|Cleaner82 - 2008-12-19 |
People should just do this kind of thing in the privacy of their own home if they feel they absolutely have to -- perhaps to a mirror, or a poster, or a wall. And never ever share what they have done.
Also: "I don't believe in god." is agnostic. "I believe there is no god." is athiestic. I have to tell this to the athiest?
The recruitment guy came by the other day and told me I fit the bill, but I don't know. I'm not ready to commit. Do you have a pamphlet?
No, I was just correcting your spelling. I don't care what people believe as long as they stay off my lawn.
Oh, right. Thanks.
If anything though I'd imagine you'd want more atheists, as an atheist has no natural defense against Jewish sorcery.
Klaatu verata necktie.
"I don't believe in god." is atheistic. "I have no way of knowing whether or not there is a god" is agnostic.
I have to tell this to the Jewish Sorceror?
There can be a good deal of overlap between agnosticism and atheism, as I understand it. You don't have to explicitly deny the existance of god, gods, deities, or what have you to be an atheist.
So, "I don't believe in god" can be both an atheistic and agnostic statement at the same time. Hell, by some definitions you can still be Christian (following the teachings of Jesus) without expressly believing in god.
"I believe there is no god" is atheistic, but you don't have to agree with the statement to be an atheist.
I agree with Meerkat that "I have no way of knowing whether or not there is a god" is a good way of summing up agnosticism, in contrast to atheism and theism. By this definition you could even be a religious agnostic. For example: an agnostic Christian would believe in god, but admit that s/he has no way of proving god's existence one way or another.
After a short conversation, you can get most atheists to admit that they're actually more agnostic than anything. Likewise, you can get a lot of religious folk to admit that they can't prove or disprove the existence of god too, but I've never been able to get any of them to admit to being agnostic. In my experience, religious folk like their titles.
Extra star because this conversation is interesting, but otherwise I can't stand the Amazing Atheist. I'm glad he has something approaching a friend to talk to, but watching his videos, even ironically, feels a little too much like hanging out with him myself.
Nobody can stand the amazing atheist. He did however use door to door corn dog peddling as an analogy to religious conversion, which is part of why he belongs here.
Well here was my train of thought. Bear with me. Or not.
"I don't believe in god" doesn't imply belief in anything. If someone showed you a box and said, "Do you believe there's a cupcake in the box?" and you said, "No," it doesn't mean you're going to be surprised if there is, it simply means you aren't confident there is. However if you said, "I believe there is no cupcake in the box," then that implies not simply a lack of confidence in the presence of a delicious cupcake, but also a confidence in the ABSENCE of a cupcake. To me that certainty in the other direction is what seperates atheism and agnosticism.
What about "I'm almost positive that there is no god or any metaphysical omnipotent being out there, but since it can't be proven without a doubt I have to admit there is a slight chance of one existisg."
I'd consider that point of view Athiest. I meant just because you can't disprove something doesn't mean it's at all likely.
Cleaner82: You just have to break down the words themselves to get a clearer understanding of what they mean.
Theism = belief in gods. A-theism = no belief in gods. Whether you say "I don't believe in gods" or "I believe there are no gods," it falls under the atheism category.
Gnosis = knowledge. A-gnostic = lacking knowledge. "I don't have any way of knowing whether or not gods exist" is a pretty good way of summing up most modern agnostics' feelings. "I don't care to know whether gods exist" is another point of view.
Atheists and agnostics can overlap quite a lot, as most people who don't have any belief in gods--whether they simply "don't believe" or actively believe there are none--also acknowledge that humanity probably has no way of knowing for sure, while most agnostics don't live their lives as if gods exist, which in effect puts them into the "I don't believe in gods" category. It's a very blurred line.
I hope that helps some.
Cleaner, I think we're in agreement. To explicit disbelief or denial of the existence or possible existence of god is solely in the realm of atheism. Someone who is certain that there is no god is atheist, and can not also be considered agnostic. However, it's not the only stance of atheism, and other stances overlap with agnosticism.
As DevilsDictionary mentioned, there are some atheists who don't believe in god but who think its possible. Some haven't made up their mind whether there is or isn't a god or multiple gods, and some haven't decided _which_ is the "right one".
What distinguishes these "weak" atheists from agnostics is that they believe the evidence is out there, you just have to know where to look. Agnostics think such a search is probably futile.
I'm an agnostic atheist. I find it highly unlikely that a divine being exists, but more importantly, I don't think you could ever really know for sure. Given that, I don't see the point in believing in a god, so I don't. Even if I saw some benefit in believing in a god, I don't think I actually could no matter how hard I tried, unless there was adequate evidence.
The "atheist" part of "agnostic atheist" is there because I go about my daily life on the assumption that there is no god. I don't say prayers just-in-case, I don't try to stay on every god's good side, I assume that none of that makes any difference. If I should die and find myself punished by the "real" god for not following the right path in life, then so be it, I did my best.
Woo! Block of text that's not trolling! I don't think I have anymore to add, thanks fellas.
|coprolalia - 2008-12-19 |
The Youtube Wars continued well into the next century.
|CornOnTheCabre - 2008-12-19 |
i love the YOU CANT HAVE MORALS WITHOUT RELIGION argument, because it really does bring out the biggest, most embarrassing idiots on both sides
|TeflonDoc - 2008-12-20 |
Errol Flynstash + Chin Pubes = Goatboy.
|dead_cat - 2008-12-20 |
Why oh why wasn't TheAmazingAtheist strangled at birth?
|Cena_mark - 2008-12-20 |
He's wrong in that religion doesn't give hope because its based on myth. If one is a true believer in said religion, then he gets hope, he gets meaning, he gets purpose.
I miss having that hope and purpose. I was a religious man, but now I am unable to believe. I wish I could believe again, but I can't even if I try. I really do miss the the hope.
I consider myself an agnostic theist. But since that lacks any answers I just feel lost.
Hi beleen, do you share a similar spiritual conundrum?
do you not believe in god anymore because he elected a black president
No this was before Obama.
|mountain dew insimination - 2008-12-20 |
Even they are God's work.
|bacrie - 2008-12-20 |
Pat Condell always favorites this guy's shit and it drives me crazy.
I mean I get it, any publicity is good publicity and low expectations for Americans but seriously could you find a better Bright figurehead than this squat little weasel?
|EvilHomer - 2008-12-21 |
I like how, despite all the anger and wounded indignation that God fellow's "atheism provides no hope" comment elicited, Beardo Atheist winds up agreeing with his point anyway.
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