|Hegemony Cricket - 2013-01-28 |
Inevitable Quote from welovejakeevans.tumblr.com -----------
Heís not sane. Heís mentally ill, obvi.
Iím not trying to justify that itís okay to kill a person just because the voices in your head tell you to do so, but then again, the voices in your head told you to do so.
Youíre not mentally ill, you donít know how it fucking feels like. So unless, youíre on his level of legit cray, you donít have the right to judge him.
You donít know how it was like to live in that family, and you know how the media works. How sure are you that theyíre not making him out to be the one to totally blame for this?
What if youíre just hung over a personal biased?
What if there was a history theyíre not telling us? What if he was abused or something as a kid. What if his sister WAS the biggest bitch you canít even imagine. Just what ifÖ
If you didnít personally know him or his story, then youíre just playing into mediaís hands.
Flat affect voice always makes me wince.
|James Woods - 2013-01-28 |
I wish I could call that 911 lady just to chat.
Maybe you could try killing someone, too?
Get caught for once, you mean?
|William Burns - 2013-01-28 |
Good job, dispatcher! I would have needed MDMA to have remained so empathetic.
|Maru - 2013-01-28 |
Children and Teenagers have nothing in them to tell them not to do things like this. They act on any number of capricious whims without rational, or even emotional justification. That's what this is. He watched a movie where a kid killed his family, a thing clicked in his head, and he thought "I could do that", and so he toyed with the idea for a while, hit some golf balls in the backyard, mulled it over. Of course, the little angel appeared on his shoulder, and said "but I love my mom and sister", but like many children, he didn't love them 'that' much, and he had built this thing up in his mind to the point where he felt obligated, as if on a dare, so he nerved himself up and did it.
He just wanted to see what it was like. For him it was murder, but for other teens it might be drugs, or sex, or playing in a band, or trying out for the football team, etc. When people don't know what they are, they'll throw all kinds of spaghetti at the wall to see what will stick.
Uh, we were all teenagers once... so... this actually tells us more about you than teenagers in general.
I think I just have a longer memory than you.
I was a LOT less prone to violence, both in thought and in action, when I was a teenager. I hardly ever even responded defensively to violence against me. It took military training as a young adult to create the violent habits and thought patterns I sometimes experience today. Video games and movies did nothing to influence my behavior. Violent thoughts, at least for me, are linked directly to deliberate conditioning by authority figures.
What I'm saying is I am normal and you are a crazy autistic murderer.
Wait, you're a cat so of course you can kill without feeling. Sorry!
wb: by your own admission, you're gomer pyle from full metal jacket, there's no way i'm crazier than you.
Why don't we wait until at least one of us kills their family before we try having this conversation?
I'm not the one saying that I know how this kid feels. Normal people have a hard time contextualizing and engaging in violence. It takes conditioning and habit. This kid is bananas and if you know how he feels then so are you.
wb: Normal people do not have a hard time "contextualizing" violence--what kind of psychobabble nonsense is that? Regular people engage in all sorts of violent fantasies all the time, often without even realizing they're doing it. Talk to any working class asshole long enough, and you'll hear all about how they should've kicked this or that person's ass, or how rapists or gang members should be executed, etc.
This might be arguable if we were talking about a two-year-old. This kid is fucking seventeen.
No, Maru, it's just you. When I was 15 I would spend hours picking worms out of puddles so they wouldn't drown and gave my lunch money to homeless people. You apparently had untreated mental problems.
At first I thought I was understanding, but now I realize I'm just not a total pussy. I can see how this would be strange to POE-ers.
You think the only option outside of being a pussy is randomly killing family members on a whim.
"I hardly ever even responded defensively to violence against me."
"I couldn't return a punch in the face when I was a kid."
"I've never actually punched anyone. Ever."
"When I was 15 I would spend hours picking worms out of puddles so they wouldn't drown."
If you have a congenital fear and abhorrence of violence in even its most benign forms, you'll never understand why anyone does anything even remotely anti-social. Under these terms, your histrionic reaction makes sense, but I wouldn't mistake it for the norm. The world isn't made up of liberal humanist sissies.
If you feel connected to other human beings, you don't severely hurt them, and that applies even to teenagers. Only when people view other groups or individuals as "different" or "lesser" does severe violence come into play. For most people, including both liberal humanist sissies and neo-conservative war hawks, you have to push somebody into the category of subhuman before you'd consider putting a gun to their head.
Maru, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your parents probably sucked at empathy. They didn't know or care what was important to you, or how you were feeling, growing up. They didn't model empathy for you, so it was hard for you to connect with or care deeply other people. That's why the idea of severe violence, even on family members, is accessible to you.
If I'm right, my heart goes out for you. I had it pretty bad myself, and I had to piece together as an adult what it means to genuinely connect with others. The people in this thread do indeed remember what it was like for them as teenagers; they just had a vastly different childhood experience, growing up with parents who were capable of empathy.
1.) You guys keep trotting out these warmed-over Hannah Arendt cliches about institutional violence, as if interpersonal violence could be reduced to the same set of hack truisms. Far from prohibiting expressions of violence, empathy is often a prime motivator for crimes such as these. It's not so uncommon for people to hurt the ones they love precisely because they know how bad it will make them feel. You can't even have proper sadism without empathy.
2.) You are seriously going out on a limb. I'll even admit to being offended by your presumption, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend there are rules after I called you all congenital pussies. I just hope you're not seriously kidding yourself about your "heart going out to me"--that was easily one of the more vicious things anyone has ever said to me online.
1) I don't believe that I ever said or hinted that institutional violence was the blame for anything. I'm coming from my understanding of psychologist Jeffrey Young's model of personality disorders. His application of the model, Schema Therapy, is pretty much the only the thing out there that has met significant clinical success in treating personality disorders, such as those found in violent offenders. If you're of scientific persuasion, you know that means it's likely to be our most accurate model.
Sadism generally manifests itself as a dominance/submission thing, along with a great deal of trust and intimacy. I've seen instances where it was oddly sort of heartwarming. Hurting someone you love because you're mad at them is an ocean away from severe violence; when there's empathy and connection, things are kept proportional.
2) My intention wasn't to offend you, and I don't understand what was vicious about what I wrote. I'm guessing you interpreted it as being insincere, laced with contempt, or dismissive, and if that were true, it would indeed be an evil thing to say. However, the idea of you having had a shit childhood did and does sincerely make me sad, and in terms of respect, I think you're one of the more cerebrally competent people on the site. My issue is with your understanding of violence, which both lacks humanity and is grossly inaccurate.
|urbanelf - 2013-01-28 |
19:59 "I didn't want them to feel any pain. That's why I used a gun."
|Adham Nu'man - 2013-01-28 |
I took 911 calls for a while. When you get a surreal call like this you start thinking it's probably a prank, but of course you have to act assuming it isn't and just collect the information.
As she was taking the call, probably reports from the neighbors came in regarding gunshots coming from the same address, so that information must have been relayed to her at some point and at that moment she must have known that it wasn't bullshit. Once pretty certain that this kid had actually murdered his family, she started extracting a detailed testimony from him. She was really really professional.
Poor fucked up kid and poor family.
Thanks for the glimpse into that, I always had the suspicion that it was a thankless underpaid job.
Jet Bin Fever
Yep, suspicion confirmed here too. No one mentions them either, unlike 'heroic' firefighters and cops, even though they're the first link in the chain of events.
Hey, I was outsourced, in Latin America, they paid me an hour. Hoorray for Capitalism!
|dairyqueenlatifah - 2013-01-28 |
Oh look, another shooting with another legally owned gun.
His written confession has been made public. He says the terrible 2007 Rob Zombie remake of Halloween made him do it.
"My plan was to kill my sister and my mom at my house and then go over to my grandparents and kill my oldest sister, Emily, and my two grandparents. Then I was going to wait until morning and kill my other sister, Audrey, because she was visiting from college,"
Fuck, this ruined my evening. Why did I listen?
Good god, my younger brother will turn 17 soon, and is at home all day with my parents, home schooled. He sounds just like this kid too.
Hold on now, he didn't say the movie made him do it. I've seen that headline being thrown around but it's a small, incidental part of his confession. He mentioned he watched Family Guy too; maybe Family Guy made him do it.
I'm cool with blaming Family Guy if you guys are.
It's funny how you see "guns" as the problem and not "crazy person".
This is why I shake my head - the kid was "inspired" by a fucking rob zombie movie as much as he was "inspired" by the voices in his head. And you think GUNS were the issue here? He was going to do it anyways, he chose a gun because it was less painful than a knife.
Once again: HE WAS GOING TO DO IT ANYWAYS. Thanks for paying attention to that little part.
Very true, he was gonna do it anyway with or without the gun. I think that goes for the Rob Zombie movie as well. He gives no indication that he was "inspired" by the movie, the movie just caused him to reflect on how he was gonna feel after he inevitably killed somoene. But I reject this notion that the movie made him do it. He even throws the movie in the trash so that nobody would think it influenced him, and yet here we are.
|Gmork - 2013-01-29 |
LETS NIP THIS PROBLEM IN THE BUTT AND BAN ALL SEVENTEEN YEAR OLDS
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