|Aoi - 2011-06-23 |
The fact that "Mark" has been calling in regularly since this show, every time sounding evidently more unsure about his faith, and in particular the organization that is his church, and the effects of indoctrination on the children of that church, makes it even better.
I mean, not in the "haha, got him!" sense, but every time since, he's asked more questions, and (while he may not be gifted with the most rationally observant mind) clearly thought about just why he does, or doesn't, believe, rather than just clinging to what he's been raised with.
So yeah, the meme of "athiests that dare to speak up are just smug assholes who don't convince anyone, they're just dicks" can go fuck itself.
It's pretty remarkable. He's been quiet the last few weeks, though, have to wonder if his church (which is a rather insular and paranoid one as they go) has found and cracked down on him.
If Mark or any most other Christians were made God, I'm sure they wouldn't send people to hell for not believing in them, or believing another god. So it bugs me how they're cool with God doing it.
Well, yeah, he admitted that he'd never really read much of the bible himself, and was pretty much just accepting what his pastor told him at face value. The fact that he was so open in admitting these things were quite impressive to me. Hope he's okay.
All the Athiest Experience shows going back a ways can be found on http://www.youtube.com/user/freetheworldof , which uploads the show a few days after it airs each week. If you want to see more of the saga of Mark, skim through the shows from the date of the show in this clip onward.
There's been this one caller for the last month or so, too, hilariously trying to accuse the hosts of being hypocrites for supporting gay marriage (while furiously claiming he's an athiest, and the big issue is the WORDS involved), a position he's focused on since his first "appearance" trying to argue that "homophobia" is a lie because he ain't afraid of no gays, he's just disgusted by 'em. The sheer number of regurgitated but not understood and made up fallacies he accuses them of making alone is amazing.
It's not so much that they're cool with it, so much as that's just how things are. Just listen to Mark not answer simple questions; he feels he's not allowed to think other than he was taught, because even questioning teachings is something the Big Guy will frown upon.
"What would you do differently if you were God?" is probably a good question to plant in someone's mind, though.
|Ursa_minor - 2011-06-23 |
These guys are excellent.
|takewithfood - 2011-06-23 |
One of the best Atheist Experience videos I've seen. I like it better when they aren't constantly interrupting each other; when Matt gets in the groove, he can be very eloquent.
This caller strikes me as someone who is pretty far along in questioning his faith, but hasn't yet come to the point where he can admit it yet. I've seen friends go through the same thing, and they sounded exactly like him - and just like him, they each sought out Atheists to debate with, only they wound up mostly just listening rather than actually arguing, in the end. It's like the religious equivalent of suicide by cop.
|StanleyPain - 2011-06-23 |
"So yeah, the meme of "athiests that dare to speak up are just smug assholes who don't convince anyone, they're just dicks" can go fuck itself."
A million fucking times, this.
plenty of athiests are smug blowhards, but the entire concept that all of them are was always exaggerated and blown out of proportion
The guy who isn't Matt Dillahunty is kind of an asshat, though. He's making like Mark wants him to go to hell, which is most likely not the situation at all. Mark is answering the question as to what the rules are as he understands them, and not-Matt is shooting the messenger.
This is not to say that fools should always be suffered gladly, but if you can't see the difference between "I want you to go to hell" and "what you're doing can send you to hell", you're not being very intellectually honest. Matt doesn't seem to have any trouble making the distinction.
While it's true he's quick to take offense, the point he was trying to make is that there isn't really a difference. Callers often say they 'choose' this set of beliefs as the most reasonable and true, and sometimes acknowledge they are choosing among those beliefs the ones they support, but refuse to take responsibility for those choices.
Mark believes it's right that the host goes to hell, and that he deserves it (otherwise he doesn't believe in a wise and just God). The fact that Mark says he's not responsible for that action, doesn't take away from the insult. Again, when it comes to anything other than religion, we wouldn't make that exception or let people duck responsibility. Mark might find it unsettling, but he still asserts it as his belief and true, which is all a person in a discussion can respond to.
Mark does not once say that damnation is just, he only says that the Bible is pretty clear on damnation. And no, the two are not the same thing by virtue of logical equivalence, because religious belief isn't a fully logical enterprise. In fact, the fact that Mark can't personally endorse the justness of damnation is a sign that the cognitive dissonance is building to a head, where Mark could go one of two ways. What to do?
Goofus gets bitchy about a personal insult that Mark never even intended.
Gallant tries to help Mark realize that the God of the Old and New Testaments is too contradictory and arbitrary to be believable.
|Aubrey McFate - 2011-06-23 |
Oh, Mark. You can just smell the flopsweat.
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