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Desc:Report from Human Rights Watch
Category:Crime, Military
Tags:Ukraine, War Crime, Cluster Bombs, Human Rights Watch
Submitted:SolRo
Date:10/25/14
Views:1415
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Comment count is 20
baleen - 2014-10-25
This is a truly effective way of controlling russians. I'm glad the good guys have such awesome firepower.
SolRo - 2014-10-26
Hey, it's the Zionist murder cheerleader!

Not surprised you're still a human tumor.

EvilHomer - 2014-10-26
His pompoms are made of bloody matzah balls!

Anyway, it's pretty tame compared to what we did to the Japs and the Russians did the Germans. It's also worth noting that cluster munitions are used by pretty much everyone in the region, most notably Russia, and HRW stated *in these very reports* that they strongly suspect the villainous Russian separatists of having used cluster munitions recently, too.

EvilHomer - 2014-10-26
Hell, watch the video you just posted. A lot of this video is just emotional fluff, but there's trenchant information between 0:20-0:30 and then again from 3:08 on. They have reason to suspect (though no conclusive evidence) that *some* of the munitions were fired by Ukrainian forces. Furthermore, at 4:35 he points out that the Ukraine is NOT a signator of the Convention on Cluster Munitions. Neither is *Russia*, which, notably, was and still is the main opponent of the cluster munitions ban. If cluster munitions really are so bad, Mr SolRo, then maybe you should ask your boy Putin to declare them illegal?

(the claim that it is a "war crime" to use cluster munitions is actually false, as non-signator nations are not bound by the terms of the treaty. A "war dick move", maybe, but not technically a crime, and no one will ever be prosecuted for it.)

baleen - 2014-10-26
I don't care about any of that analysis stuff. I'm all about killing Russians because it's either one or the other in my opinion.

Oscar Wildcat - 2014-10-26
No more of that backwards 20th century thinking, you Red Sea pedestrian! If I've learned anything from Gamergate, it's to kill _all_ men, regardless of race color or creed, with the utmost respect for their gender identities.

EvilHomer - 2014-10-26
God creates dinosaurs, God destroys dinosaurs. God creates man, man destroys God. Man creates cluster munitions, cluster munitions BLOW UP man... wimmin inherit the earth.

jangbones - 2014-10-25
I bet if you are a Senior Researcher for Human Rights Watch, you could use that to get a crazy amount of pussy.
EvilHomer - 2014-10-26
http://www.hrw.org/node/79681/section/20
baleen - 2014-10-26
OH DAMN THIS VIDEO ALMOST MADE ME CARE ABOUT RUSSIANS BUT NOW THE SUBTLETIES OF THIS SITUATION ARE BLOWING MY MIND

Binro the Heretic - 2014-10-26
I'm kind of torn on this one. I'm firmly anti-war and pro-peace, but I also think it's stupid to impose limits on how horrible someone can be in a war.

It's war. War means killing people. There's no "good" way to kill people. Whether they're shredded to bloody bits, gassed, quickly executed with a single bullet or burned to ashes the end result is still a lot of dead people.

The more horrible war is, the more people will want to avoid it or end it quickly.
SolRo - 2014-10-26
at least 100,000 Iraqis were directly killed by US forces, including by cluster and chemical munitions....how much of that have you seen?

it doesn't matter how horrible you make war, governments will still whitewash it for domestic consumption.



The separatists have been showing how horrible war is, all the mangled corpses of civilians, their own and the enemy, and are denounced for it.

EvilHomer - 2014-10-26
Mr SolRo, did you *not* realize that war was horrible until the pro-Russian separatists told you this was so? Is it only horrible when Ukrainians engage in war, or is it horrible for both sides? And is it not true that the Russian government is whitewashing it's own actions, not merely for domestic consumption, but also for foreign consumption, through the use of propaganda channels like RT?

Again, it's a demonstrated fact that cluster munitions are one of the Russian military's favorite weapons, and have been used by Russian forces in all of their recent wars of aggression, including Chechnya, Georgia, and if the Human Rights Watch is to be believed, the Ukraine as well. In fact, Russia is currently the wold's leading supplier of these ethically questionable munitions, and the weapons systems presumably used by Ukrainian peacekeepers against their own cities, were both built in, and sold to them by, Russia herself!

Binro - you raise some good points. However, the key problem with cluster munitions specifically is *unexploded ordnance*. Not all bombs go off like they're supposed to. When you've dropped one big bomb on an area, it's relatively easy to tell when something goes wrong, and it's a straightforward matter to send in EOD and dispose of the ordnance. But when you've got a hundred *different* bombs dropping on that same area, things are a hundred times more complicated. You're far more likely to see individual sub-munitions remaining behind, raising the difficulty for EOD teams and vastly increasing the likelihood that an unexploded bomb will remain, unnoticed, until some old man or a little schoolgirl sets it off weeks, months, or even years after the conflict.

In other words, cluster munitions aren't merely horrible, they actually prolong the war, and make it far more likely that innocent civilians will be killed even after the conflict has ended.

EvilHomer - 2014-10-26
As an example, I remember my grandparents talking about bombs from the German Blitz exploding years, even decades, after the end of WWII; there are still some parts of the UK that are off-limits to the public owing to the fear of unexploded ordnance (including a park ravine in my dad's hometown), and a couple years ago an intact Nazi bomb was found in downtown London. Fortunately (?), the bomb was pretty fucking big, so construction crews noticed it right away and were able to seal off the area. But can you imagine if London had been seeded with tens of thousands of barely noticeable mini-bombs?

It's a very similar reason to why people oppose landmines.

Old People - 2014-10-26
Homer, why do you argue with SolRo? He's the most hateful hippie since Rasputin, and much like Rasputin, he cannot be killed.

StanleyPain - 2014-10-26
Wait, Russia Today said we can't be upset about this because USA BAD, so nothing to see here.
Gmork - 2014-10-26
Baleen and Solro - idiots made for each other.
baleen - 2014-10-27
whoosh

Sexy Duck Cop - 2014-10-26
What I love about this is that a few months ago SolRo laughed off the idea of an imperial Russia as a lunatic conspiracy theory and is now complaining about how invading Russian troops, who according to Russia do not exist because there is no invasion please just ignore these massive columns of armored personnel carriers because they're full of diapers and baguettes, are being unfairly repelled.

Maybe if Russia doesn't want to get cluster bombed it shouldn't fucking invade sovereign nations on the grounds of "I can do whatever I want."
SolRo - 2014-10-26
Wow. You are retarded.

How are you idiots conflating civilians getting bombed with cluster munitions as "Oh solro thinks the Russian army is being treated badly"?

Did your stupid ass even watch the video? Are the -Ukrainian- civilians that got killed and maimed now part of your imaginary invading Russian army?



Fuck. You're so dumb it hurts my brain.

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