|That guy - 2017-10-19 |
I don't normally vote up 'local incident' in the hopper, but I thought this might be a good exercise for poetv to talk about stuff and even talk shit, but without losing their shit . . . ?
Fine. There are probably some exercises of Christianity that are genuinely offensive and should get people kicked out, and other exercises of Christianity that should not. We may individually draw the lines at different points.
My guess, based on how the Christians are all beep-boop-i-am-new-to-earth-why-are-you-offended, makes me suspect (but I can't prove) that they were trying to get themselves thrown out. The owner is responding like someone did something more than just say "you know, I kinda like Jesus".
In other news, here's what's going on at my alma mater:
As far as I'm concerned, the conflict is anything but symmetrical. On the one hand there are plenty of Christians who see gays as less than human, and on the other hand there are plenty of LGBTXs who are sick of being treated as less than human. It's not hard to pick a side.
I’m a Christian, and failure to do your job out of moral outrage is a lack of charity, faith and human decency. You have no right to be a baker of cakes, and if you choose to bake cakes for some but not for others, you are a bad baker that deserves no custom.
There is more context below, provided by Binro
I know this won't be popular but I'm going to go with:
christian assholes who started shit
gay guy who handle this shittily
Turns out I guessed what was going on pretty accurately: those alleged Christians were putting up posters saying gay people are Satanic baby killers, then acted all shocked and surprised when they got called on it.
Gay guy could have been "nicer", but I don't see that he had any obligation to. Even Jesus would have tossed those assholes out on their ears like moneychangers in a temple.
ehrm, not only could gay guy have been nicer, he went all the way there on the low road, in a way that's, again, not gonna change minds
Do you think there's anything the gay guy could have done to change their minds? Again, look at that poster: gay people are baby killers.
You are dangerously close to saying it's the gay person's fault that these alleged Christians think gay people are baby killers. (Though it's equally likely that they don't really think gay people are baby killers, but it's convenient for them to make the argument, so they're happy to go there. Kind of like it's convenient to say gays are child molesters.)
"You are dangerously close to saying it's the gay person's fault that these alleged Christians think gay people are baby killers."
No, I'm not at all dangerously close to that.
That's a fairly shitty rhetorical move, Bort.
"If he criticizes the gay guy then ENEMY AT THE GATES, HE'S ABOUT TO BLAME THE GAY GUY!!! OOOGAH OOOGAH"
Read what I said two of my comments back.
...Assholes started shit, and then the reacting party handled it shittily.
You CAN potentially change minds, it just doesn't happen in a minute. Instead, now he's on video saying a buncha inflammatory shit, which is probably what they wanted.... and now they're the ones changing minds.
Again, these Christians walked in there with the position that gays are baby killers. These were not some well-meaning Unitarians who happened to mention their appreciation for the Beatitudes just a touch too loudly; they were bigots of the first order.
So yeah, I'm exactly right to accuse you of putting undue blame on the gay guy.
I don't think the poster suggests gays kill babies, but that they divert social attention away from the more important issue of baby murder or some looney shit. Gay dude handled it ridiculously, but the Christians were definitely being hostile as fuck and coy about it.
There's that thing that minorities have be good representatives of their group or risk garnering more bigotry, which is probably tiring and obviously not fair.
Whole thing has schoolyard bullying dynamic.
Bort, when did I say anything positive about the christians or what they did?
You're showing an incredible amount of knee-jerk thinking here.
You somehow think it's more progressive for him to handle it poorly than well. I don't.
"You somehow think it's more progressive for him to handle it poorly than well. I don't."
I don't do "progressive". Also, there's no way the guy was going to convince this bunch of Christians to change their views, so he opted not to beat his head against that particular brick wall. And, for whatever bad press the owner has gotten in some quarters, he's gotten good press in quarters more likely to deliver him the sort of customers he'd prefer, so I can't even say it was a bad business move.
I contemplated the health code ramifications of fucking Jesus right there in the coffee shop, but ultimately decided that Jesus's body is the most disease-resistant thing on earth, so if anything the coffee shop would be cleaner covered with Jesus-Santorum.
"I don't do "progressive"."
Speaking of Shyamalan twists, maybe these people aren't homophobes after all, maybe they're just upstanding white supremacists who are offended because a white guy fucking Jesus up the ass is miscegnation.
^ drained from half court.
And then we have Hooker, who has never dared an opinion that might possibly open himself up to criticism. Keep staking out those safe positions after seeing how the wind blows!
So you agree that "Bort is a fucking retard" is the safest opinion someone can hold?
I think that you can get away with it easily enough, and that makes it safe.
But again, it's not like you'd dare risk an opinion that might provoke much pushback or require you to defend your reasoning. You're a lazy and vapid man, Hooker.
You're confusing being unwilling to engage with you and being unwilling to engage at all.
|Anaxagoras - 2017-10-19 |
I love this clip so much. From the coffee shop owner's bizarre "Thank you" to the people as they're living, to their pathetic passive aggressive counter of "I guess Seattle isn't tolerant after all", this clip really delivers.
Terrible people all around. 5 stars!
There really is a lot of bizarre things in this video to unpack.
The owner is obviously mad, so you can forgive him for it, but man his rant goes from zero to weird super quickly.
Like with most clips of this nature, I'd really like to know what, if anything, happened in the minutes preceding the start of the clip.
|Binro the Heretic - 2017-10-19 |
This seems to be about more than just them being Christian. Were they putting up anti-LGBT posters or something?
Binro the Heretic
Oh, yeah, wait. They were handing out these:
Fuck those people.
Gay couples wanting a bakery to make them a wedding cake isn't the same thing as gay people hanging out in a bakery passing out gay porn. The bakery would be within their rights to kick them out and this coffee shop owner is within his rights.
He didn't refuse to serve them coffee. He kicked them out for being shitheads.
From a related video, it sounds like that group had posted anti-abortion posters, and that's what the coffee shop owner was objecting.
I'm not sure when or where the posters had been put up, because I don't care that much. But here's the video where I obtained this vital informations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AwGoaz96WA.
Spoiler alert: the host in my linked video is seriously annoying & either stupid or disingenuous. So.... yeah. That's another reason I can't be bothered to figure out who's really in the wrong.
|Enjoy - 2017-10-19 |
|SixDigitDebt - 2017-10-19 |
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Also, I feel like any commentary on this situation would be just... social triage.
|TeenerTot - 2017-10-20 |
Seems like simply a business owner flexing his own religious liberty and refusing service to a group.
|Adham Nu'man - 2017-10-20 |
The owner did nothing wrong. Kicked out assholes who wanted to post their shitty propaganda. He handled it fine.
Anyone here who thinks otherwise is seriously fucking daft and should get help.
but but but he wasn't a paragon of good manners
There you go again Bort with your weak ass moderate ways. Extreme centrists like you are the reason we have Trump.
Actually, my problem with the owner is that the arguments he marshalled were shit.
As always, when faced with a decision between Stupid (the owner) and Evil (the Christians), I'll side with Stupid every time. But being an idiot isn't handling something "just fine". It's handling it like an idiot.
Now, you can say that he was justifiably pissed off, and that's why he was an idiot. Fine. But the fact remains, when Stupid calms down, they're often still stupid. (I don't know about this guy in particular, obviously.)
|M-DEEM - 2017-10-20 |
I think he did fine. I know when you're angry and in the moment it's hard to see the potential. Throw on some satanic death metal and serve their drinks on goatse placemats wearing only a banana hammock.
Yeah, I see nothing wrong with his reaction.
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