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Desc:Sorry for the quality, but this needs to be here and you know it.
Category:News & Politics, Accidents & Explosions
Tags:joker, jared leto, Suicide Squad, down 2 clown, boardroom approved edginess
Submitted:Sexy Duck Cop
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Comment count is 40
blue vein steel - 2016-09-24
oh god
Sexy Duck Cop - 2016-09-24
I fucking love DC movies as unintentional comedies. I say that without a trace of sarcasm or condescension; I legitimately laugh really, really hard at least twice in every one of them, and usually spend weeks afterwards dissecting them with childlike fascination to anyone who will listen. I think these things captivate me so much because megaton bombs like these are so psychologically richer than campy B-movies. Let's face it, films are hard to make, and the fact that any are made at all is miraculous. Mocking a low-budget movie for its technical failings--unless those are due to some crazy psychological problems on the part of the creator, like The Room--usually feels like punching down.

Then you have DC movies. Everyone talks about how "dark" they are, but that's a red herring; Nolan's movies were "dark" and still an absolute blast. No, the real problem is that they're so self-aware of their status as a Big Event that no one, at any point in the production, bothers to make sure it still counts as, you know, a good movie. They don't ask profoundly obvious questions like "Why is Superman mad at Batman?" or "What the hell is Lex Luthor trying to accomplish?" or "Is it weird that Superman just let General Zod toss an exploding tanker at a skyscraper? I mean that's literally how bin Laden tried to blow up the WTC in 1993." These aren't just the usual plot holes and cliched storytelling tropes. These are movies where major, fundamental parts are flat-out missing.

DC movies aren't movies. They're products. They're assets in a portfolio. Everyone knows this and no one cares. The CEO of Warner Bros. recently admitted they "could stand to do a little better on the creative", which is like saying your restaurant is doing great except for when it forgets to serve food. And that's why you get profound messes like this and BvSColonDoJ.
That guy - 2016-09-24
Self-starring infidel!!!

Two Jar Slave - 2016-09-24
I like this. Have a couple stars (the rest are for Jared Leto embarrassing himself and me).

The other thing people forget about Nolan's movies is that they're not really that edgy or dark. Batman had great comedic banter with Alfred and Lucius Fox. At least two doomsday devices with flashing countdown timers were introduced. Bruce Wayne trained with Tibetan ninjas (??) and spent time in a personal development prison pit (??). Commissioner Gordon took one look at the Batmobile and said, "I gotta get me one of those!!" and then, by the end of the movie, he's driving it around and blowing stuff up. Fun! These were fun comic book movies, albeit using fewer fantasy elements and relatively "grounded" cinematography, but they were not The Crow or whatever. With the exception of parts of The Dark Knight, they didn't demand that you respect the subject matter. I mean, why would you? It's comics.

David Ayer and Zack Snyder are too dumb to understand Nolan's approach, which was essentially "Please don't take this too seriously, except every once in a while when we want to amp up the tension." Classic swashbuckler approach. But no, these idiot directors looked at that trilogy with drool running down their chins and decided comics contained the Most Profound Stories Ever, and fans backed them up, and WB believed them, and here we are with Jared Leto laugh-moaning on a pile of knives.

Old_Zircon - 2016-09-24
On the "punching down" thing (leaving aside the problems with that term in general, of course), I personally agree, in that I don't really think the humor of B movies comes from the lack of resources, what makes them fun is that the low initial investment, relatively small number of people working on the project, and relative lack of oversight usually means that, for better or worse, the people making them have a lot of creative control compared to most studio productions. The reason something like Things or Rock N Roll Nightmare or Vampire's Kiss whatever is so fun isn't that it's cheap and made by people who didn't really know what they were doing, it's that the cheapness and inexperience usually ends up with a movie that could never have been made inside the mainstream studio system.

The whoole "fast and cheap" trash mills like Canon are great, too, but in a different way, and with them it's usually more of a laughing AT situation, but that was also kind of the point of them. Those movies are the cinematic version of pro wrestling. Some people involved might not have been in on the joke, but most of the people definitely were.

But I can enjoy big budget schlock too. I've seen Howard the Duck more times than I should admit and I've been feeling the urge to see it again lately. They're just very different kinds of films.

What I don't agree with you about is that the big budget stuff is psychologically richer, I think it's just rich in a different (and for me much darker and less fun) way.

Old_Zircon - 2016-09-24
And I don't mean "dark" in reference to the content, I mean it in reference to the larger social context in which these movies happen, the necessary cyncicism it takes to make something on that scale profitable, the overbearing precision of the productions, the lack of risk or experimentation.

Which is compelling in its own way, but it certainly doesn't make me feel good.

cognitivedissonance - 2016-09-24
These metaphors no longer mean what they used to, but instead of taking the risk on new, untested metaphors, we bet the farm on the old ones and act shocked when they don't pay off.

That guy - 2016-09-24
It's like: I knew I didn't want to see it, but I didn't know the depths to which I didn't want to see it.
Sexy Duck Cop - 2016-09-24
It's so, so much worse than you'd imagine. If you appreciate movies at all as an art, I strongly recommend you torrent it and watch only the first 20 minutes; it's jaw-droppingly awful. I can say with absolute sincerity I have never seen worse editing in a major Hollywood movie in my life. We all knew juggling that many new characters all at once would be a massive challenge, but holy shit, half the film consists of flashbacks to a movie that doesn't exist.

That guy - 2016-09-24
I think this could be used for (on) anyone who doesn't see the ol' elitism vs populism tension anymore because they feel that it's been collapsed into siding with populism.

That guy - 2016-09-24
SDC, I have seen 45 seconds of this and it's making me wish Marvin the Martian from WB cartoons was real, just so I could tell him to get rid of the earth if it's blocking his view of Venus.

I would die and my corpse would catch on fire and throw up forever if I saw 20 minutes of this. Waterboarding ain't got nothin' on that shit.

That guy - 2016-09-24
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Sexy Duck Cop - 2016-09-24
Watching Suicide Squad, I kept picturing it as a Christopher Guest production where all the major players are these quirky characters living in their own little worlds. Jared Leto is running around on-set mailing people things, because at some point he decided that the Joker is an angry mailman and should be constantly delivering packages. Viola Davis complained to David Ayers that her character is stupid and insane and incompetent, so Ayers lied and told her that her character is in fact a satirical indictment of the George W. Bush administration. (The Enchantress is ISIS, and Waller's hilariously lame attempt to control her via voodoo doll is Donald Rumsfeld.) A Warner Bro executive, played by Bob Balaban, quietly asserts that test screenings have shown the film could stand to be 15% edgier and suggests the Joker neatly arrange a variety of cooking tools in a neat circular pattern while he lies down and groans like an old man. Fred Willard plays the editor for the trailer company that re-edited the film into its current mess. He wears a Hawaiian shirt and has fun posters all over his editing bay.
That guy - 2016-09-24
good ol' Balaban

Sexy Duck Cop - 2016-09-24
Let's talk the Joker!

Part of what makes the Joker such a powerful character is that he's not so much a defined personality as he is a blank slate on which you can project a number of distinct personalities and interpretations. He can be a gangster, an anarchist, a terrorist, a serial killer, a lone lunatic. The only commonality is that he is amused by the values and boundaries normal people center their lives around. There's a lot you can say and do with this. He's more of a thematic inkblot test for the story than anything else.

What the Joker is NOT is an incoherent, one-dimensional gimmick. Drawing mouths on everything doesn't make you the Joker, it makes you a weirdo poser that likes mouths. Leto isn't chaotic, he's confusing. His character behaves like someone who vaguely knows OF the Joker but knows nothing about what makes him compelling. The result is confusing, not chaotic. The whole movie I couldn't stop asking myself why any hardened gangster would following this prancing, campy asshole. That never happened with Ledger or Nicholson. Not only were they charismatic, they followed an internal logic beyond "act crazy all the time" and "I want to have sex with Margot Robie". This asshole just wanders from incident to incident without any through-line to speak of, and it makes his presence baffling from anything but a marketing standpoint.
That guy - 2016-09-24
why.... are you doing...... this?

That guy - 2016-09-24
You could choke a horse with this movie, isn't that enough?

Old_Zircon - 2016-09-25
What makes the joker so powerful is Cesar Romero's downright superhuman ability to ham it up.

Maggot Brain - 2016-09-24
I was excited for this movie when I was first announced, finally this dark-grit universe makes sense but you can't restart a movie series halfway through. I thought the joker was okay but Joker's plot doesn't add up. Why did Joker go through all that trouble to rescue Quinn? Oh, yeah, because something needs to happened during the movie.
Sexy Duck Cop - 2016-09-24
Why did he have an airforce? Why did he wait until she texted him to break her out? Did they both agree he would let her stay in jail until she specifically requested to go home?

Maggot Brain - 2016-09-24
Why is she acting like she just got dumped when her boyfriend may have just died?

cognitivedissonance - 2016-09-24
Because ECT turns you crazy, apparently.
Sexy Duck Cop - 2016-09-24
Wanting to fuck the clown that threw you into acid is a very common side effect of this controversial procedure, but BIG PHARMA would have you believe otherwise.

Gmork - 2016-09-24
When I first saw Leto in this, I had no idea he was supposed to be the Joker. The moment of realization came as a "No... they're not serious are they? This can't be what they're going with." moment.
bawbag - 2016-09-24
The only people I know IRL who raved about this movie are middle-aged Korn/Limp Bizkit superfans.

Honestly though, it's magnificent in just -how- awful it is. A masterclass in fucking up.
Old_Zircon - 2016-09-25
I wonder what jugglos think of this movie. I could see them being above it, to be honest.

kingarthur - 2016-09-24
kingarthur - 2016-09-24
Also, the ending to this piece of crap is the Zuul fight from Ghostbusters. No, seriously. It's the same ending.

Sanest Man Alive - 2016-09-25
Zuul? Surely you're thinking of Gozer the Gozerian?

Either way, thanks for nothing; now I'm imagining a green-haired Mr. Stay-Puft covered in shitty tats.

Born in the RSR - 2016-09-25
Well I know what I'm NOT showing on MNR for Christmas.
Born in the RSR - 2016-09-25
That reminds me,


Why aren't you on for PoeTV Monday Night Raw?

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/poetv-monday-night-mov ies

At least try to chatch my stream on the 17th of October, I have a feeling you'll like it.

cognitivedissonance - 2016-09-25
I think it's ripe for MNR.

Old_Zircon - 2016-09-25
I would watch this with you fuckers.

That guy - 2016-09-25

memedumpster - 2016-09-25
No superhero movie made after 1996 is acceptable.

This kind of does look made in 1996.

Jack Dalton - 2016-09-25
Method Actor Jared Leto channeled the dark id of "The Joker"-- and he ended up with something that resembles a bad Jim Carey gimmick on In Living Color.
Nominal - 2016-09-26
Every clip I've seen of this movie makes it look like a 2 hour long version of that "edgy Mortal Kombat reboot" clip.
garcet71283 - 2016-09-26
Letos joker was about the only thing that didn't bother me about this movie. Let's face it, we will never be happy until Mark Hamill is prancing around in a clown suit.

The editing stands out as the biggest issue with this movie (as with Batman v Superman). Seriously, they need new editors.

Also, it was clearly a reshoot of a much more interesting, but far less Hollywood movie.

Lastly, while I appreciate the sentiment, Harley Quinn is supposed to have more character depth than just "ASS!"
Anaxagoras - 2016-09-26
From what I've been reading, it's not the editing itself that's too blame. More accurately, the movie already had (presumably) good editors, but the studio execs got nervous because... I don't fucking know.... and decided to meddle. So they decided to replace the existing editors and literally had an editing contest, and gave the contract to the editors that made the trailer that was most popular online. After that, they literally told the new editors "Make this movie more like your popular trailer... we'll give you a budget for reshoots." And voila! A masterpiece was born.

tl;dr The editors did exactly what the studio execs told them to do.

That guy - 2016-09-26
holy shit


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