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Desc:Two perspectives on the PizzaGate matter.
Category:Educational, News & Politics
Tags:Child abuse, twitter, PizzaGate, Trumps America
Submitted:EvilHomer
Date:12/05/16
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Comment count is 40
Cena_mark
Millions of people believe in this theory, yet adherents to this theory can't grasp the fact that one of them would try to take the law into his own hands and try to stop the alleged pedophilia ring. Nope, it was a crisis actor... like always.
EvilHomer
For the last couple weeks I've been going around Youtube, looking for enthusiastic PizzaGaters and engaging them in rational discussion and constructive debate!

Or should I say, trying my best to, because to my surprise many of these PizzaGaters seem to be quite touchy; prone to emotional outbursts and most unwilling to either formulate or respond to carefully-worded, logical arguments. One young gentleman, for example, I've had a good week of correspondence with, and in all that time (despite my repeated entreaties) he has failed to produce even a single source or scrap of evidence to support his contentions. Not a single one! I've been called "libtard" and "demonic" and told "you fucking people are all the same", sometimes more than once in a single response, but it has been surprisingly difficult thus far to tease out the basic logic and reasoning with which they reached their position.

I tell you, Mark, these PizzaGaters - at times it's as if I'm dealing with a community composed entirely of SolRos...!

I remain optimistic and open-minded, and while the PizzaGaters I have interacted with are certainly... let's say, "enthusiastically high-strung", I do not believe any of them will go into Vigilante Mode. Half of them do not even appear to know whom the suspects are, or at any rate have a very difficult time keeping the lists of supposed guilty parties and supposed crimes straight, and with such poor organizational skills, I can't imagine their community would be able to coordinate a citizen's arrest, even if they wanted to.

EvilHomer
What really gets me is the enthusiasm people have for PizzaGate - a case which quickly falls apart upon skeptical examination - is far greater than the enthusiasm they can muster for genuine cases of child sex trafficking - such as the Hastert scandal (which FBI whistleblowers allege goes far deeper than what he was prosecuted for) and the Jeffrey Epstein case (which has the potential to jeopardize not just the Democratic Party leadership, but also the Republican leadership, the corporate media, the academic world, the British royal family, and Donald Trump himself). If they put even half the time and effort into dredging up dirt on Epstein as do on trading innocuous Instagram pictures, some serious good might be done.

Worse still, PizzaGate is beginning to get picked up by the MSM, and it is turning into a cause celebre for adherents of this neo-McCarthyite "Russian propaganda/Fake News" movement, which has become all the rage amongst those whose financial and political livelihoods are threatened by the open internet, and who stand to benefit from online censorship. Hell, even InfoWars - which is usually all over this kind of stuff - won't touch PizzaGate at all. They will use PizzaGate for tantalizing clickbaity headlines, but if you watch their coverage they tend to say nothing materially-supportive regarding PizzaGate, while carefully avoiding making any sorts of claims which might be considered libelous, i.e. all of them. So basically, these poor PizzaGaters are undermining their own ability to speak freely, while the journalists whom one would expect to be their allies are quietly abandoning them - and not one of these brave, stupid, noble fools seems to notice the real danger they are in!

EvilHomer
And in case anyone was curious, here are a few of the most oft-cited arguments and pieces of evidence which I have encountered so far:

o- In a few emails, John Podesta talks about "pizza" - which is 8chan slang for underage pornography! (this is the argument which got PizzaGate started)
o- John Podesta is a fan of a Serbian painter who posted a few mildly creepy paintings to her website! (this one is usually accompanied by fanciful embellishments about what the paintings depict, obviously concocted by people who have never bothered to look at the paintings)
o- Podesta, who in previous years has appeared on film cooking walnut sauce, mentions walnut sauce in his emails, which is apparently slang for gay black orgies (?)
o- Comet Ping Pong's Instagram was friended by people who had posted pictures of their own children to their family Instagram accounts! (weird!)
o- An Instagram follower once made a joke about a walk-in freezer looking like a kill room!
o- James Alefantis' name sounds somewhat vaguely, but not really, like "I love children" in French!
o- Podesta and Alefantis both own handkerchiefs; gay BDSM enthusiasts also own handkerchiefs!

and so forth.

EvilHomer
Oh, and my favorite one:

o- Local punk bands play all-ages shows at Comet PingPong!

Damning evidence of an international child trafficking ring, if I ever heard it.

Cena_mark
They can't coordinate a vigilante mission, that's why this was a lone wolf job. I'm sure the events would work wonderfully for a black comedy. Guy shoots some rounds into the ceiling, "Where's the secret door to the basement, I'm saving the children!"

EvilHomer
Bonus points if he shows up in a Cool Cat costume!

Lurchi
PAN pizza

think about it -- Pan the horned pagan god of lust!

Maggot Brain
Let's not forget that "Pizza" sounds like "Plaza" as in Aubrey Plaza :O who played and underage girl who dated a 25 year old Chris Pratt :O In the NBC sitcom Parks and Rec :O which we all know is DNC propaganda!!!!

Oscar Wildcat
Interesting stuff, EH. I only found out about this the other day, when they did an interview with the guy on the radio.

Here's a thought for you. It's been the received wisdom of geeks that if you could only get rid of your emotions, like Mr. Spock, you'd be happy and productive and make all the right decisions. Well, thanks to the wonders of brain cancer, there was actually such a person. This guy was an accountant, middle class, wife and kids. One day, he had some medical issues, and was diagnosed with a brain tumor in his frontal lobes. The surgery to remove it went without incident, and at first, he seemed perfectly normal. But it began to become apparent that this was not the case. He had great difficulty making choices. He'd consider signing a contract with one of two pens, red and black. Now the red ink pen was lower, but the black wouldn't look good against the contract color, etc etc. This would go on for a hour with no resolution. So, back to the neurologist, who noticed in addition that even for an accountant, this guy was exhibiting a flat affect. So he was hooked up to the Clockwork Orange Ludovico machines, and lo and behold, he had no emotional reactions to any of the violent, sexually charged images he was exposed to. His mind was completely disconnected from his emotional body. And as a consequence, he was unable to value one result over another.

So it seems, when we make a decision, we do it with our emotions, not our logic. It doesn't seem like such a monumental discovery, but it does fly in the face of our received wisdom, no? And it sort of gets at why we have these emotions in the first place. Something needs to apply value to a set of results, and it's not a logical operation.

Think back to those discussions we had about IQ. I was getting at this exact thing, that the tests only seem to measure symbol manipulation and not value attribution. It certainly fits with the observation that very high IQ individuals often have great difficulty functioning in the world.

As to the accountant, he lost his job, his marriage disintegrated, and his life was ruined. So much for pure logic.

I'll leave it to you to apply this observation to fake news and pizzagate.

EvilHomer
Mr Wildcat - Oh, yeah, I've made that point re: emotions and descision-making many times (it may have gptten lost in my usual stream of tl;dr). We are definitely not creatures of reason, not even the smartest amongst us - which is one of the reasons why I am so fond of pedantry, critical thinking, and arguing both sides of any issue! Rational descision making is a difficult and unnatural process, one which we cannot "just do", and must instead actively work towards, each and every day of our lives!

However, I am going to have to pause here, because I'm not entirely sure which direction you are arguing from. Do you mean to say that you believe the PizzaGater's fault lies with being TOO logical and analytical, leaving out (like the man in your anecdote) the emotional component which is so critical to descision making? Or do you believe that the PizzaGaters are NOT logical enough, having completely abandoned any pretense of sober analysis, giving themselves fully over to their base emotions?

EvilHomer
Also, aside: I don't buy the Fake News forced-meme whatsoever. I will not even deem it worthy of consideration until somebody can come up with an actual definition for "Fake News", and then give a valid explanation as to why the word doesn't seem to get applied to daytime television, political entertainment media, or mainstream reporting on anything other than cat memes.

The term "fake news" is to the dying, Foundation-funded media establishment what the term "off-brand" is to overpriced designer-jeans manufacturers. The fact that "Fake News" proponents would want to wrap their negative branding campaign in a cloak of Red Scare paranoia and tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is just more proof of what Space Odin said below: the whole world deserves PizzaGate and what's coming.

Oscar Wildcat
That right there is the problem. You can exercise the logical muscle until the cows come home, and it won't help. What's needed is to strengthen this other thing, the associative engine. What goes in to it? How does it work? About this shockingly little is known.

EvilHomer
So you're saying PizzaGate is the result of PizzaGaters having too much logic...?

Oscar Wildcat
It's not the logical ability that's broken. Too much or little, does not matter.

EvilHomer
"Broken" in what sense? Logical ability is "broken" in the sense that people aren't using enough of it these days, but it is NOT broken in the sense that logical ability is less valuable than emotional reaction, nor that emotional non-reasoning should be pursued yet further (unless you believe that most human beings are lost causes, fit only to serve as braindead slaves to we few polysyllabic Philosopher Kings)

Due to a number of factors (such as bad education and an irresponsible culture), people rely far too much on their emotions, and are either too unconcerned with, or else literally incapable of engaging in, good old-fashioned logical reasoning! PizzaGate is a perfect example of this: in the weeks that I have spent embedded within their community, perhaps the most striking observation I have made is that their entire movement seems to be fueled by tantrums and emotional-insecurity. They are remarkably fragile, almost like the dreaded "SJWs" (albeit with grosser beards). Few of these rabid Pizzers have any interest in or experience with logical reasoning - and when they are presented with facts or arguments that run contrary to their own beliefs, then instead of presenting different facts or better arguments (as a logical thinker would do), they just get angry and dig in deeper. It's classic irrational behavior, and they cannot break free.

The problem here is irrationality, and the only blame which rationality can shoulder is that there is not enough of it!

EvilHomer
Take me, for example. *My emotions* tell me that PizzaGate is true - or at the very least, both reasonable and likely. I have no love for Mr Podesta, I enjoy seeing authority figures undermined, and given all the dirt that Hillary Clinton has demonstrably engaged in over the years, it would not surprise me in the least if she were running a Satanic child sex trafficking ring. In fact, I'd be MORE surprised if she WASN'T.

But I do not let my initial emotional feelings dictate where my allegiances lie. I examine the issue critically, I weigh the evidence, I try my best to find strong arguments for both sides - and in the end, PizzaGate comes out sorely lacking. Now, there are a few positive things one can say here - for example, there is indeed strong circumstantial evidence that John Podesta is a cannibal-fetishist. He's clearly got a bizarre interest in cannibalism, and it's very likely that this interest is sexual in nature, yet there is no evidence to suggest that he is (or ever was) a *practicing* cannibal, and even if he WERE a practicing cannibal, it still would not follow that he must therefore also be a child sex trafficker - but regardless of a few gold nuggets dredged up by the PizzaGate investigation, the bulk of their contentions are completely without merit.

I ask you this: Would it have been better for me to have just gone off of my initial emotional prejudices? Or would it, instead, have been better if the PizzaGaters had done what I did, and made an effort to think critically?

Waugh
i was pizzadrome's first victim
Raggamuffin
long live the new cheese


Raggamuffin
(b^_^)b

yogarfield
Ragga yes

Xenocide
I like this new bizzaro logic world conservatives live in now, where scientific theories backed by decades of rock-solid evidence are hoaxes, but conspiracy theories backed by Hillary Clinton Facebook fanfiction are real.
Bootymarch
I just can't do it anymore, man. All I get out of these people these days is hatred and depression, and then disappointment for letting it get to me.

Remember when we thought once the baby boomers up and left that discourse would improve for the better? When talking shit about the mainstream media, corruption, etc. actually felt constructive? The well is just so poisoned now.

Waugh
http://www.animalhi.com/thumbnails/detail/20121101/watchmen%20silk %20spectre%20the%20comedian%20nite%20owl%20ozymandias%20dr%20manha ttan%201680x1050%20wallpaper_www.animalhi.com_16.jpg

baleen
I was lurking 8chan and yes they do think it's a false flag.
Absolutely no connection with the world around them.
simon666
Maybe in a post-truth world everyone who believes in conspiracy theories just need to be accused of raping and murdering a girl in 1990 and forced prove otherwise.
That guy
stars

Gmork
First I'm hearing of it. Don't think I want to listen to 15 minutes of this prick just to find out what's going on, though.
Waugh
that's awfully ironic considering you're the one whose prick is literally unlistenable

jfcaron_ca
Indeed, Gmork's penis has such a horrible sounds that I cannot understand. When it talks I need to leave the room, it is unlistenable.

Gmork
I am proud to be waugh's mirror. Shit job, but someone has to do it.

Waugh
apeman's mirror on the wall
who's the noest u of all?

Maggot Brain
XD
Omg, Pizzagate is the same plot as Five Nights at Freddie's!
baleen
I didn't make that connection at first. man, people are stupid.

Waugh
wait, five nights at freddie's is about uncovering a child sex ring?

baleen
kids getting lured into and murdered in a pizza place, close enough.

Maggot Brain
If you subscribe to the theory that you are playing as the Purple Man, then yes, to an extent.

Space Odin
Sometimes I think this fucking world deserves what's coming to it.

Not everyone and everything that lives in it, mind you. But it's tainted enough.
Scrotum H. Vainglorious
I say bring on the next mass extinction event pronto.

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