Also I could write an essay on why trying to create a pen and paper style rpg game in a computer is just a bad idea. Without a human DM the player has massively limited volition and scope for creativity. Only a tiny number of pre-programmed decisions can be included in the game.

Obviously some great and enjoyable CRPGs have been made, but only through tremendous effort and talent. They are fighting an uphill battle because the overall concept of this type of game is flawed; Its not suitable for the medium.

See also adventure games (eg grim fandango) Its great *despite* being a terrible fit for the medium. Maybe if it had been made in a more suitable medium, say as a Pixar film, it would have been even much better.

I have no desire for a pixar film version of baldur's gate. I wanted baldur's gate 3, not divinity original sin 3.

There is a chasm between the quality of Black Isle writing and Bioware.

Yep, Outer Wilds is probably the best game ever made.

Outer Worlds... meh...

Outer Wilds was good, sometimes even great, but I found it too long and fiddly to be anywhere the best game ever made or even the best puzzler ever made. For every incredible moment of getting sucked down a water spout into an ancient underwater lab, there was 30 minutes of awkwardly sliding down a nondescript maze of tunnels because a walkthrough told you to, all while avoiding instakill clouds by looking at the game through a crappy camera filter. Or floating around looking for a quantum moon that you can't actually find simply because that plot-point hasn't started yet, or maybe it has, I still don't know.

It's funny how adventure gamers these days have universal scorn for the old Myst games, calling them obtuse puzzles wrapped up in pretty graphics and overall examples bad designs. But then they'll gush over Outer Wilds, which I think shares many of the same strengths and weaknesses as Myst: beautiful graphics, a unique world to explore at your own pace, a cute aesop's fable of a story to unpeel, imaginative and memorable puzzles that don't hold your hand; but also little sense of direction and puzzles that require walking through the same hidden cave four times before you happen to notice the thing.

Maybe I'd have rated Outer Wilds higher if it had been a shorter ride. I never actually finished it, but by the 12th hour of playing, the euphoria of jetpacking around a solar system before it goes nova had worn off and I was mostly just feeling lost and confused.

I also realize that when you criticize any puzzler, especially for being too long, you open yourself up to people saying "I finished it in two hours and never got lost. You must just be stupid." Well, that's very possible. I take forever to finish puzzle games. At least Outer Wilds's many positives held my attention longer than most puzzlers.

Well ok: Outer Wilds is one of my favorite games ever.

@Two Jar Slave

Myst and *especially* Riven were two of favourite games. Ive played all the games in the series + Obduction (extremely good btw, as good as Myst imo)

The core design idea in Myst imo, is that its *not* like the 7th guest, you are *not* trapped in a intricate puzzle filled maze designed by some mad scientist. You are in a normal functioning place.. Its just not normal to you because its alien to you and you the player dont understand how it works, but once you understand the logic of the world, then navigating it / beating the game becomes trivial. The game makers succeed to varying degrees in achieving this in the various games. The best is Riven, and I think some the games after were made by different people who didnt give a shit about this idea.

To me, Outer wilds seems like a continuation of those ideas. But improved. In the Myst series the limited movement options sometimes stretch your suspension of disbelief. Eg why cant I just climb up there, why cant I just break that door down. Outer wilds solves this by giving the player total freedom of movement.

I like that take on the Myst games, Purple Cat. I have such a soft spot for that series because my wife and I played them all when we were dating, and I maintain to this day that we learned patience, problem-solving, and good communication skills by banging our heads against Exile and Revelation.