Your vote is your business, but I sure as hell am not voting for a member of either half of the capitalist imperialist party. Blue tie or red, they're all fucking evil.

Harm reduction is a valid tactic when it actually reduces harm, which is why I vote in local elections.

Just tell me that you think that Joe Biden is equally as much of a liar, narcissist, sociopath, inept, dumb, conman as Donald Trump in the same breath. Then although I'll think you are foolishly wrong, I'll respect your consistency.

Tell me that you think the guy who brags about writing the Patriot Act is going to be a meaningful bulwark against the rise of fascism.

People keep electing democrats to take us in a different direction from the republicans. They keep taking us in the same direction just a little slower.

In my view, a polite proto-fascist is not an improvement over an impolite one.

First, a question isn't a suitable response to my question.

Second, whatever concepts you're using to interpret the facts on the ground do so in a way that give *you* no viable political moves to make. When *you* blur distinctions that could otherwise be made and choose a disinterested position in response, that allows others (parties, positions, ideologies, et al) to assert themselves. Your political position effectively abandons the field to let anyone else willing to play to determine the rules of the game.

The video does a good enough job of addressing this idiotic self-absorbed nihilism that you don't need to bother trying to argue with these two Ultra Cool People Too Hip To Vote.

If the choice was between trump and a magical exact duplicate of trump (and you know they both say they're better than the other one) then the above idiot's argument might hold some value.

The irony of the Trump trolls pretending both candidates are the same THE SAME WEEK one of them stuffed the Supreme Court with an avowed enemy of human rights in a corrupt attempt to subvert the election. Oh yeah, you little liars are soooo cool.

>>>People keep electing democrats to take us in a different direction from the republicans. They keep taking us in the same direction just a little slower.

But they DON'T "keep voting" for Democrats. Democrats showed up to vote for Clinton in 92 and 96, and for Obama in 08 and 12, but Republicans prevailed in all of those midterms.

>>>Harm reduction is a valid tactic when it actually reduces harm,

Care to finish that thought?

As I mentioned above, I'll be voting on various local elections; particularly a number of ballot measures that will actually reduce harm.

But for president? Meh.

It has nothing to do with "coolness," I'm just not going to vote for someone that literally wants me dead or in jail. Fuck 'em.

Also, calling people idiotic and self-absorbed is a SUPER EFFECTIVE method of getting them to vote for the monster that you prefer. 10/10

And Hazelnut, I'm not going to vote for Trump either. He's a hot steaming pile of garbage just like Biden is.

We have plenty of political moves to make. I've never said otherwise, and it's weird that you're reading that in. And if you live in a swing state you should probably vote for Biden.

But, recognizing that the function of the Democratic party is to take outrage at the excesses of reactionaries and redirect it in ways that don't harm the ruling class is the foundation for any effective political action.

Yeah no kidding. Just the other day I was marching with service workers that are trying to form a union and are being strongly opposed by the rich restaurant owners in my town. We sure turned the heads of many customers.

That's a hell of a lot more impactful than voting will ever be.

You could also just do both. Or is that too mentally straining?

Where did I say I wasn't going to vote?

Oh that's right I didn't. I repeatedly said above that I do, and will, vote.

I have voted, and now, I claim the right to be complacent. For the next week, if I want, I can check out of this Kurt Vonnegut/Sophocles Horror show, turn off the news, sit in my WalMart saucer chair (no pants, of course), eating bonbons and watching every movie I can find with "National Lampoon" in the title.

On the other hand, and I just looked up what a "bonbon" is, and maybe I'd better not.

>>>I'm just not going to vote for someone that literally wants me dead or in jail. Fuck 'em.

Are you a terrorist? Who votes in local elections?

"Are you a terrorist?"

No.

Well, you haven't explain wghy Joe Biden wants to harm you, and please don't, at least for m,y sake, because I've got some bonbons to enjoy

Then wtf did you do?

There are real flesh and blood people that will be hurt with a Trump victory. A million dead on the march to herd immunity. Tens of millions who will lose healthcare coverage. Millions of LGBT people who won't be able to marry for decades to come (think a 6-3 court is bad? Imagine a 8-1 court). Perhaps tens of billions who may never live over the next 50 centuries because the world couldn't act effectively on the climate crisis.

Yes, its a rear guard action. But its a rear-guard action against a dying demographic of white Boomers who got rewired by Fox News. There will be progress, coffin by coffin. And eventually younger generations, who envy their online international friends who don't face bankruptcy from medical crises, aren't drowning in academic debt, and don't have to worry about mass shootings, will be the electorate.

>>>It has nothing to do with "coolness,"

Plenty to with "stupidity."

"People keep electing democrats to take us in a different direction from the republicans. They keep taking us in the same direction just a little slower."

which democrats want to overturn roe v wade again

shut the fuck up

>>>Also
"loled out loud"?
John.

Yes?

I'm not sure if you think I didn't say it on purpose, don't think it's funny, or are simply teasing me in a good natured (albeit bafflinfg) way.

If Ashtar / Crackersmack don’t vote that’s no great loss since they are Trump supporters trying to troll the libs. Glasseye is a bigger disappointment.

It’s not too late for you dude! When your grandkids ask you “What did you do to oppose Trump?” do you really want to say “Nothing, because the other guy had flaws”? Churchill was a racist, Stalin was a monster, so in the 40s was it wrong to fight against Hitler?

(Hitler comparisons are allowed when dealing with an sctual factual fascist and neo-Nazi supporter.)

I'm sort of reminded of my American friend living in Germany who sent out an email to us, his friends, urging everyone to vote third party because Dems and GOP are corrupt, part of the problem of the system, etc.

My internal response was: Shit, dude, you don't have to live here. We do. Easy for you to say.

I feel like ashtar and glasseye must be pretty fucking insulated to have the takes that they have. I don't know.

Unionizing is good. I'm glad glasseye was doing that. I"ve done it too. The GOP is worse for organized labor than Dems. That should be enough to tip the scales it would seem, even if one is not worried about Roe v Wade and the likes.

I think I'm just not into paralysis. It's not a moral/ethical tick against one if one votes for an imperfect yet better candidate than the other.

Finally, I reject outright that four more years of Trump is going to be just the same all things considered as a Biden Presidency. That's abjectly false.

I am not insulated at all. I'm an immigrant, a religious minority, and part of the LGBT community. I fight fascism, and that's why I oppose both Biden and Trump.

Hazelnut: If "voted for a different fascist" is the only thing one can claim as an answer to the question "What did you do to oppose Trump?" then THAT'S the real failure.

Remember that plenty of people voted against Hitler, and they still went along with the atrocities.

Voting won't stop fascism.

As to "what did I do", I am literally an anti-fascist activist and an anarchist. Biden has repeatedly said he will take a hard line against us as part of his "law and order" campaign, and is on record stating that he wants to throw every anarchist in jail, presumably without trial.

The notion that Biden is a fascist just isn't persuasive and isn't plausible at first blush. You're going to have to do more work to make that case. Here's an indirect argument against it. Jason Stanley, who wrote How Fascism Works, has made the case that a lot of Trump's locutions and behaviors are in line with fascism. Absent from Stanley are arguments that Biden meets the same criteria.

Glasseye, if you can look yourself in the mirror and honestly say “I believe BiDeN iS jUsT aS mUcH a FaScIsT aS tRuMP” then yeah, you shouldn’t vote. You need to be at least eighteen.

When we call trump a fascist, it's not hyperbole.

It absolutely is when you try to apply it to biden. You have no argument.

Always fun to come home on break from shoveling muck out of storm gutters and cleaning public restrooms to hear how privileged and insulated I am. Accusations of being a trust fund kid are like the new Godwin's law of political discussions.

I didn't say privileged, I said insulted. Insulated in your day to day from the impacts of certain political policies. You suck shit from portable toilets all day and could be insulated from children being taken from their parents, thrown into cages, and then having the parents lost to the children. Or insulated from needing or worry about access to birth control. Or any number of other things.

Sorry that was meant to read "You *could* suck shit from portable toilets..."

goddamn dude if you're cleaning all those public toilets imagine all that PISS you could save up, bottle, and throw

looking forward to you receiving the nobel prize about this time next year

I'm not the right kind of disadvantaged, you assume. That is not relevant to the claims I've made about Biden's record or his funding or what he is likely to do in office. I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make considering I've said repeatedly that people should probably vote for Biden for harm reduction if they live in swing states. But hey, go off king.

Teeth, you should take a closer look at MAGA people. They're as stupid and mean as you are being, but they seem get joy out of it whereas you just seem kind of bitter. Maybe if you watch enough rallies you can learn their secret?

Reminder that Ashtar makes up new ‘disadvantaged’ backgrounds for himself all the time. Maybe next week he’ll be a WWII vet, who knows.

What we do know is the only ‘direct action’ he’s taken is wasting all year copy-pasting Trump campaign disinfo, from ‘sleepy Joe’ to ‘dId YoU hEaR hiS nEPheW hAD a DUI?’

Hey ashtar how much of the piss do you drink on a daily basis? How do you decide what to bottle and what to chug straight from the tap? Color? Consistency? Really curious as to how you go about it

You don't support the principles you claim to hold. This being pointed out makes you mad.

Aaand there’s Crackersmack’s usual boast again, ‘ha ha made you mad.’

Well yeah, buddy. After 4 years of this shit every genuine liberal is pretty mad. And we vote.

He's not going to listen to us? We "have" to vote for him no matter what he does, and he's getting massive funding from powerful interests which are objectively incompatible with our own. Why would he listen to us?

It's the same sort of idiocy that causes liberals to tell us on the left that we can somehow push Biden left after the election.

Like, how? With what leverage? You know it's not possible, so stop lying.

OF COURSE its possible, and the leverage here would be the pandemic, the climate crisis, the needs to be addressed. And the fact that maybe the Republicans have finally gone too far. I don't know if it will happen, but I believe that it's possible, and I'm not lying, so suck my dick.

The fact that Biden can be pushed to the right as the Republicans were building toward the present train wreck suggests that Biden can be pushed to the left, if circumstances change. It's what politicians do. They change their position according to the opposition, and the will of those they represent. They compromise.

I absolutely reject the premise that both parties are equally evil. One party is evil, the other is COMPROMISED. Both parties represent the wealthy, one party represents the wealthy EXCLUSIVELY. If you can't discern the difference, you can't discern much.

The authoritarianism of Trump is a manifestation of the same impatience with political process the Bernie Bronies have been showing. Not being a politician is Trump's whole thing. I've already voted, and I voted for the politician. Gladly!

Hey Ashtarsmack / Glasseye, guess what? For your whole year of wasted effort we’re still voting.

Again, what leverage can be brought to bear to force him left? What negative consequences will he suffer if he doesn't?

"It is your moral duty to vote for the Democrat no matter how horrible he is" and "We will force him do what we want through public pressure" are incompatible positions.

This week Trump corrupted the Supreme Court and the best the trolls can muster is BuT dId YoU hEAr ThAt bIDeN iS tHe SAmE?

Ashtar, Biden got a shit ton of funding from individual small donors via ActBlue. The data is out there to weaken to your thesis, if you're interested in being accurate.

He isn’t. He’s just trolling.

I looked that up before making the claim. Because I'm not a stupid asshole.

Biden has gotten more contributions from Wall Street than Trump has by 5 to 1.
https://tinyurl.com/y29mab7b

Biden (counting his dark money super pacs) has gotten much more from large contributors as he has from small individual donors (about 60-40). https://tinyurl.com/y3n99app

Biden also did better than Trump in fundraising from zip codes with high median family income, which accounts for *all* of his fundraising advantage. https://tinyurl.com/yxm2cak6

Biden has more billionaire donors than Trump, but they've contributed less. Trump has been campaigning since 2016, however. https://tinyurl.com/yy642a5c

"Hey Ashtarsmack / Glasseye, guess what? For your whole year of wasted effort we’re still voting."

What effort? Vote all you like, I don't care.

While you sit at home and do nothing I'm out in the streets literally fighting police violence.

And fuck the supreme court; it's an undemocratic institution that should be abolished, just like congress and the presidency.

Hazelnut has nothing to contribute other than dumb personal attacks and obsessive stalking. This site is a lot more tolerable with him blocked.

Install ublock to chrome and add:

poetv.com##div[style="padding-left: 30px;"]:has(a[href="/users.php?userid=22026"])
poetv.com##td[class='video-text']:has(a[href="/users.php?useri d=22026"])

to "my filters"

If you block everyone that thinks you’re an idiotic troll then you’re only going to have 3 other Super Cool Leftist Revolutionaries to chat with about how you’ll change the US government by spamming republican disinformation at liberal voters.

Everyone else is mostly operating in good faith, even if they're dumb and wrong.

The fact that H-nut continues to respond to my posts with tedious personal attacks and conspiracy theories that I can't even see kind of confirms that he's not worth engaging with.

>>>Again, what leverage can be brought to bear to force him left? What negative consequences will he suffer if he doesn't?

What kind of remote-control Manchurian candidate were you hoping for?

I was responding to "You know it's not possible, so stop lying." My response was "yes it is, and I'm not." You're moving the goalpost.

>>>The fact that H-nut continues to respond to my posts with tedious personal attacks and conspiracy theories that I can't even see kind of confirms that he's not worth engaging with.

I think it confirms that he thinks you're not worth engaging with on a deeper level.

>>>>Biden has gotten more contributions from Wall Street than Trump has by 5 to 1.
https://tinyurl.com/y29mab7b

I loled out loud! Trump must be shitting a brick!

The fact that Wall Street thinks Biden will be good for them means that he will not be good for you, as your interests and theirs are incompatible.

Also
"loled out loud"?
John.

>>>What effort? Vote all you like, I don't care.
>>>While you sit at home and do nothing I'm out in the streets literally fighting police violence.

And that makes you superior to the people who merely vote? My fucking hero!

>>>Also
"loled out loud"?
John.

I can't tell if you didn't get the joke, or thought it was a bad joke. I use that expression all the time, which probably makes it less funny. But I'm rather pleased that I came up with that, and also that I came up with "Bernie Bronies".

Glasseye, you’re clearly very proud of yourself when you boast “vote all you like. I don’t care.”

You shouldn’t be.

You should be ashamed.

>>>The fact that Wall Street thinks Biden will be good for them means that he will not be good for you, as your interests and theirs are incompatible.

I think that's a massively dumbed down assumption. Do you suppose the people on Wall Street want THEIR familes exposed to Covid 19?

Hazelnut: I should be ashamed that I don't want other people not to vote?

That just makes no sense.

Vote if you like, or not, it's your life.

John Holmes Motherfucker: "And that makes you superior to the people who merely vote? My fucking hero!"

Nah. I believe it is more effective than voting, and I wish people were more engaged with direct action, but we're all doing the best we can.

I don’t believe for a second that Glasseye does any ‘direct action’. Real activists understand why voting is also vital, they’re doing everything they can to encourage voting.

As we speak Black Americans in some areas are RISKING THEIR LIVES to vote - I guess they’re just not as cool as Glasseye.

>>I think that's a massively dumbed down assumption. Do you suppose the people on Wall Street want THEIR familes exposed to Covid 19?

A: People with money are not being exposed to COVID.

B: The case numbers under a Democratic admin would not be significantly different. The fundamental economic, political, and cultural realities that drove our response would not be any different. Look at Europe. Then look at Vietnam, China, and Cuba. You have to do a strict lock down and pay people to stay home. We can't/won't do that because of the way our economy and government are built. Biden can go on TV and tell people to wear masks until he turns blue, but unless he makes people stay home and pays them to do so, the virus will continue to rampage until we have a vaccine.


I thought LOL'd out loud was funny, but also that you should also be shamed for it.

Also, just want to reiterate this is a zero sum game. The interests of the ruling class and the interests of everyone else are incompatible. What is good for Wall Street is bad for you. If Biden is good for the ruling class (and they sure think he will be), then he will be bad for you.

Like, vote lesser evil. Sure. But it's still evil. Being stabbed is preferable to being shot, but that doesn't mean you should get excited about being stabbed. I don't understand why pointing this out makes people so mad.

Ashtar: “I care sooo much about socialism I’ve spent all year copy-pasting Trump campaign disinfo, from ‘sleepy Joe’ to ‘nephew had a drug problem’ “

ashtar just needs to throw a couple more bottles of piss and he'll solve all the problems forever

Imagine thinking that casting a single vote for a guy beloved of Goldman Sachs alumni was a more effective action than even the smallest direct action. Imagine not only being that willfully doltish, but then making that your whole thing that you bring up all the time.

i guess you should start throwing piss bottles at me to stop

https://tinyurl.com/jonuc2p

Reminder that Ashtar / Crackersmack repeatedly boasted that he’s “trolling”, just owning those libs. What exactly he thinks he “owns” beyond his own humiliation is anyone’s guess, but he certainly doesn’t believe his own bullshit.

Here he is on video. He said this a lot.
I generally try not to make factual claims I can't support.

https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2020/07/23/in-which-joe-biden-bra gs-about-having-written-the-patriot-act/

Note how Crackersmack left off the date. Turns out it’s Biden 18 years ago talking about a proposal he wrote 26 years ago.

Meanwhile Trump corrupted the Supreme Court YESTERDAY.

This is a bit like Ashtar in 1941 saying it would be wrong to oppose Hitler because Churchill was a jerk in WWI.

>>>Note how Crackersmack left off the date.

I immediately noticed his misleading use of the present tense, e.g. "the guy who brags about writing the Patriot Act", and then, when I pressed him for the date, he rather indignantly responds as if I implied that Biden had never said that, which I absolutely did not.

Ah, I misunderstood. Perhaps you could provide me with the date he repudiated the Patriot Act, my good chum?

Or perhaps how he plans to repeal it once in power?

HURR BLURURR RLOOK WHAT BIDEN DID HURRUR POOOP

meanwhile: women lose rights and go back to the 1950's

how fucking stupid can you possibly be ashtar? this is a binary decision based on whether or not you desire to support women retaining their current set of rights. fuck me ive finally become a single issue voter however that issue is literal freedom unlike the rhetoric the right has been spewing during every democratic term

Don't worry, I'm sure the bipartisan committee to study court reform will turn that right around.

Reminder even Ashtar doesn’t believe his own bullshit. He’s a Trump voter snyway; if he stays home no great loss.

Not even sure what that analogy is meant to suggest. Watch the video, it's good.

I watched the video. I voted. That's enough talk for now. Follow me on Twitter!

Good on you!

I don't recall any meaningful backlash for aca by liberals. The compromised version that got passed was yet another pointless attempt by the left to meet the right halfway. Which they will never, ever reciprocate.

Five ghost stars to Miss Henson’s thoughtful and cogent response. And for voting!

oh dear lord, did someone attempt to call biden a proto-fascist?

Yup, so they’re refusing to vote against the candidate who has actually literally given support to neo-Nazis.

He doesn’t even care; that makes him so much better than us?

That “?” was meant to be a “!” But come to think of it I do have a ? for Glasseye:

If Trump wins next week, how will you feel?

Will you be proud of yourself?

Please THINK about that as you decide whether to vote.

I mean, yeah, it does.

And there’s Crackersmack in a nutshell.

boi

Delicious!

You could just copy pasta a lot of the same shit pillager & co were spamming in 2016 as well.

But where's Cena, Baleen, Infinite Zest?

Baleen left out of outrage over anyone not liking Tim and Eric

IZ and Cena probably got tired of seeming the same stupid walls of text over and over again about who is The One True Socialist Revolutionary and how their missing vote will make democrats overthrow the US government.