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Desc:Because seeing another woman while married to her would be sinning.
Category:Religious, Horror
Tags:Christian, Pat Robertson, alzheimers, WWJD?, the responsible thing
Submitted:dead_cat
Date:09/15/11
Views:678
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Comment count is 31
erratic
Completely not the response I was expecting. Wow. How do Christian conservatives claim the moral high ground again?
Anaxagoras
That's actually not an unreasonable response. I'm not seeing the evil here.
dead_cat
She's not dead, she's got a terrible brain disease. Welcome to the Gingrich club, please leave your humanity at the door.

baleen
I don't know. If you imagine his exact words being said by Dan Savage, it's like it's not even a Pat Robertson response. Weird.

IrishWhiskey
The evil is that if this were a woman asking about her Alzheimer ridden husband he'd tell her to shut up and submit.

It's theoretically possible he's completely rejected his past lifetime of theology in which he explicitly told women they would go to hell for not marrying and obeying their rapists and abusers and instead recognized that the brain's mechanical capacity defines our identity and relationships rather than any fictional soul, but I seriously fucking doubt it.

dead_cat
I'm not saying this guy shouldn't go out and have relationships with other women, by the way. Denying him that would be being needlessly cruel to a man already experiencing the cruelties of life in ways we all try to not even think about.

It's just -- why does he need to divorce his poor, sick wife to do that?

Anaxagoras
Oh fuck you dead cat. When a brain disease wipes out the personality, memories and characteristics of a person, leaving only a drooling bodily husk, it's an open question whether or not the person you married is still alive. I'm not sure if I agre with Robertson's answer in the clip, but it is a reasonable answer.

Until you use that brain of yours to think through some of the ramifications of what Alzheimer entails, try not to spill your stupid onto the screen. Please. Do it for the children.

dead_cat
Oh, I'm sorry. Divorcing her, and running off because a terminal disease has reduced her to a living shell and left her completely dependent upon others, is so much more responsible and caring.

Anaxagoras
And to answer dead cat's question, (posted while I was typing my first response) he needs to divorce his wife because extra-marital sex is a sin, even when the person you're married to is currently a vegetable. So in order to observe the letter of the law, he needs to divorce her. However, Robertson also stipulated that he needs to ensure that his former wife is taken care of, thus satisfying the Christian ideal of kindness to your fellow human being.

Honestly, Robertson's answer was perfectly acceptable, both from a Christian perspective and a secular perspective. Baleen is absolutely correct when he says it doesn't sound like a Pat Robertson comment. But judge the comment based on its content, not who utters it.

dead_cat
- I've read the bible. In order to observe the letter of his religious law, he would be stuck celibate. And please explain to me how abandoning your wife is less of a sin than adultery.

- I don't care who says it: "abandon your dependent loved ones because staying would be really hard" is an awful thing to say. He didn't say the wife was a vegetable or a husk, either; her mental activity is unknown to us aside from her not being able to recognize her husband. This isn't him deciding to leave a potato.

- This isn't even a question from the husband, it's a question from a nosy friend who is shocked/pissed that the husband is seeing other women while married, even though his wife as he knew her is more or less gone and their marriage is no longer even remotely normal.

Baldr
You keep saying "her" like there's a person in there. Alzheimer's can last for over a decade, and by the end there's less detectable cognitive activity than a zombie. Robertson gave the perfect response, that Alzheimer's is a form of death and it's not the neighbor's right to judge.

The fact that you think this belongs here is indicative of a huge loss of perspective on your part.

Ocyrus
There is nothing like death. Death is death. If you swore an oath to be by someone's side in sickness, then you need to live up to your oath. If you do not, then you have discarded your own honor, and you should be shunned by society as not being a credible individual.

Like with your credit score, if you take out a loan, or purchase on credit and fail to live up to the terms you agreed to, then your credit score plummets. We ought to have some sort of social credit score.

Old_Zircon
I've watched a relative go through this dilemma over a period of about 15 years, eventually losing his house, his entire life savings and contact with his adult daughter in the process.

Dead Cat is a moron.

dead_cat
Wow, it's almost like Alzheimer's disease is something horrible beyond words that turns all your options into a shit sandwich.

Anaxagoras
Now you're starting to get it. No option is "good" when it comes to Alzheimer's. You have to choose between the least bad option, both practically and ethically. It's not clear which is option fits that description, but Robertson's proposed set of actions is at least a decent stab at it.

dead_cat
What do you mean "now"? I haven't changed my position.

Also, if weasel friend gets the living shit beat out of them when they try badgering the husband to divorce his wife, I will smile.

Anaxagoras
By "now" I mean your acknowledgement that all options are horrible, so judging between them is a fool's errand. If you want to go back to your retarded original position where you have the audacity to judge someone put in that impossible position, then I return to my original comment to you: fuck off.

dead_cat
I'm sorry, but WHO am I judging? The man in the scenario seems to have found a method that works for him, that helps him stay sane an care for his wife. Whether he stays with her till the end is his own business, but if he's stayed this long, I seriously doubt he would divorce for anything short of necessity. He's not the one I'm judging.

Pat Robertson is the one saying that this man should divorce his wife -- not for necessity, but *convenience*. As I've already said, the husband seems to have found something that works for him. It's Robertson saying that the husband needs to divorce her because his own interpretation of Christian law -- which, incidentally, follows neither the letter nor the spirit of it -- can't stand things as they are. And again, I can't understand why the husband is expected to leave his wife just so he can see other women, or why Robertson seems to think that would be the most moral or compassionate action.

This is a question Pat should have passed on -- there is no answer he could have given that wouldn't either piss off xtian assholes, or make him sound like a ghoul.

Corpus Delectable
"But isn't that the vow that we take when we marry someone? It's for better or for...."

"Yeah, well, shut up, bitch. Respect the weenis. Insubordinate whore."
Jet Bin Fever
WOW. EVIL. I certainly didn't see that shit coming
kamlem
Till death or inconvenient illness do us part.
Xenocide
I HATE Alzheimer's!
Dinanukht
Here's the full clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZoDMGe5ffw

It seems to me Robertson actually passes on the question. He ends it by saying "get some ethicist besides me to give you an answer." (Which, by the way, is the sanest thing the man has ever said: literally no one in their right mind would ask Pat Robertson for advice on personal matters).

While I can appreciate the glimmer of moral humility here, it's a bumbling, flippant and nearly incomprehensible answer that exposes an underlying hypocrisy in his ethos. The good news is that the one or two people left who still take Robertson seriously will probably be in an uproar over this.

But pick a clip from his show at random and you'll find something more evil than this.
wackyakmed
That was one of the most rational and responsible things I've heard the man say.

My grandparents went through the exact same situation, but my grandpa had the emotional support of our family and friends, as well as being terminally ill himself. He chose to stay faithful, but I really couldn't fault a person for breaking the other way. If I was the one with Alzheimer's, I'd tell my wife to consider me dead by the time I reached vegetable stage.
Pompoulus
I think the problem is that the guy seems to have found something that works for him (sleeping around and caring for his vegetable wife), but some weasel neighbor and Pat have decided it's sinful and it would be more virtuous for him to just leave his wife entirely.

Still this is not anywhere on the audible spectrum of Pat Robertson evil. This is like a Pat Robertson evil dog whistle.

Quad9Damage
Oh, your 'friend' huh? Right, sure.

I'm surprised Pat's advice wasn't "This is a very common problem. All I will say is that you have a pillow and the element of surprise. Go for it."



TeenerTot
When she gets to heaven and is reunited with her mental capacity, she is gonna be pissed.
Screwtape
Old people sex is disgusting anyway. You're not missing anything gramps.
Rudy
Whoo-hoo! Someone's getting some action tonight!
dairyqueenlatifah
Wow...I would NOT have expected that response from Pat Robertson.
MagickPoultry
Okay, but wouldn't it have made more sense for Pat to just faith-heal her through the airwaves like usual?
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