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Desc:Canadian news program about the 2012 teen suicide
Category:Crime, News & Politics
Tags:, CBC, Fifth estate, amanda todd, sex predator
Submitted:John Holmes Motherfucker
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Comment count is 38
John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-21
To anyone not familiar with this case, the most shocking and depressing aspect for me is the endless posthumous slut-shaming that still rains down on Amanda Todd on YouTube, and not just in the comments. A whole lot of videos have been uploaded that seek to "expose the truth" about Amanda Todd, and how she was "not so innocent".

It's as if the taboo against sex with children, which was supposed to protect children, is now being used against children. You not only see kids on the internet behaving like this. You also see prosecutors charging kids with felonies for sexting.
BorrowedSolution - 2014-07-21
I haven't heard of a lot of cases of minors being charged for sexting in Canada (yet), although our marginally lower age of consent laws (16 years old if there's no butt stuff) might have something to do with that.

EvilHomer - 2014-07-21
How common are sexting charges? There was that one case posted here a little while back; have there been more?

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-21
I know of at least a couple more.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-22
>>The fact is, they are getting tougher about the legality of what shit goes down on the Internet because cases like this require more and more attention be paid to the trend surrounding it. But people here, I'm assuming, are mostly adults and not in high school and there is a world of difference.

When Boxxy was gang-stalked (one of the few documented cases) , kids were performing criminal acts and uploading them to 4chan. It was incredibly stupid.

But I want to repeat, the suspect charged with extorting Amanda Todd (and others) is 35 years old.

SolRo - 2014-07-21
And then there are guys like EvilHomer who are outraged that their right to harass kids on the internet might be curtailed because of this.
EvilHomer - 2014-07-21
Yes, there are some people like me who don't think kids should be sent to prison for shitposting. Do you?

EvilHomer - 2014-07-21
And it bears pointing that every single one of us is guilty of "cyberbullying" and "internet harassment", most of us having done so at least once within the last day. I really don't know what your angle is here, Mr Ro, whether you're trolling, or you honestly think that teenagers posting snarkyass memes on a Facebook memorial demands a "national strategy for eliminating cyber-bullying", but if you are serious, then I'll kindly ask that you remember this the next time you harass someone on the internet for enjoying My Little Pony.

BorrowedSolution - 2014-07-21
Aww, c'mon guys, don't let's fight.

Homer's really only a bully if you're willing to parse 50+ lines of pony nonsense and then get offended by the time that he's fooled you into wasting.

SolRo: You're kind of a dick. Enjoyable, informative, sometimes even insightful. But you're still kind of a dick so let's not throw stones in glass houses now.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I agree with Homer: without 'cyber-bullying', poetv wouldn't even exist. Dick.

SolRo - 2014-07-21
You really cant tell the difference between talking trash on an anonymous forum, and people continually harassing a person through services that show their real identity (and using that persons real life connections to further the harassment)?

Lets do a test...Are these the same?

-Me calling you a faggot here.

-Me finding pictures of you having sex with a man, and posting those on your facebook, emailing them to your family, your school, your workplace, etc

BorrowedSolution - 2014-07-21
Well second scenario is just flat-out criminal harassment, never mind the venue. Maybe what Homer's saying is that there's a very clear line between those two scenarios, and strengthening legislation to curtail what is essentially criminal harassment when we already have serviceable laws to deal with those situations would be overkill. Maybe he shares your views entirely and is just fucking with you.

I don't see any reason to believe that Homer has ever actually engaged in criminal harassment, though. He seems like a pretty nice guy, even if he is clearly a bit.. disturbed.

You're definitely still a dick, though.

EvilHomer - 2014-07-21
...except that sort of behavior is exceedingly rare, and it's not what the anti-bullying crusaders went after. The sex pictures got Miss Todd's stalker in trouble because they were CP, not because he was a bully. Meanwhile, kids who posted off color messages to Miss Todd's memorial page, lost their jobs, and in at least one case got partyvanned by the New Zealand FBI. Celebrities didn't host benefit concerts to raise awareness about one stalker, polictians like Dany Morin didn't get up on a soapbox to attack sexual blackmail (which is already illegal). The moral outrage was directed against the garden-variety trolling that occured *after* her suicide; it was directed against the legions of Anons and Redditors who got a kick out of disrespecting the dead. It was against *bullying*. Things exactly like you calling someone a faggot.

Cena_mark - 2014-07-21
Where you getting this nonsense that EvilHomer is a cyber bully or supports it? I agree there's a big difference between anonymous forums and social media, but when did homer say he supports cyber bullying?

EvilHomer - 2014-07-21
BS - precisely. I don't condone CP, nor do I condone criminal harassment. My problem is that the anti-cyberbullying movement is going after far broader targets than the lone teenager who pushed Miss Todd over the edge; cyberbullying is, as I stated in the Weird Al video, our society's latest moral panic. Maybe SolRo really does agree with me? He's just using "harassment" in a far narrower sense than either I or the scaremongers?

I also don't really think I engage in much of any harassment, illegal or otherwise. I don't generally like being a dick to people. I do like wasting people's time, and I do sometimes enjoy laughing behind people's backs, but I tend to be very nice and respectful, almost to the point of fault. People have told me it can be quite frustrating sometimes. So, no, I'm not really worried about *my* right to be a dick getting curtailed - it's a right I usually choose to waive. But I am worried about SolRo's right to be a dick getting curtailed, because it is part of who he is, something he is good at and something he enjoys!

SolRo - 2014-07-21
"Where you getting this nonsense that EvilHomer is a cyber bully or supports it?"

the post directly before yours. He's complaining that people shitting on the dead girl lost their jobs.

BorrowedSolution - 2014-07-21
I enjoy being a dick, myself. I wasn't trying to imply that being a dick is a bad thing, just so we're all clear about that. It's actually a lot of fun.

SolRo - 2014-07-21
Don't worry, I took it as a compliment.

BorrowedSolution - 2014-07-21
It's a big jump from "Doesn't support people being fired and/or vanned for being disrespectful" to "actively supports cyber-bullying".

Can you tell the difference between those two things?

EvilHomer - 2014-07-21
Cnea - it's a reference to an earlier discussion we were having about Amanda Todd. SolRo either misunderstands or misrepresents my position; I am not pro-bullying, I'm simply anti-antibullying, at least when antibullying goes beyond personal responsibility and mutates into things like internet censorship and police intervention.

My thoughts on cyberbullying are probably closest to those of the parents of Michael Morone, the poor brony who tried killing himself due to bullying. This quote from his mom sums up my views quite nicely:

"I've heard a lot of people say you need to go after bullies and hold them responsible. But you know, I don't think that's what Mike would want. I would rather teach people how to do right than turn around than punish, because punishment doesn't always work."

Cena_mark - 2014-07-21
The WWE stands against bullying and so do I. Don't be a bully, B A Star!

SolRo - 2014-07-21
I'm getting the vibe from EvilH that he's for letting bullying happen, no matter the case, because...well, he doesn't give a specific reason, I guess freedom or something?

Which makes the assumption that the victims aren't entitled to have any of their rights and freedoms protected.

Cena_mark - 2014-07-21
I think Homer's just saying that the anti-bullying laws may be overreaching. Funny how a suicide like this will bring about media attention and legislation, yet mass shootings and stand your ground injustices get no legislation.

BorrowedSolution - 2014-07-21
Meh. One of you cares more about protection of speech rights, the other about protection of victims rights (or more appropriately to this topic: victims families rights).

Doesn't make either one of you a monster, but essentially creating a strawman for Homer because he's really fucking annoying sometimes isn't lending you any moral authority here. It's all fine and well to be a dick, but don't be such a little pussy.

Cena_mark - 2014-07-21
I think Solro will need to some bottled oxygen and a team of Sherpa guides to climb this molehill.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-22
Lucky for you folks, I have the internet. I went to this awesome new site called Google.com, and it directed me to a crazy place called wikipedia. Here's a passage:

Starting in September 2011, the State of New Jersey will enforce the toughest bullying law in the country. Each school will have to report each case of bullying to the State, and the State will grade each school based on bullying standards, policies, and incidents. Each school must have an effective plan to deal with bullying. All school administrators and teachers are required to deal with any incidents of bullying reported to them or witnessed by them. Teachers must report any bullying incidents they witness to the administrators. Bullies risk suspensions to expulsions if convicted of any type of bullying; from minor teasing for severe cases.

So the TOUGHEST BULLYING LAW in the country provides penalties of suspension and expulsion, according to wikipedia. Until someone comes up with a better source, that means that while neither one of these guys is monsters, one of them is better informed.

People being imprisoned for shitposting? Not actually happening, at least due to antibullying legislation. Kids tormented and driven to self-destructive behavior, including suicide? Actually happening.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-22
>>My problem is that the anti-cyberbullying movement is going after far broader targets than the lone teenager who pushed Miss Todd over the edge;

The suspect who was just arrested in the Netherlands is 35, is part of a network, and has been linked to victims on several continents.

In my opinion, Homer is neither a cyberbully, nor, in this case, a person with a clue. According to my research, cyberbullying legislation in the US, mostly provides things like funding for education and prevention, and monitors and regulates programs in schools. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

Rodents of Unusual Size - 2014-07-22
The fact that you don't understand the difference between the idiots that drove someone to their death and our occasional jabs at each other is really sad.

Five stars of pure disgust.

Rodents of Unusual Size - 2014-07-22
I mean even the worst things that people have said here don't come close, not even by a long shot, to what these idiots did, which was, and I cannot stress this enough, PRE MEDITATED. All of them. It was premeditated. They were PROUD of pushing her into death.

The fact is, they are getting tougher about the legality of what shit goes down on the Internet because cases like this require more and more attention be paid to the trend surrounding it. But people here, I'm assuming, are mostly adults and not in high school and there is a world of difference.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-22
Homer's one of my favorite people in here, but I think he's way overracting. There are people who genuinely alarmed at the idea of the internet losing its delightful wild west character, and they feel threatened by any discussion of how to make it a more civilized place. It's a kind of Amoral panic. People get indignant when Anita Sarkeesian disables her comments, and last week I made a general statement in favor of editing and people just naturally assumed I wanted to ban everything anybody ever posts.

I do think that "sextortion", while annoyingly overclever, is a better word for what happened to Amanda Todd than "bullying". Hopefully in the future, we'll have a better vocabulary for this kind of crime.

SolRo - 2014-07-22
The huge difference in what goes on here is that no matter how bad it could hypothetically get, anyone can just say 'fuck it' and disappear into the internet unfettered.

Most of the cases that are making it necessary for specific laws involve a person or groups of people following a victim from site to site to harass them without end. These are people determined to ruin someone's life for whatever fucked up reason. It's orders of magnitude beyond shit talking.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-22
Homer's one of my favorite people in here, but I think he's way overracting.


Okay, sorry, I think I meant to say that he's OVERREACTING!

BorrowedSolution - 2014-07-22
JHMF: Prosecutors can (and will) go out of their way to find a way to charge you with SOMETHING if they think it's politically expedient. The charges don't necessarily have anything to do with the perceived crime. Especially in your country's shitty judicial system.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-22
There needs no ghost from the grave to tell us this.

My point is that some people are such mouth breathing knuckle dragging fucktards that for them, the observance of a social taboo transcends all reason and morality. Legally, there's no such thing as consensual sex between an adult and a 14 year old, because a 14 year old cannot assume responsibility. It's meant to protect the child, but when mouth breathing knuckle dragging fucktards are involved (and when are they not?), the morality behind the taboo is lost, and the child becomes EXTRA responsible. No one would bother condemning a 23 year old for showing her tits, especially after she'd been dead for a year and a half, but when a 14 year old is cajoled and manipulated into showing her tits, it's so shocking and terrible that the very person whom the taboo is supposed to protect is destroyed by condemnation.

Why do prosecutors and judges turn children into lifetime register sex offenders? Because they're mouth breathing knuckle dragging fucktards. I can't stress this point strongly enough.

BorrowedSolution - 2014-07-21
*the second scenario.

John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-22
What I hate about poe-tv: Not everyone is going to have a chance to watch the 40 minute video before it slides off the bottom of the page forever. Afterward, it can't be recalled, and we can only contact each other through the comments on other videos.
Old People - 2014-07-22
Love that monster Canadian word at the end of the title. She was sextorted and died of cyberharcelementing.
John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-22
I do know of a case of a kid who was put in jail for shitposting, but it wasn't bullying, it was "terroristic threats". Kid made a "joke" about shooting up a school not long after Sandy Hook, but while it certainly wasn't funny, it was followed by "LOL JK", so it was hardly intended as a real threat, and they're actually trying to put this kid away for nine years. Last time I checked he had been in jail for a year awaiting trial, and had allegedly been sexually assaulted in jail. Homer, maybe can we can get together on this one? I think that whoever decided to prosecute this kid ought to find himself living under a bridge. Do you agree?

I thought I joined a facebook group in support of this kid, but now i can't find it. I'll see if I locate this case.
John Holmes Motherfucker - 2014-07-22
The kid's name is Justin Carter, and I submitted a video about him, Here's the Kafkaesque nightmare Homer was talking about. Check it out.
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