|simon666 - 2018-11-05 |
It's not just journalists that need to change; the Democrats need to figuratively strangle the Republicans with their own tactics until they tap out.
And then they can rule over the ruins that remain.
I'm not sure how to read your comment. It seems like you're saying fighting extremism ruinous, thus implying not fighting it is the better response. If that's what you're saying I don't share the same worry for this reason: When the Republicans violate a norm, they are given a warning along the lines of "if you do this it's going to effect you too and even worse because we're going to violate the norm twenty-fold to hurt you." If they violate the norm, then you "strangle" them and offer to go back to the old way or to keep going to the strangulation. Always give them a chance to go back to the way things were.
you're saying to fight extremism with equal extremism...
they broke the system and you're offering to break it even more?
No, you saw what I wrote. I say it again with a different set of words: One side "broke" the system, the Republicans, by being extreme. I suggested the Republicans broke the system by break norms. The norms I was thinking of were norms of decorum, debate, certain rules for the Senate and House function, and so on. I think we agree on that point. We agree that the system is broken or at minimum in the process of breaking. What I was suggesting is exercising the same tactics the Republicans were exercising in order to show them that their tactics harm themselves. By using Republican tactics to enforce a will over the Republicans the Democrats would thereby be acting as a corrective against the cause of the broken system in the first place. I suggest this when I said that Republicans should be given the chance to go back to the old way of doing things, i.e., before they broke the norm.
That's my position. It identifies a problem and recommends a strategy for resolution that aims to correct the extremism by rebuilding the norms that the Republicans violated in order to be more extreme.
What is your counter proposal other than hand-wringing and masochism?
simon, do not feed
I haven't watched the video, but as an aside to Simon: today's Republicans defend a fact-free version of events, appealing almost exclusively to emotion and not to logic. Prominent Republicans get away with egregious self-contradictions on a roughly daily basis in a way that Dems cannot. Dems are, on the one hand, generally trying to do the "right thing" while compromising principles howsoever's required to gussy up corporate $$$$upport, so they can stay in the game. They are too busy keeping their inner Peters and Pauls in separate compartments. Repubs let Peter and Paul move in together a long time ago (they're just "friends," no homo) and are laughing all the way to the bank.
In order for Dems to adopt anything approaching the formula that has paid off for Repubs, they would need to abandon their shilly-shallying around all these cosmetic issues (women's rights; brown people's rights; poor people's rights) and get right down to a quest for pure power. Power, once achieved, of course, becomes its own reward. It's hard to see how everyone that's not already winning doesn't lose in that scenario.
All that said, fuck decorum. Parliament is way more fun to listen to than Congress, that's for sure. I do think calling someone out on their shit in a possibly caustic manner is just great. Gillum's recent "A hit dog will holler" line (implying DeSantis is a racist) is a pretty nifty example of that, IMO. I can imagine supporting a more confrontational line, but it's easy to imagine, with education in its current state, that debates could turn into empty name-calling sessions.
And now I'm traveling away from the Internet for a couple weeks. Bye, everyone.
A whole lot of the democrats' agenda for the next two uears,years, and whether they end up running a candidate who could actually win, is riding on whether Gillum takes Florida tonight.
|Old_Zircon - 2018-11-05 |
Much like climate change, we're about 20 years too late to fix this.
I haven't looked at the demographics in a while, but I recall that the majority of Gen X, Y, Millennials are centrist of liberal in the US. Might just be another 10-15 years until the boomers die out and with them the polarizing conservativism.
By then, Gen X'ers will be old and cranky enough to start leaning conservative. Also Republicans might finally pull off the demographic transition where they stop relying solely on white racism to begin courting the growing number of traditionally conservative ethnic groups.
Don't forget how everyone was saying Republicans were in their death throes 10 years ago and would never again be a nationally viable party.
In my experience Gen X is already the worst. The most sophisticated leftists I know are all in their 70s and 80s, but I know a bunch of old literal-commies.
Anyway I said it before and I'll say it again, to paraphrase someone more well spoken than I am, "boomer hate is the class analysis of idiots."
|Meerkat - 2018-11-05 |
There are so many things that need to change. The will to change them is not there. America and by induction the rest of the world is fucked.
And I see it in the young. I'm walking to the store and recycling and picking up litter and every day the kids drop more litter on my yard and squeal their tires as they floor their mom's car to peel away from the stop sign. If anyone should be voting for the Democrats, it should be the young. But they can't be arsed.
And they will blame us old fucks for destroying the planet. There's plenty of blame to go around. I just hope I'm dead before the shit really hits the fan.
It’s an oroborus. Young people see old people not giving a shit and think that’s okay. Old people see young people not giving a shit and give up trying.
Young blame the old, old blame the young, and nothing gets done yet again.
Nah, most young people just don't think about it. Like starting smoking when you're 16. Or starting to save for retirement when you're 18. I don't blame them, I was young once. Just don't go saying the older generation ruined it for them. Everyone is ruining it.
And yeah I know a lot of old people that don't give a shit. Leave their trucks running when they're drinking in the bar or throwing their beer cans out the window. Fuck em. Fuck em all.
Younger people are more aware of this stuff than they ever were in my lifetime, but it won't make a difference because symbolic individual things like not throwing wrappers on the ground or recycling your bottles (which, because of collection methods, is environmentally worse than just putting them in a landfill in most cases) are a drop in the bucket.
Maybe if the Democrats pick a candidate that isn't a disingenuous old bat who has fainting spells, they can actually fucking win the next election. But who have they got?
There's Biden. He might be able to take the White House back. Maybe. But I think he's the only one with even a marginal chance.
There's Warren. She won't win now. She's become a laughingstock.
Kamala Harris isn't well known enough and she's too new.
Bernie's too old now.
Cory Booker has too many controversies under his belt. He wants to be Obama but he just doesn't have the same energy. The "I am Spartacus thing" was just fucking cringey.
Kirsten Gillibrand and Tulsi Gabbard would both be amazing choices, but I doubt either of them would have a chance and neither has any interest so far.
I'm not hopeful. The Democrats need someone who is forceful but trustworthy, who can embody American values but not come across as smugly looking down on people. That's why Hillary fucking lost. She had every chance to make that a landslide and she fucked it up because no one could relate to her. Most of the people that voted for her didn't even like her.
Republicans benefited, but the loss of institutional thinking was too quick for society to adapt to. The wham-bam combo of television one generation and the Internet the next obliterated local institutions of all stripes. Churches, local politics and civic organizations were just destroyed by the need to adapt to technological progress, resulting in the ones to survive being either cravenly cynical or bearing minimal participation requirements (or both). Stripped of fallback safety nets and secondary modes of potential creative outlet, the people turn to demagogues to find their meaning in life.
@Marlon Brawndo: Here's a prediction for a Dem ticket: Biden/Harris. Biden runs with the understanding it's for one term after which he bows out and supports a Harris/X ticket.
I hope to god they don't decide to go with Warren. It would be a repeat of Dukakis. The name "Massachusetts" has been poison to any presidential hopeful since JFK.
Nominal, you might be right, but Warren's bona fides from taking on Wall Street after the banking crisis played well with many Republicans and centrists. She has consistently advocated for the working class. It would be a mistake, I think, to devalue that record while giving more value to the huff-puff of Trump voters who call her names.
That would be a good point if little things like "record" had anything to do with the dog & pony show the presidential race has become.
It's all about who has more personality and presence. Has been since the television era. It's how Kerry and Clinton 2 lost to such obviously horrible candidates. It's how Warren would lose.
Dems need to bring in Biden and tell him to fully embrace his inner gaff this time. Or a Beto O'Rourke or Andrew Gillum type.
John Holmes Motherfucker
This is going to be "Controversial" but my first choice to run in 2020 is (deep breath) Hillary Clinton. I think she's the most qualified to actually be president, I think that after four years of President Clownshoes, competence is going to matter. And she's going to be inoculated. The Republicans aren't going to be able to dig up more stuff on her. They'll be desperately trying to retread "her e mails"
That's probably not going to happen of course, but I want to see an experienced establishment candidate, Joe Biden. Al Gore. A Washington INsider. And I want to see that candidate promise Bernie Sanders a major cabinet post... perhaps secretary of labor. A lot of these new faces like Beta O'Rourke might be able to provide ideas and energy brought into an administration led by someone with experience IN THE WHITE HOUSE
I think COMPETENCE is going to be a big issue in 2020. Among other things, Trump is the ass end of decades of cynical politicians cynically exploiting cynicism about politicians. Being President is all about politics. Politics is a skill set. I want a career politician, not an amateur.
John Holmes Motherfucker
>>>>That would be a good point if little things like "record" had anything to do with the dog & pony show the presidential race has become.
Well, I think it may be a mistake to assume that 2020 is going to have anything to do with all those other years. If there's ever been a good time to push for steak over sizzle, this may be it.
@JHM: I hear you, but I'm hoping for Kamala Harris. The centrist liberalism of a Hillary with a tenth of the baggage.
Also with any luck decaying Florida Republicans will confuse her with Katherine Harris and vote for her.
|You People Are Idiots - 2018-11-06 |
They did and wall st dem, incremental,, band aid, softly softly, reach across the aisle BS cannot fix it
a sea change is needed and no fellow americans have the nuts for it
so prepare 4 the same cycle to keep repeatin until climate change kills us all
Also don't forget to shit on strangers based on their skin color, like the cunt above me earnestly believes.
You People Are Idiots
never forget gmork's latest racist outburst
"""""Who cares if that's what non-whites go through?""""
- gmork, an unapologetic racist calling everybody else racist in 2018
If shit-eating YPAI is this obsessed with smearing Gmork, I have to believe that this Gmork fellow must be a pretty decent person.
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