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Desc:I wish I'd had this advice in high school.
Category:News & Politics, Educational
Tags:bill maher, jobs, Mike Rowe, economic crisis, education crisis
Submitted:Rodents of Unusual Size
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Comment count is 36
Rodents of Unusual Size - 2013-08-25
I would also add that training for jobs is almost non existent in our society whereas in the 40s and 50s and 60s you had on the job training for a majority of these companies.
cognitivedissonance - 2013-08-25
It's a sideways bluff, actually. They say the jobs exist, but then say nobody is qualified to take them. Then they say the problem is with the schools, and so the plan is to not merely blame the schools, but replace them with paid equivalents of the very on-the-job apprenticeships they used to pay the worker for, not the other way around. And, should we buy this hustle, the problem will be the private schools, the problem will be the minimum wage. So then the plan is to tell the workers to voluntarily storm the legislature to demand less money for jobs that only exist theoretically, when the truth is that the jobs are unfilled because it's easier to sit on a pile of money, throw it into lobbying and get a bunch of tax breaks and sweetheart contracts.

Eventually, there will be no production of anything at all at this rate. Just vast piles of unspent money we've just agreed is valuable. But hey, it's not like anybody is going to Hell or anything, they've written that out of the paradigm. There's nothing to fear but The Vault Of Eternal Destitution here on Ferenginar.

Old_Zircon - 2013-08-25
Exactly. These companies no longer train in house (part of the whole, horrible "externalizing risks" trend that is a big part of why things are so fucked up in the first place - maybe the biggest part).

Old_Zircon - 2013-08-25
Also employers don't want to invest any more than they have to in the future of their employees because people don't tend to stay at the same job for more than a few years anymore. A big part of the reason they don't is because employers no longer invest in their employees' futures. So it's really just one big shit fest.

Old_Zircon - 2013-08-25
Plus, job training shouldn't be the primary goal of the educational system, and expecting it to be has played a big role in how fucked up our educational system has gotten.

Old_Zircon - 2013-08-25
Plus the fact is there are far more people than there are VALUABLE, SOCIALLY BENEFICIAL jobs to be done no matter how you cut it but between the old Puritan neurosis our society was founded on (from birth you are predestined for heaven or hell, but you will never know which so work as hard as possible and never slip up in any way, because any slip means you're doomed) and modern, winner take all Capitalism, we are completely unable to accept the fact that NOT EVERYONE NEEDS TO WORK ALL THE TIME. Getting past the idea that the job someone does determines or reflects their value as a person would go a long way toward stopping Western (and especially American) society's compulsion to smash its face against a wall over and over and keep blaming the wall.

kingarthur - 2013-08-25
This. All of this.

Old_Zircon - 2013-08-25
"We have been criminalized by our own tax code -- ninety-seven percent of the population has to chisel and scam to survive. This is not 'robust.' Are we too stupid to create a real national defense? Thanks to our schools and political leadership, the U.S. has acquired an international reputation as the home of 250 million people dumb enough to buy 'The Wacky Wall-Walker.' Let's face it: Without us, everybody else who wants to sell stuff would be in Big Trouble."


Oscar Wildcat - 2013-08-25
Here's a totally crazy idea not considered by either of these two gentleman. Perhaps the skills required for those Caterpillar jobs are worth more than 40 grand a year? So perhaps if you offered the applicants something near what the skills are worth, you'd get the jobs filled?

Hey Mike, you're apparently working for Cat, why don't you bring the subject up the next time you're negotiating _your_ salary with them. Or go eat a horse cock. Your choice.

baleen - 2013-08-25
What cogdis said.

You have to wonder why China and other parts of SE Asia are pouring so much money into the construction of *GASP* Liberal Arts colleges...

candyheadrobot - 2013-08-29
Stars of approval for the above, and a motion for no more tv watching so that these pundits can understand employment in America a little better.

Waugh - 2013-08-25
the skills gap is a pernicious myth. no shit you're not an advocate, rowe
shut up
jangbones - 2013-08-25
drunk again?

hughmanatee - 2013-08-26
shut up shut up shut up shut up

CJH - 2013-08-25
dude's been an actor his entire life, sitting in the makeup chair is probably the hardest work he does on a regular basis. touring shitting jobs does not give him blue collar cred, neither does wearing a baseball cap and a cheap t-shirt like some larry the cable guy lite.
Oscar Wildcat - 2013-08-25
Yep. Here's Mikes formative working class experiences that made him the rich man he is today.

Rowe attended Kenwood Presbyterian Church in Baltimore when he was younger; his parents still regularly attend. Rowe attended Overlea High School, where he excelled in both theater and singing under the tutelage of choir director Freddie King, whom Rowe credits for first interesting him in performing.[5] After graduation from high school, he attended Essex Community College,[5] and briefly sang with the Chorus of the Chesapeake, which at the time was directed by King. He later graduated from Towson University[6] with a degree in Communication Studies.[7]
Rowe sang professionally with the Baltimore Opera.[8][9] He says about this job:
I joined the opera to get my union card and meet girls. I was a saloon singer, so I went down to the Baltimore Opera and learned an aria and auditioned. I figured I'd do one show and quit. But the girls were everywhere and the truth is, the music was really decent.[10]

Old_Zircon - 2013-08-25
Unless you're some kind of big-ticket, A list celebrity who just gets paid to show up, professional acting can be grueling, brutal work.

Old_Zircon - 2013-08-25
Which is not to say that this guy isn't being a douche for trying to pass as some kind of working class hero, just saying acting can be rough.

Caminante Nocturno - 2013-08-25
I remember the day I met this guy. He asked me what he could do to help make the world a better place. I put my hand on his shoulder, looked him in the eyes, and said "Rowe, Rowe, fight the power."
Aubrey McFate - 2013-08-27
Believe in the Mike Rowe that believes in you, Cami.

memedumpster - 2013-08-25
Look at those two job creators, solving the country's problems.

What fucking garbage.
SteamPoweredKleenex - 2013-08-25
Better they earn money for doing something you can point to and name (in this case "acting" or "talking and stuff"). It's the fuckholes "earning" money by playing video poker with the economy, removing value from the economy at the expense of the taxpayer, not producing anything even remotely of worth, and having the poor and shrinking middle classes bail them out when they fuck it up.

Oh, and of course, blaming the poor and shrinking middle class for their mistakes. Can't forget that.

Rodents of Unusual Size - 2013-08-25
No, see, if I had had this advice in high school I would have known that I could apply for one of the many occupational degrees that community college offered and could be like my friends who went into skilled trades and were totally unaffected by the economic crisis.

Because, see, this has nothing to do with the fact that companies are greedy and purposefully blaming the work force for not hiring them.

I mean, hello.

Rodents of Unusual Size - 2013-08-25
Also, a lot of companies are becoming ridiculously picky. Twenty years ago it was laughable to ask for 5+ years of experience for a job that paid an hour and yet that is happening now. It's ridiculous.

Binro the Heretic - 2013-08-25
They're also asking for college degrees. Often, degrees don't reflect the skills needed for the job and aren't really necessary to do the job, they just show that the applicant is "willing to work hard."

SteamPoweredKleenex - 2013-08-25
Forget degrees, the sham of "experience" is most prominent in the IT fields, as many can point to job openings where employers will demand years of experience in a programming language or application that exceeds the number of years that said language/app has been in existence.

baleen - 2013-08-26
One of the biggest complaints I've heard from recruiters is that their educated applicants don't know how to compose a sentence. I agree with Rowe that there's something wrong with status-driven career insanity, which is really what he's talking about here, but there's no reason to damn college education in general just because the economy tanks.

sosage - 2013-08-26
In my experience, those ridiculous "X-years XP" and "XYZ level of education" prerequisites that HR slaps onto their job application procedures are there as excuses to easily cull the stacks of applications they receive (or to scare off applicants). I've landed interviews for jobs where I did not meet their outrageous standard in those two categories, but applied anyways and got into the door for excelling in other categories. When I didn't get the job (which is very, very often now days), it usually was not because I had only 2 years of XP instead of 5. Someone else out of the hundreds of applicants happened to be better.

chumbucket - 2013-08-25
I literally started working for the company I'm with in the basement of the manufacturing floor...night shift. 17 years later I have my own office and they've given me stock options. The reason was I didn't quite have the right degree for the job I have now but the hard work got me places. Oh and I'm still paying college loans for the degree I couldn't use.
Binro the Heretic - 2013-08-25
In America, we do tend to look down on people who do manual labor. The thing is, it's not only reflected in the average person's attitude towards those types of jobs, but in the way employers pay and treat the people in those positions.

Of course kids don't want those jobs.
Oscar Wildcat - 2013-08-25
I have a theory too, Mike. It's based on living through the Reagan era when the working class in the country was slaughtered. Strung up, bleed dry, and carved up for the glue factory. So uhh, yeah, it make take 10 or 20 more generations before the collective experience of that is forgotten. At the very least, you've got to stop the slaughter before the forgetting can begin. And I still see buckets of blood on the floor every time the C suite crowd gets indigestion.
Old_Zircon - 2013-08-25

Nominal - 2013-08-25
If I knew now what I knew when I got out of high school in 1998, I honestly would have said screw college and gone into the workplace during the boom. Every single person I know under 40 who's doing great today did so because they got in during the late 90s boom, built up enough skills, experience, and contacts to whether the tough times.

I don't think there's ever going to be another late 90s boom :(
SteamPoweredKleenex - 2013-08-25
There can't be, at least, not in a similar fashion. The rich's taxes were higher, they didn't get as many deductions for shipping jobs overseas, and we've already invaded Iraq.

sosage - 2013-08-26
I was one of those people who got into tech during the boom instead of going to college (graduated high school in 96). I met a lot of great people, big names and worked side-by-side with guys my age who became very, very well off when everyone starved. Those guys that became successful and could still weather the tech bubble bursting without previous XP/schooling were NOT the norm. When everything in tech went to shit, having those traditionally valuable tools in your belt like a college degree and actual training helped those that would have otherwise been shaken out with everybody else.

I then decided to go for an art degree in the mid 2K's (Sorry..."Cave Drawer" degree). Big life mistake #2.

Now my unemployable, debt ridden persona haunts POETV comment sections...BOO!

Hooker - 2013-08-26
Caterpillar spokesman complains that Caterpillar can't find workers with University-preferred status and five to ten years previous Caterpillar employee experience.
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