As usual Bill Maher states the obvious and everyone hates him for it.
This is what Bill Maher actually believes.
It's like he gets up every day and tries to find a way to embarrass himself even more than he did the day before.
"And another thing. Why does he keep raising money for autism education? We all know it's caused by evil psionic wizards."
I agree with both of them.
Stewart tries to much to play the moderate and pretend there's equivalence in the political movements. It's broadly appealing, but its wrong, and there's a difference between a zealous defense of moderatism, and a moderate criticism of zealotry.
Maher on the other hand is an example of a left-wing demagogue (he's no Glenn Beck, but who is?). He claims the left stands for science and against conspiracy nonsense while indulging new age "medicine". He had good lines calling out actual Republican policies, but indulges in applause getting comparisons to Jim Crow and Godwin'ing.
You're right about Maher, but I think the accusations of false equivalence have been overblown. Stewart didn't equate Olbermann with Beck, except according to KO's twitter account.
Not that there's some truth to it. Why make "Peace Train" into the prelude to a bit? Why was the punch line a song that everyone associates with Coors light? Did they think cheap beer is something that we can all agree on?
Anyway, consider this: if they succeed at all in getting people to be less afraid, then they'll have dulled the edge of a weapon that is mostly used by the right (especially Beck). It's insidious, in a good way :)
I don't see anyone else here, he must be talking to you.
John Holmes Motherfucker
I think Irish Whiskey is wrong about Stewart pretending there's equivalence in the political movements. No one has done more than the Daily Show to expose the fallacy that the media needs to show both sides of every question, even if one side is ignoring reality. Stewart just tries to be respectful to the people on both sides, most of the time. Not always. His response to Mitt Romney's concession speech in 2008 was "Fuck you" It was also his response to statement by Sarah Palin. There's nothing craven about that.
John Holmes Motherfucker
This was during the writer's strike.
Jon Stewart's weepy 'we've gotta change the discourse' stuff was hopelessly idealistic and unworkable when he was on 'Crossfire' ten years ago. It's grown even staler with his non-rally and fawning over Mike Huckabee. Stewart's very skilled at making jokes, but he places way more faith in humanity's ability to work together than any rational person should allow.
-1 because Bill should've bit into him harder.
|Binro the Heretic |
Bill may be an asshole, but he speaks the truth.
Actually, speaking the truth is what makes him an asshole, I guess.
I agree with Maher, but I know why Stewart and Colbert did what they did. They ended up attracting more people than Beck's rally, which was a great notch in the belt. I'm sure that was helped by a few conservative leaning folks who appreciate the light tone of Daily Show and Colbert. Stewart and Colbert may be influential in how their audience votes, but they wash their hands of all responsibility time and again by claiming they're just clowns.They're subversive, always have been and always will be. They're cracking jokes in the back of the classroom. The whole thing was to minimize what Beck did in August, because Beck is a clown too. I was especially happy about the giant screens showing regretful Fox News reporting, being captured by the Fox News cameras that were covering the event, lol.
Maher says that Stewart and Colbert should have "sided with the sane and the reasonable", but I think that's exactly what they did.
It really isn't as simple as saying that the left is sane and reasonable and the right is insane and unreasonable. That's a child's game. Sure, it isn't "evenly distributed in both parties", but when did they ever say that it was? When did they equate Olbermann and Beck? Maybe I missed it?
For the first time ever I just completely agreed with a Bill Maher monologue. The man must be stupendously wrong, in that "feels real good to be wrong like this" way, because I am loving it.
Bill keeps going on about how the left has fewer crazies, and in doing so he's missing the point. Stewart's argument is simply this: it doesn't matter which side has more insane people, because both sides have a HUGE surplus of sane people who are getting drowned out. The point of the rally was to give those people a chance to be counted.
I don't see why Maher seems to think that the (impossible to prove) argument that the left has more sane people is worth anything. Politics isn't a sport where you win based on how many non-crazies are on your team. If the only people who get to be part of the national discourse are the ones on the fringes, then we all lose. And Maher, by stepping right back into the swamp of "my side is immaculate, your side is insane," has proven himself to be part of the problem.
Besides, this is a guy who believes people shouldn't get flu shots because THE GOVERNMENT. He's not in a position to call anyone crazy.
No body made of a majority of sane individuals causes the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, strips civil rights away from THEMSELVES, and tanks the global economy.
Xenocide, both you & Obama about to see how moderate, sane & rational the current crop of repubs are...
Xenoside: There's another subtle thing that Stewart / Colbert were trying to do. For decades now, there's been this fight about whether mainstream America is left or right, but Stewart and Colbert are trying to reframe the debate so that mainstream America = sane people who just want to solve our problems. I don't know whether there will be any traction on this, but it would be nice to redefine "mainstream" along those lines.
Pillager: I don't think any sane person believes the Republicans in Washington are responsible and willing to compromise for the sake of the country. In fact they've already said they're not willing to, and their one job for the next two years is to unseat Obama. People who have been courted over to sanity won't ever support that.
Xenocide: you put it better than I could.
Pillager: I think we already saw the worst of it. At least, I doubt it could get any worse than it was around 9/11, and much of that was about securing votes.
Plus, who needs grassroots support from crazies when corporations can donate freely (and as it's starting to look, anonymously)?
|Hammer Falls |
As Jon said, he can't control what people think the rally was about. My wife and I were having a similar debate about the rally as the above discourses and comments. She thought the message was "can't we all just get along". I believed it was just more re-affirming of Stewart's ongoing "news should not be biased on either end" stance.
That said, as far as the criticisms of the Rally I've seen so far, Maher's was the most well spoken, humorous and with valid arguments. After this, I would like to watch Stewart and Maher have a discussion, really.
I think the first and last time I heard the term "reverse racism" was in middle school, when I realized that "reverse racism" is just fucking racism.
Also I love his smug grin every time he makes a funny that gets even a couple claps.
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