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Desc:A gender critical perspective
Category:Religious, Accidents & Explosions
Tags:gender critical feminism, Charles Clymer, Charlotte Clymer, Magdalen Berns
Submitted:gmol
Date:02/09/18
Views:815
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Comment count is 44
Hazelnut
Sounds interesting, but damn, 9m39s.... anyone want to summarize for me?
memedumpster
When a narcissist looks in a mirror, a YouTube video explodes into causality out of the strong nuclear force, often leaving acoustic echoes behind in spacetime that sound like whining.

gmol
tl;dr gender and sex are different things. We should be suspicious when people try to conflate them.

Xenocide
So how long do we have until "OMG A TRANS WOMAN EXISTS" stops being considered a shocking topic of discussion worthy of a youtube video.

If we had Youtube a few decades earlier there would probably be hundreds of similar videos with titles like "HOLY SHIT I SAW A BLACK GUY WALKING DOWN MY STREET, EIGHT MINUTE RANT" or "I JUST HEARD THERE IS A GAY PERSON LIVING SOMEWHERE IN MY STATE, I'M FREAKING OUT."

Come to think of it those videos probably exist in real life.
gmol
You aren't parsing what she is saying. She's made many videos about malicious transactivists that are denying biology and claiming that they are female and lesbians.

It sounds insane but a lot of people are going along with it. This will harm females.

memedumpster
From the YeTewb comments :

Posted 2-9-1820
Todaye I saw a wommin not wearing a hat in The Lord's House! Postcode offense to God! Postcode Male damnation!
(pray tell replies)

Xenocide
Gmol up there doing his best impression of a Breitbart headline.

gmol
I am pretty sure I have never knowingly read brietbart. Listen to people like the person in this video. They are thinking carefully and telling the truth. Many of them are homosexual and are explicitly opposed an appeal to tradition when it comes to gender.

memedumpster
If you would like to hear more from people like in this video, please read :

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/09/book-transg ender-theology-trashes-truth-threatens-teenagers/

I guess there's some kind of bigot morphogenic field we don't know about?

gmol
Right then, what are your concerns about that article?

memedumpster
Oh, none, it's stupid, bigoted, and typical of Breitbart. I was just showing the 3 billion people online (and the 127 of them that come here) that Xenocide was right.

gmol
Tell what you think is stupid and bigoted in the article. Does it have some facts wrong? Is it quoting incorrect opinion without critical assessment?

memedumpster
Huh, you speaking on behalf of Breitbart sure does shore up Xenocide's statement.

I've always liked Xenocide, even though we've clashed in the past. I think he was right about me at the time too. Xenocide is cool, don't you think? A good combination of brevity of wit and lucid insight is hard to find in an online person.

gmol
? Where did I speak up for brietbart? You put up the link and I am asking what you have a problem with? Can you see a fallacy in that article?

Marlon Brawndo
I think trans activists have just gone too far with their demands. There is social justice and then there's trying to change the very fabric of reality. It's fine that you want equal bathroom rights. Great. Go to the bathroom of your choice. I'm all for that. But making it illegal to call a trans person by the gender pronoun you choose in an old folks home, and making it a jail worthy offense? It's a direct violation of free speech. The ideas purported by many trans activists are not merely espousing liberal ideology, they are pushing a very radical agenda, including calling straight men bigoted for not dating trans women. I thought this had to be a joke until I found out a lot of them are really buying into this new ideological series of delusions.

And for the record, I have gay family members. My sister and my male cousin (who crossdresses) are both gay and I have no problem with homosexuality or even transsexuality. But some of the absolute bullshit demands on the part of activists is really hurting their movement much more than it's helping them.

memedumpster
gmol, can I ask you a personal question?

Do you think Xenocide is single?

memedumpster
Marlon, I see this too and tentatively want to, but not really, agree? It's because I've noticed that there are a lot of just hateful people who take up a cause to have a steady supply of hate-chemicals pumped into their brains. The people who say the things you mention do exist, but I'm pretty convinced they'd throw all that away for a klan hood and a burning cross the moment they thought they'd get more hate boner length from being on the other side.

I doubt they ever spoke for anyone but themselves, and no one should accept them speaking for them. They are all over the social activist spectrum, and sane people shouldn't accept them as ambassadors for their cause, since they really don't have one. An easy way to tell is ad hominem attacks. Anyone who does that is pure unaligned dope junkie, and has no cause but the fix. Never engage them, and let the better on the side they hijacked know you're there for them and not the abusive fuckwits that co-opted them for their own rage disorders. The reason these people are suspected of being plants from the other side is that they are motivated by the same thing as their enemy camp counterparts : the exploitation of the drama as personal drug abuse.

memedumpster
As for pronoun laws, those are doomed the moment one reaches the Supreme Court. Chief Justice Vladimir Lenin wouldn't even maintain those.

That guy
Exiled male misogynist declares himself a dudebro.
Nikon
My standing rule is if someone has preferred pronouns in his or her bio, block that idiot immediately.

erratic
I love Magdalen Berns so much. Gender Critical Radical Feminism is the last bastion of sanity we have in the gender wars. Nina Paley's recent essay comparing the colonization of womanhood with Palestine is pure genius.
Hazelnut
Explain - so trans males are the Israelis here? I've got a good friend whose transgender, he doesn't seem like a "colonist" to me.

gmol
Not like you couldn't get there by googling it mate:
http://blog.ninapaley.com/2018/02/07/gender_colonialism/

erratic
Any one colonist isn't the problem, the problem is colonialism. Likewise, any one transwoman isn't the problem, but the corrosion of women's rights over their own spaces (physical and idealogical) which is. If you believe that women are people just like men, it's easy to see that they should be able to self-define and defend their boundaries. But if you're clinging to the patriarchy, this is a very threatening thing for women to do. Hence the misogynistic slurs you'll see below.

memedumpster
I love you, Hazelnut!

Hazelnut is cool, y'all.

You People Are Idiots
misogynistic slurs
lol ive been away from here a few years but i'd bet good money both you and the other terf booster smoothbrains here are dudes, probably the self-hatin gay-conservaturd ones the whole of fuckin poenews used to bury every time u made one of your regular cries for attention. what manner of fucktard were you on the old forums, one of the pedos, the furries or the race bore geniuses? y'all give off that same fuckin stench and holding these (accurately described) feminazi cunts up as some sort of bastions of womyns rights who're defeating the patriarchy as a shield for you fuckin dolts to take a swipe at trans people and their rights. . . can you be more obvious?
lookin forward to the next installment of r/gendercrit cult copy and paste responses

Hazelnut
I love you too, memedumpster.

I don't have much in the way of opinions here, except it seems to me that feminists and transsexuals ought to support each other -- they at least face a common enemy in the form of Mike Pence types.

Also, I don't know what bizarre sex thing it'll turn out Pence is into, but I bet it's GROTESQUE.

GravidWithHate
erratic: How is that a strong essay? It's your typical, lazy, $thing I don't like == $Thing my audience will agree is bad, screed.

Nina Paley's essay ends with her thesis statement. "Trans women are not women". It can't be a conclusion, because it has very little to do with the tendentious metaphors about colonialism she's been drawing for the rest of the essay. But the essay makes a lot of sense if you start reading it there and then loop back around. If gender is innate and biological, than any transwoman arguing for rights is an MRA (despite the fact that actual MRAs probably agree with her thesis). If the liberal political thought of the day supports trans rights, then it's a liberal patriarchy. So far so much of the argument left implicit.

The metaphor still doesn't work though, because colonialism means depriving someone of their land or property for their own benefit. She never quite gets as far as identifying what she's lost. She lost being able to police her own spaces so that she'll only see people she's comfortable with? Welcome to the 21st century Nina, do try to keep up.

Poorly structured essay aside, the TERFs make sense to me from this perspective. If your world view is about group identity and membership, and you see things whether they're political questions on one end of the spectrum to all human interaction on the other as reducible to simple questions of group membership, then anyone who is outside the boundaries and norms you've constructed for a group is immensely threatening.

TERFs are, amusingly enough, recapitulating patriarchal values. People in a traditional patriarchal mindset are and were threatened by women moving out of their assigned role. They're threatened by gays and lesbians because they break assigned sexual roles. If those roles are what you unconsciously (and this is another point I'll come back to) use to guide how you interact with the world, then seeing them broken creates vague and contradictory hostile flailing.

Now, the reason I talk about these as being unconscious is that no system that primarily focuses on group identity really holds up to conscious scrutiny that well. It's like heliocentrism; you can make it work, but you need to keep adding fiddly "epicycles" to account for what you actually see around you. The simpler (and far more prevalent) solution is just to not think about it, that way you can keep using it to guide your reactions.

This is why TERF arguments (and patriarchal arguments, and Marxist arguments, and Nationalist arguments...) always seem like they're groping for something. If you shared the premise, and the discomfort that the TERF is feeling over seeing it breaking down, no argument would be needed. You'd have the same visceral reaction. If you don't share the premise, no amount of rational argument is going to bring you to that place, because it's not a rational starting point.

gmol
"TERFs are, amusingly enough, recapitulating patriarchal values. People in a traditional patriarchal mindset are and were threatened by women moving out of their assigned role. They're threatened by gays and lesbians because they break assigned sexual roles. "

Are you aware of the sexuality of the author of the video here (it isn't a secret)? Do you believe she is a TERF?

GravidWithHate
gmol: I was writing about the Nina Paley essay erratic discussed, which is quite explicitly a TERF perspective.

You People Are Idiots
'the sexuality of the author '

her being a raging carpetmuncher means her feminazi ideology is unarguably true now

wow watertight argument there mr mensa galaxybrain dude
makes u think n shit,, real mindblown stuff cant wait for ur podcast and hatreon begging

gmol
"I was writing about the Nina Paley essay erratic discussed, which is quite explicitly a TERF perspective."

No it isn't a trans exclusionary perspective. Does the perspective imply the exclusion of trans identified females?

Do you mean the perspective is a male exclusionary perspective?

Chancho
I'm interested in hearing more from this person.
gmol
I put another one in the hopper, but you can obvs. just watch the other videos on her channel.

failure
fuck terfs
You People Are Idiots
Bitter, dried up TERF hags and their fellow travelers could all fucking die and not a single thing of value would be lost.
gmol
^There they are! This dance has already happened on the internet about a zillion times. For those who don't know TERF = Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist.

Radical feminists are concerned with the oppression of females (including those that identify as trans). They don't advocate for the well being of trans identified males any more than they advocate for well being of beluga whales or zebras. Radfems are happy to make it clear that trans identified males are not female. It is remarkable how upset some people get with that idea. One has to wonder why.

You'll never see an argument from someone who slings the word "TERF" that has any basic coherency. They'll just keep saying "TERF" because they've turned off the thinky parts of their brains.
You People Are Idiots
'not an argument' 'not an argument' the TERF fellow traveller intoned dutifully as they slowly shrunk and turned into a treatise on how 'all hetero penetrative sex is rape'

du thinky bitz, durrrrrr pls 2 tel abt bio truths on gender from du wombyn, are breinz is 2 smol 4 this brein geniouse
feminazis now ok if they give amo to taek on du evil """""""""trans menace"""""""'

Caminante Nocturno
What do you call an anti-trans feminist on a space station?
Braze
A near-earth TERF?

Caminante Nocturno
BZZT!

The correct answer is, an astro TERF!

Braze
DAAAMN
What do you can a feminist who dislikes transsexuals who likes to hang out at maui?

memedumpster
Surf and TERF?

Oscar Wildcat
With the big pissing contest going on above, is it fair to call it a Terf war?

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