucker
>>> How would you feel if I was saying "Driving on a street...that's a racist act, because your white cars are oppressing the black asphalt! Rise up, and give your keys unto me whereupon I shall cast them into the brimstone and fire!" And then you came along and disagreed, and so I scream at you, calling you a horrible racist, as all your friends come walking along?

>>>Don't you think that this would have a deeply chilling effect on your free speech? Maybe you aren't being censored through a censorship mechanism, but rather you are being censored through cultural and emotional mechanisms.

>>>And so I would call that guy out for being dishonest and having ridiculous arguments. I would try to convince people that he was crazy, full of shit, or so forth.

>>>That's what GamerGate does.
Void 71
First they came for the commies and I did not speak out because I was not a commie.

Then they came for the satanic ritual abusers and I did not speak out because I was not a satanic ritual abuser.

Then they came for Pepe and I did not speak out because I was not an alt-right shitlord.
Scrimmjob
Then I came in my pants.

John Holmes Motherfucker
I almost felt sorry for that poor guy trying to explain the alt right to a roomful of grownups. You could almost smell his awkwardness

overf the interrnet.I don't know, maybe I should be terrified, and I cartainly am terrified of Trump, but even the racist ideology of Nazism is more substantial than the alt right, which is basically a bunch of trolls trying to come up with a political rationale for trolling. It doesn't go anywhere. Being a racist shitord on the internet ISN'T going to end political correctness, and bullying women and minorities ISN'T going to convince anyone that women and minorities are professional victims. This is obvious, right? They're just sucking their own dicks, and eventually they're going to choke oin them. but they can lose every battle and still convincve themselves that they're winning. They may be with us for a while.

>>>Fuck you, Maddow. You supposedly have a degree in poli sci, you supposedly have studied American history, so you should fucking know by now that this is a white supremacist nation. Always has been.

Is it really delusional to believe that white supremacy has been onthe decline for a couple of centuries? If it is, I think I prefer to be deluisional.
Miss Henson's 6th grade class
I've seldom seen any of those 4chan/cheezburger memes used in any way that could be called funny or creative, but seriously had NO IDEA that the feels good frog thing had turned into some sort of Nazi. Christ, what a world.
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