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Desc:A speech by the man on the ground during the 'Collateral Murder' video
Category:News & Politics, Military
Tags:Iraq, glorious united states military, wikileaks, collateral murder, mccord
Submitted:Gommorrah
Date:08/20/11
Views:769
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Comment count is 50
themilkshark
We expect American citizens to be shocked and outraged by the carnage and injustice, yet they're not watching this video... They're running a simulator of these exact actions on their home gaming systems in lush, beautiful high resolution. This is what most white collar males come home and do to unwind after a constrictive day at the office. America loves killing foreigners who speak, look and praise differently than we do. there is no outrage, support the troops and God bless America. We're the nation of darkie killers, same as it ever was.
StanleyPain
Yeah, and those damn kids playing GTA4 is what caused the riots in London.

Hooker
Translation: I take no responsibility for my lack of caring.

themilkshark
I've been caring as long as I've been alive. I'm pointing out that the majority in the US is happy to see foreigners get handed headshots. You're either American or "terrorist" to a LOT of us.

memedumpster
If they behave that badly in Iraq, why would we want these soldiers to come home to America where they can vote Republican and fantasize about shooting people in the street some more? You know they'd all go become cops and bring their PTSD to the job because they can't be integrated into a society that doesn't give them absolute power. The ones with the strongest moral fiber will just become alcoholics and commit suicide.

Greatest country in the world.
Pompoulus
Man this is what Gommorrah used to do, maybe he still does but the presence of this video encourages me.

You look at this video and you see a bunch of guys flying off the handle? Really? Behaving badly?

I look at this video and see a bunch of guys doing what they're paid for. And THAT is the problem.

memedumpster
Fuck no, I look at this video and I see a bunch of kids that got their lives and minds raped by rich assholes elected by idiots groomed to elect them who will never have any consequences for their actions. This is my country and the strata upon which I must build a life which must never cross the lives of those who really control it.

I post this way to troll because being honestly angry is the impotent rage of a sad fucking person. At least I can try and be offensively funny in the face of seeing nothing in the future for all three hundred million of us. We're all equal when we're this equally fucked.

I apologize if I came off genuine. It is the Internet and I was being a douchebag.

Pompoulus
It's cool. My general policy is to treat people as sincere with the understanding that they're probably not.

Seems like everybody on PoETV is too busy being wacky though to air their actual thoughts on anything. Kind of a bleak landscape of strange performance art.

Pompoulus
*****
baleen
Works well with Winter Soldier testimony.
baleen
But as usual, Gomorrah is brainwashed beyond belief.

Sephirock
Yah....it's not just the videos he posts but his tone. He always demonizes those who have different agendas then his and never criticizes his own beliefs.

baleen
Gom is what people call an "pseudo-intellectual fraud." But you know, I am sure he really cares about people and dedicates his life to helping them. I'm sure his heart is an open book full of whispers and compassion.

CJH
baleen should know; they can smell their own

Sephirock
"pseudo-intellectual fraud"......i like it! gommey doesn't have any nuance, all he does is post videos like this and bash videos like the ones of soldiers dancing.

Knuckles
The "that's what they get for bringing their kids to a battle" line still makes me so impotently enraged and ashamed. Horrifying all the way around.
themilkshark
That's what they get for not believing in Jesus.

That's what they get for being born on the wrong part of the planet.

That's what they get for not having more money.

That's what they get for not working harder to leave their home.

That's what they get for looking so much like the bad guys.

That's what they get for not nuking the US.

That's what they get for being in the way.

Hank Friendly
I would suggest one of two courses of action for those of you who are without firsthand military experience and feel compelled to pass some greater judgement after watching this video; first, I would suggest that you make an attempt to see this for what it is. This is one man's story, being exploited by a group with an unsubtle political agenda. While certainly a gripping account of what I can imagine was a harrowing personal experience, there is nothing here to suggest anything relevant to the ethics of war in the 21st century, nor is there enough contextual information to make any kind of intelligent inferrence about the methods employed. I realize this is a lot to ask; you're watching this video, becoming drawn in to this man's story, empathizing with his pain, who can really blame you for voicing your opinion? So, as a corrollary, I offer this second alternative:

Shut the fuck up because you have absolutely no god damn clue what you are talking about.

Raise your hand if you have spent time in the military. Only a few of you, right? Raise your hand if all your experience with war, violent death, dead babies, and people actively trying to kill you has been secondhand over the last decade. Well, keeping in mind that this is the internet, I can only assume the majority of you are ex-Navy SEALs, so maybe that argument doesnt hold water with this sensitive and enlightened crowd after all.

Shit happens sometimes. In war, in peace, in life. There has never been a war without civillian casualties. It's tragic and horrifying, but that's how it goes. Forgive me if i sound like an asshole, I don't like kids getting blown up with rockets either. Read up on this story, and play it in your mind against this guy's account. I wasn't there but you can piece it together pretty well. Do yourself the courtesy of approaching something like this objectively and you might actually come away wiser for it.

I'd like to draw attention to this quote, "a bunch of kids that got their lives and minds raped by rich assholes elected by idiots groomed to elect them who will never have any consequences for their actions". I'm sure you're talking about those poor stupid soldiers and their comic book supervillain puppet master republican overlords. The reverse of this statement is absolutely true. The forcing of the previous generation's Vietnam-era antiwar sentiment/paradigm upon the GWOT, and the subsequent foisting of its ideals upon their children is seditious and absurd. It is utterly compounded by the fact that we live in an era of near-total open-source information, but access to this information is almost totally unsupervised, allowing people to draw mostly erroneous and uninformed conclusions about serious and complex issues.

Lastly, I would offer that I sincerely doubt many of you have the balls to put yourself in the position Spc. McCord did. He may have been a naive kid who was uninformed (there are a few of those in the military) but at least he earned the right to talk about it because he saw it for himself. He didn't sit back and spew snarky political rhetoric from behind a computer screen, content to pass judgement on things that he would never fully understand.
Void 71
You don't have to worry about me. I'm indifferent to the casualties of war. You know what my reaction was when I heard about those Navy Seals who were shot down over Afghanistan? I thought 'shit happens' and finished painting my garage. That garage sure wasn't painting itself and shit certainly happens when you sign up for military service.

Gommorrah
i very well understand what is going on in the military. i understand it because i have spent literally over two hundred hours researching this topic over the course of at least three years. i have considered news stories, news aggregates, scientific studies, analysis, works that provide historical and social context, testimony from soldiers, testimony from the occupied, anecdotal evidence from the behavior and opinions of soldiers, and polls relating to the behavior and opinions of soldiers; by the high dozens in the formats of books, websites, video, magazines, and newspapers ranging from Al-Jazeera to Stars and Stripes. i've written untold pages about this topic almost every day for three years, and spent a considerable amount of type synthesizing an analysis. so yes, i think i probably have a better and broader view of the situation than some 19 year old high school graduate who has the knowledge breadth of a clam as well as the ideological basis of "fuck hajji," leading to extremely interesting and vital contributions to the analysis of the topic such "bad things happen in war!!" and other self-justifying, moron sociopathy.

i do however agree with your point about the Vietnam model being inapplicable here. i'm not really sure why you claimed as much though - i'm assuming that it's because your ideology is totally incoherent defense of the indefensible. let me explain: you spent the majority of your post defending recruits and soldiers. but then you denied the model that they are impoverished fools but have been manipulated by powerful forces. the reason why people, especially liberals, make this claim is because it softens the motivations of the soldier and removes culpability for his actions. if you deny this model you must accept one of two things: 1) that most soldiers in the late modern era joined the military for reasons primarily relating to greed, sloth and/or racist bloodlust or 2) that troops are highly intelligent and moral people who did the research and determined that Iraq was a highly intelligent and moral war. i'm not really sure which you believe but i am sure which the evidence supports

memedumpster
This is why I troll, because this kind of shit doesn't deserve an honest answer.

StanleyPain
If you have never been in the military and in combat, you cannot criticize the actions of combatants being paid with your money to enforce actions in your country's name where the lives of people you know and/or possibly love are being lost.

Got it.

Hank Friendly
Real life defies a "model" bro. In ways you do not and never will understand. All the reading and researching in the world will never be equal to fifteen minutes of the unbelievable insanity of having people shoot rockets and machine guns at you, nor will it ever bring you to the level of informed-ness required to really make an intelligent decision about international relations, let alone the inner workings of your average soldiers mind. You're an asshole, and you are wholly and completely full of shit. Intellectual Checkmate.

Gommorrah
"real life defies a 'model' bro." when i awoke today i did not expect to have the both induction and the entirety of learning from physics to sociology to punch self in face equals pain to be overturned with the appendix "bro." what a monumental time to be alive.

in all seriousness: it turns out, strangely, that fifteen minutes of people firing bullets and rockets at you does not actually open a connection to Olympus which beams Higher Truth into your brain making you an unparalleled expert in international relations or psychology. if only that were the case. it seems frankly a lot easier than all those years of all that reading and thinking. the evidence seems to indicate that being shot at doesn't actually give one much knowledge in any topic at all except "i am scared" and "my pants are moist." i'm sure you are quite aware of these phenomena without even having to leave the country, so there we go.

it's extremely easy to understand that soldiers in combat situations are scared and angry and maybe a tad embittered, and that these emotions may cause them to behave in generally predictable ways. i don't need to be shot at to understand that a series of events in which i am shot at will make me scared and angry; i know this from reading accounts to this extent as well as my being a creature capable of both empathy and reason, so i could understand the confusion.

the implication here seems to be "you can't judge soldiers for their actions because they are in a lot of danger." but being in danger is not in itself a justification for one's violent acts. a woman who shoots a potential rapist and a child molester in a shootout with police are not morally equivalent. the real question is why they are in danger and what are the circumstances surrounding this. to your credit, you recognize that they are in danger because they volunteered for it when other options were available. so no, i don't consider their danger a relevant or decent justification. how much of a completely simpering, psychotic child must one be to volunteer to be an armed combatant in an invasive war and then use the fact that people are shooting at you because you've committed atrocities to whine about just how durn mad you are about that - to justify further atrocities.


Gommorrah
or to put it another way lol being shot at makes you an unimpeachable expert in international relations. BANG BANG oh man i know how to partition Jerusalem BANG BANG BANG hey i just figured out how the japanese can improve relations with taiwan KABOOOOOOM hey guys get me a pen i got some fixes for sub-Saharan Africa

Abstract Fainter
Gomm, you are trying to argue with an idiot who is literally pulling his philosophy from Starship Troopers.

And Hank. good job on completely dismissing the whole fucked up culture of the armed forces and of the conservative war (well, chicken) hawk culture for your HOORAH SHIT HAPPENS bullshit. Just shut the fuck up and for Christ's sake don't procreate.


baleen
Woah, wait... 200 hours??? HOLY SHIT. I take everything back about my instincts telling me you're a fraud.

Sephirock
pseudo-intellectual fraud, that is! balleen pwns gommey

Gommorrah
baleen, aside from masturbating to vids of Pali death, to what have you committed 200 hours of work

Knuckles
I would suggest one of two courses of action for those of you who are without firsthand cannibalism experience and feel compelled to pass some greater judgement after watching this documentary about Jeffrey Dahmer's only surviving victim; first, I would suggest that you make an attempt to see this for what it is. This is one man's story, being exploited by a group with an unsubtle political agenda. While certainly a gripping account of what I can imagine was a harrowing personal experience, there is nothing here to suggest anything relevant to the ethics of chaining people up in your basement and slowly devouring them alive, nor is there enough contextual information to make any kind of intelligent inferrence about the methods employed. I realize this is a lot to ask; you're watching this video, becoming drawn in to this man's story, empathizing with his pain, who can really blame you for voicing your opinion? So, as a corrollary, I offer this second alternative:

Shut the fuck up because you have absolutely no god damn clue what you are talking about.

Raise your hand if you have spent time killing prostitutes. Only a few of you, right? Raise your hand if all your experience with murder, shallow graves, dead babies, and police actively trying to apprehend you has been secondhand over the last decade. Well, keeping in mind that this is the internet, I can only assume the majority of you are ex-serial killers, so maybe that argument doesnt hold water with this sensitive and enlightened crowd after all.

Shit happens sometimes. In war, in peace, in dark alleys to prostitutes. There has never been a joy killing without civillian casualties. It's tragic and horrifying and also arousing, but that's how it goes. Forgive me if i sound like an asshole, I don't like kids getting blown up with rockets either no wait actually I do. Read up on this story, and play it in your mind against this guy's account. I wasn't there but you can piece it together pretty well. Do yourself the courtesy of approaching something like this objectively and you might actually come away wiser for it.

I'd like to draw attention to this quote, "he tried to eat me alive". I'm sure you're talking about those poor stupid victims and their comic book supervillain murderers. The reverse of this statement is absolutely true. The forcing of the previous generation's Vietnam-era anti-murder sentiment/paradigm upon the GWOSK, and the subsequent foisting of its ideals upon their children is seditious and absurd. It is utterly compounded by the fact that we live in an era of near-total open-source information, but access to this information is almost totally unsupervised, allowing people to draw mostly erroneous and uninformed conclusions about serious and complex issues such as eating people alive.

Lastly, I would offer that I sincerely doubt many of you have the balls to put yourself in the position Dahmer did. He may have been a naive kid who was uninformed (there are a few of those in the ranks of people who commit sexual murder) but at least he earned the right to talk about it because he saw it for himself and ate people's penises. He didn't sit back and spew snarky political rhetoric from behind a computer screen, content to pass judgement on things that he would never fully understand. Like jerking off on a severed head.
Knuckles
INTELLECTUAL CHECKMATE!!! Got that, gommy? You will never match Hank's informed-ness.

Knuckles
POETV's buggy tonight. Or I'm clicking in all the wrong places.

BorrowedSolution
**slow clap** You sir, have earned my respect.


Burnov
Implying that you need to eat shit in order to discern that it tastes horrible.

themilkshark
rofl sir, rofl.

Screwtape

If they run, then they're Haji. If they stand still, then they're well disciplined Haji!

How can you kill women and children?

You just don't lead them so much.

War's hell ain't it?
Hank Friendly
Alea iacta est, poetv
Abstract Fainter
Interfice te, Hank.

Sephirock
what are you guys saying?

Hank Friendly
I said, "the die is cast", which was Caesar's catchphrase before he crossed the rubicon, went into rome, kicked Pompey's ass, and took shit over. Kind of like "lets see what happens next"

I'm pretty sure the other guy said he was going to kill me, but its been a while since i've looked at the latin

Abstract Fainter
It would be to much to ask for Rummy, Bush, Cheney et al. to pay for what they've done. But even if they were convicted at a war crimes tribunal there would still be a bullshit Imperialist culture around. Fuck, I don't know. Fuck everything.
memedumpster
No, there would be a bullshit imperialist culture where occasionally those kinds of fuckers hang. That is a measurable improvement and a necessary step to getting to the stage of bullshit imperialist culture where often those kinds of fuckers hang.

Hank Friendly
The really fucked up thing about people's complaints is not so much that they don't agree with the things that i'm saying, but rather that they have no desire to acquire a better picture of what is going on. As I mentioned in my original post, a lot of the problem here is that people are going to be force-fed a stream of media that they are ultimately incapable of interpreting without some kind of guidance. For all of Gommorrah's research and intelligence, I sincerely doubt if I stopped him on the street(i.e. without a computer to rapidly search for answers) and asked him to tell me about the causes for the violence in Iraq, he would almost certainly start stammering out some bullshit about George Bush and the bad ol' US Army. I don't think he would mention anything about Sunni and Shia Islam, breakdowns of ethnic groups and tribes, Arab culture, certainly not about the nature of insurgency or terrorism or any of the things I mentioned above.

The thing is, I think most of you don't want to really learn anything about it. What you want is to look at gore videos on the internet and use them to affirm your own sense of moral worth and injustice, or pat yourself on the back or something. You seek out the knowledge that supports your own beliefs and agenda, and are fed from the proverbial firehouse with extremely biased and narrow views. You are not willing to go out and figure it out the hard way, whatever that way may be. It's no different from some moron who thinks he understands hegelian dialectics because of Glenn Beck. An armchair warhawk and some stupid kid who read a wikipedia article on My Lai and both think they're experts are just as wrong as the other. You both suck.
BorrowedSolution
Haven't you learned your lesson already? Nobody's taking you seriously, here. Killing civilians is wrong, full stop. Illegal, misrepresented wars are wrong, full stop. Getting shot at doesn't give you a Ph.D. in foreign relations. Being shit-scared doesn't prepare you for anything, it actually makes you WORSE at objectively viewing a situation. That's why we don't let rape victims prosecute and sentence their attackers, you prat.

But please, keep ranting. I'd love to see Knuckles turn your nonsense into comedic gold again.

Hank Friendly
Gommorrah seems to think that he can see the inside of my mind and that the full range of my expression goes from "fuck hadji" to "oorah", and that he gained that insight from "200 hours" of "research". I suppose its my fault that i placed the rebuff to this dire and serious allegation immediately before the comment about comprehending international relations. I was saying two separate things. Let me try again:

No one among us, myself definitely included, is ever going to be well enough informed to define the Iraq war as illegal or misrepresented, or anything else. No matter how bad anyone might want their feelings to be the true and simple solution to an unbelievably complex problem, it doesn't work that way.

Pompoulus
"There is no way that you can understand war if you have not experienced it, therefore ignore the testimony of this warrior, words words words et cetera"

Knuckles
The really fucked up thing about people's complaints is not so much that they don't agree with the things that i'm saying, but rather that they have no desire to acquire a better picture of erotic cannibalism. As I mentioned in my original post, a lot of the problem here is that people are going to be force-fed a stream of media that they are ultimately incapable of interpreting without some kind of guidance. For all of Gommorrah's research and intelligence, I sincerely doubt if I stopped him on the street(i.e. without a computer to rapidly search for answers) and asked him to tell me about the meatiest parts of the human anatomy, he would almost certainly start stammering out some bullshit about how eating human beings for sexual pleasure is horrifying. I don't think he would mention anything about pan-frying vs slow-roasting calves and forearms, fashioning lampshades out of skin, vore culture, certainly not about how to properly drain a corpse of blood or any of the things I mentioned above.

The thing is, I think most of you don't want to really learn anything about it. What you want is to look at gore videos on the internet and use them to affirm your own sense of moral worth and injustice, or pat yourself on the back or something. You seek out the knowledge that supports your own beliefs and agenda, and are fed from the proverbial firehouse with extremely biased and narrow views. You are not willing to go out and figure it out the hard way, whatever that way may be (killing prostitutes with ball-peen hammers). It's no different from some moron who thinks he understands how toproperly apply clown makeup because of John Wayne Gacy. An armchair cannibal and some stupid kid who read a wikipedia article on Jeffrey Dahmer and both think they're experts are just as wrong as the other. You both suck. Neither of you have injected hydrochloric acid into the the still-living brain of a screaming 14-year-old.

Gommorrah
whether or not the iraq war was illegal or misrepresented?? no man shall ever know *reads literally nothing including jokes on Popsicle sticks*

simon666
You people write too much. And what do I mean 'you people'? I mean YOU PEOPLE. Fart.
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