Wow. Thanks for putting this up. Everyone should see this.
And soon a bunch of men who never spent any real time in a combat zone will denigrate and smear men like this for telling the truth.
|Caminante Nocturno |
This is very difficult to listen to.
too many emotions to handle watching this. unbearable.
it was fired into because we were angry
Sad. Jon Turner is a brave man.
|Aubrey McFate |
I don't care what you think about the war, this is horrible conduct.
Sucks when we're the bad guys, huh?
I wondered when you would crawl out, Billy.
No, we are the bad guys here. You don't get to let shit like this slide or say that it's just a few people. There is no army of one. Any time a soldier kills a civilian in cold blood or destroys a church, he or she is wearing the American flag on their suit. Anything they do is being done by America.
Shit happens, I know. It's war. Nothing is cut and dried. However, that fact doesn't give our leaders and our forces a free ride. We need reprimands, checks, and any other measures that show that we won't stand for fuck-ups like this. Hell, we're farming out our military to mercenaries now and letting this stuff slide. Nothing's right.
Abu Graib, Guantanamo and other atrocities aren't aberrations anymore. They're the norm. If you're too wrapped up in partisan bullshit to see what's wrong with that, then fuck you.
I realize this. But what you've gotta remember is that WE'RE THERE, occupying forces fuck up a lot, you've got to TRY to keep it under control, but you've got to accept that these things happen. You can't clamp down too much or you'll end up with a "minority protection status" for the Iraqis a lot like we have here, which would be disastrous for our effectiveness as well as for troop morale, but you've gotta keep guys like this in line. It's a tightrope, and it's tough to walk, but we're there and we've gotta try to do what we can.
If we pull out, things could get a lot worse, remember. It's not like the Iraqis are just ready to make peace. If that were possible, we'd have reduced troops by now. Something else is horribly wrong.
The thing is Billy, I could actually win this argument for you. You are doing it all wrong. You don't deserve to win anyway.
Could--could someone say something to make this funny? This makes me feel kind of sick. I don't like feeling guilty for shit I didn't even do. These guys need to be thanked, a lot.
My best friend's brother-in-law died at Fallujah!
Oh wait, that wasn't funny...
Not watching this one either, BTW. 5 stars on principle.
Watching "Iraq Party Van" afterwards helps a little. Not much, but a little.
On second thought, it makes me even sadder. Putting a human face on war is what makes it hurt.
I ache all over now
|Jeff Fries |
These things can't fail. For one, no one is going to second-guess testimony delivered live by the vet himself, despite the obvious fact that the speakers are going to skew their version of what happened to those organizing and attending the event. Second, it provides a lovely parallel with Vietnam. Third, it hurts so goooood.
Please try not to associate words like "sequel" or "redux" or "brand recognition" with this program. The point is, good kind human being, to cry your eyes out over semi-substantiated claims by biased parties in place of whatever unknown or covered up atrocities actually have occurred. And the best part is if anyone exercises skepticism about the motives of anyone involved you can imagine one of these brave souls snapping and murdering the shit out of them.
The Great Hippo
I understand what you're saying and I agree that appeals to visceral emotions are dangerous, and that it's just about IMPOSSIBLE to question these things or express skepticism because of the emotional entanglements. But come on. Relax. Have a coke.
I'm certainly not going to go out and start car-bombing politicians because of this, but I'm going to take what was said here under consideration on my way to the voting booth--until someone comes along and proves that it's bull shit. And if it is bull shit, it will be proven bull shit, because--well, fuck! The government didn't get away with that Moon Landing fiasco, did they?!
WHY DOESN'T THE MEDIA REPORT THE GOOD NEWS FROM IRAQ
My mom works with Iraqi war vets in Seattle and has been involved in various peace groups, including IVAW. She does film screenings and puts workshops together for them so that they can heal and integrate back into normal society.
The kinds of testimony these men have given is quite common and is not motivated by any political groups. They have organized this themselves. I'm not sure if you know how difficult it is for a veteran to to come out and say things like this, not just because they are required to relive these experiences but they feel they are betraying their brothers in arms. It takes an amazing amount of courage and soul seeking to do what these men have done and they are truly heroes.
This kind of racist, destructive behavior is a byproduct of going to war, it doesn't matter if it's Vietnam or WWII. My brother told me he had to routinely confront other men on his ship about calling guys hajis and about teasing and otherwise tormenting the Iraqi allies who were on the ship with him. People just transform in a combat zone, as one of these vets said.
What interests me about many of the POEtv user posts on here is that the statements are coming from your own belief system or agenda rather than actually LISTENING to these men and feeling compassion. Billy Buttsex is on some other fucking planet and Jeff Fries is somewhere else too.
Jeff Fries: THANK YOU. It's about goddamned time that someone else said no to this throwback peacenik circle-jerk.
Baleen wants us to listen to each others' feelings. Maybe if we'd just stop having ideals and start playing nice, things would be much better. It must be great taking the high road and not having to stand up for anything, eh Baleen?
You usage of the word "ideals" suggests that you believe your opposition doesn't have any. This explains a lot.
More words. Sweeping generalizations. Phlegmy weeping. Intense masturbation.
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