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Desc:In which Captain Jean-Luc Picard entertains many luminaries on the Chapman Stick
Category:Classic Movies, Accidents & Explosions
Tags:dune, David Lynch, Patrick Stewart, Frank Herbert, Chapman Stick
Submitted:fedex
Date:01/22/17
Views:599
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Comment count is 28
Mr. Purple Cat Esq.
I would have loved it if this film was like, 3 times longer
Meerkat
I loved the hell out of this movie, except for that guy's chin. Seriously, he's trying to kiss the fremen chick and his chin is getting in the way, poking her in the eye and then trying to undo the top button of her stillsuit.

fedex
Mr PCE I can't tell if you're joking...? Because the (in)famous directors cut is like 3 hours long or something.

Mr. Purple Cat Esq.
@fedex. I'm not joking.
I just checked the copy of Dune on my NAS and its 2:15 long. I must checkout this directors cut.

Theres so much *stuff* crammed into this film, the plot, acting and pacing suffer terribly. Like almost every scene is just, this happened, then this happened, then this, etc.
I still really like it nonetheless. Its a really genuine and brave attempt to make a film out of the book verbatim without omitting any of its intricate weirdness.
I think they nailed the most challenging aspects of doing this, the visuals and tone.
If they had given themselves more running time, eg. if it had been done as a tv show or series of films this could have easily obviated its problems.

Maggot Brain
There is a BBC television cut that's like 9 hours I think.

Mr. Purple Cat Esq.
Id contrast it to the LOTR films where the plot, pacing, acting all work fine in the film, the visuals are *perfect* but the tone and general spirit of the books is utterly abandoned.

Mr. Purple Cat Esq.
Also this clears things up

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087182/alternateversions

Oscar Wildcat
Mr. PCE, I find myself in that rare category of cats that loved the film, but really found the books lacking. This scene is terrible and has been posted here before, but boy does the rest of the movie deliver. Plus, soundtrack by Eno? Yes!

Mr. Purple Cat Esq.
@Oscar
I'm a SUPER-hard sci fi nut. So I only really approve of Arthur C Clarke and a couple of other Authors. So imo Dune doesnt count as sci-fi. I read it quite a while ago but I remember enjoying it. Its like Iain M Banks, silly wackiness but inventive and a fun read.

Oscar Wildcat
There is actually another cut scene I wish I could find, during the penultimate battle with the emperor of the known universe's shock legions. Gurney is seen rallying house Atriedes, leading them directly into the front lines, armed only with a small pug dog. Please find this scene, as a stand alone it's such a gem. I swear it wasn't a fever dream, but who can say?

fedex
Oscar, you can see it here at 11:20

youtube.com/watch?v=oej429i2ou4

But I should warn you he has a gun AND a pug....

Two Jar Slave
Fine is sci fi, but not in the way most people expect, because most people expect the author to take mkddrn-day technology and speculate about its advancements. Dune isn't interested in that; in fact, it's so uninterested in it that it uninvents computers within the first five pages with a hand-wave reference to an ancient robot uprising. Now the tech can be basically a combination of medievalist and magic. So, where's the sci-fi? It's in the religion, psychology, anthropology, and rhetoric of Dune's universe. It's soft sci-fi not in the sense of being dumb like Star Wars, but in the sense of speculating on the advancements of the soft sciences. What if psychologists could implant hypnotic command words? What if anthropologists could seed religious fervor in foreign cultures that takes generations to ferment? What if eugenecists could create a human being with special awareness of his fate in time? It's more in tune with Asimov's "psychohistory" than Clark's gearhead specs, and I for one think there's room for it in a true fan's appreciation.

Mr. Purple Cat Esq.
@Two Jar Slave.. Thats a very good argument, and very well put. Made me think.
First, just to clarify..
The difference between hard and soft sci-fi isnt that one deals with only extrapolated STEM subjects and the other deals psychology, sociology and so on. Real science encompasses those 'soft' subjects also and imo theres been plenty of great hard sci-fi exploring them.

My personal criteria for differentiating between hard and soft sci-fi is simply, rigour. If the author has done his research, become familiar with the field, and then used his book as a sort of thought experiment, worked out the consequences (maybe even done a few calculations or simulations) and also worked out the *details* of how things would work, then its hard sci-fi. Otherwise it falls into other stuff category along with any other fiction or fantasy.
For me this is like the difference between say a biology paper and a postmodern-studies one. One has a clear testable data-driven hypothesis while the other could be interpretable in a million different ways. I find theres absolutely nothing *wrong* with reading the postmodern-studies paper and enjoying the heck out of it. But imo the more rigorous one gives you more than merely the enjoyment of reading it. It gives you new axioms to use, new solid jumping off points for your own ideas which you can then reason about and critique using logic and the available evidence.

Two Jar Slave
I like the fashion of your foresail, and I appreciate that you read my comment despite all the typos. Can you recommend a rigorous sci fi book?

Mr. Purple Cat Esq.
:)
So any thin (when he was older he released big fat books padded out by other authors) books by Arthur C. Clarke that are *not* in the 2001 series are amazing.
Some of my favourites...
Earthlight
Rendezvous with Rama (frickin' amazing read also)
The fountains of paradise
The songs of distant Earth
He has about a dozen fantastic novels + scores of great short stories.
More modern stuff I'd recommend...
Kim Stanley Robinson, Aurora + the mars trilogy.
I also love Accelerando by Charles Stross.

Mr. Purple Cat Esq.
Also pretty much, rigour decreases in order of my listing of them.

freedoom
There was a super cut of dune up on vimeo a while ago. someone took all the footage from the alan smythee version, the david lynch version and deleted scenes that didn't suck and made one extra long movie. it was really great.

fedex
Childhood's End

Two Jar Slave
Thanks for the reckies!

bawbag
Rendezvous with rama is great stuff.
Almost all those other recommendations too.

I find Charlie Stross a real labour to get through reading though in general. Not so much the concepts or the constant barrage of jargon but his dialogue.

Old_Zircon
Anyhow, I just submitted a replacement link for the 3 hour long fan edit that contains all known extant footage:

http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=146970

fedex
thanks for that, just affirms my life-long belief that this is the most glorious of all that is a glorious mess.

Maggot Brain
The only time a Chapman has ever been cool.
Lurchi
this is a good scene
bawbag
A glorious mess of a film, regardless of version. I fucking love it and I could watch that set design forever and still find shit I've never noticed.
chumbucket
Tony Levin is a great actor.
Two Jar Slave
Not a great movie, but well cast. Everyone suits their character bang-on.
cognitivedissonance
I suspect that had Lynch left the scene when Baron Harkonnen eats a young twink's nipple on the cutting room floor, it may have passed Middle American muster. I dunno. I like it.
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