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Desc:The situation is dire.
Category:Military, Horror
Tags:Israel, Palestine, hipsters, syria
Submitted:baleen
Date:07/30/14
Views:1099
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Comment count is 36
baleen
'Mummy, why did everyone forget about Syria when Gaza started?'
Answer complicated by limits of media resources and audience empathy, and similarities and differences between two wars

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/25/forget-syria-gaza -media-audience-wars

"IF ONLY ISRAEL NEVER HAPPENED." - Poetv
Dinanukht
Using one atrocity in an attempt to silence critics of another atrocity is about the most cynical rhetorical move one can make.

But, hey, at least you're having a good time being a jerk on the internet.

Void 71
Careful, he's this close to submitting a video clip from MEMRITV. And by this, I mean REALLY fucking close.

SolRo
Guys, baleen has been making shit-heel excuses for Israeli war crimes before any of us even heard of Palestine, so...he's right?

baleen
You're making friends SolRo. Build that team!

baleen
The Guardian is a socialist magazine you guys.

baleen
"
Using one atrocity in an attempt to silence critics of another atrocity is about the most cynical rhetorical move one can make."

I have no intention of SILENCING you, you dumb knob.
I just think there's a lot of turmoil fashionistas on here. SolRo, being an endless font of hilarity when it comes to this issue, has made some pseudo-intellectual allies without even having to try. That's how stupid this is.

I think absolutely nothing intelligent will come of posting Israel-Palestine war porn on here, other than a kind of "Look at me! Look at how I I'm on the right side of things in my general cliched left-of-center bland tribal unit."

I think overall the shit I've read from most posters here on Israel and Palestine have been simplistic, uninformed, and derived from mainly one source, which tends to be watered down Finkelstein and friends. You are as bland and as stupid as Fox News assholes screaming about Israel being our best allies and Muslims wanting to kill everyone.

What's there not to poke at? Again, your concern on this issue is entirely based on a kneejerk reaction to conservative and mainstream media. You don't really care, and I will continue making fun of it.

Dinanukht
The entire premise of this post is that people are learning about Gaza at the expense of learning about Syria. Anecdotally, this doesn't seem to me to be the case. It seems more often that people who talk and care about one Middle Eastern conflict end up talking about and caring about the other, and that the vast majority of people couldn't care less about either.

The logic you hope to establish is that "caring more about Gaza, means caring less about Syria." But it's false, and it's a diversionary tactic. Someone talks about human rights abuses in the West Bank, and the response becomes "yeah, well, what about the Kurds!" Someone talks about the death of Gazan civilians and the response is "Syria is looking pretty bad right now." Someone talks about Israel's violation of international law, and the response becomes "hey! look over here at Russia!" It's the rhetorical equivalent of shouting, during a fist fight, "hey, what's that behind you!" and then running away.

The Great Hippo
You're not poking fun at them; you're joining them. You've become part of the joke.

You're right; probably nothing intelligent will come out of posting these videos. The point you seem to miss is that you're posting these videos here, too; rather than providing a voice of reason as a counterpoint to the anti-Israel hysteria, you've joined the hysteria. You're adding to the static. Your willful participation in this nonsense does more to convince people here that Israel is the only bad guy than all of the anti-Israel videos posted here combined.

I understand that at some point, the shouting gets so loud, the stupidity so severe, that the only thing you feel like you can do is shout louder, stupider things than everyone else. That doesn't make you right, though; it certainly doesn't help. Trust me; I know. It just makes you another screaming lunatic that drowns out the softer voices that call for reason, compassion, and love.

I'm not a turmoil fashionita, or an anti-Israelite, or someone trying to assert their superiority over you on the internet: I'm just a dude watching from the sidelines. If you get *nothing* else from this post, I hope you get this:

In any given discussion, the gentlest voice is both the hardest to hear *and*, more often than not, the most important one to listen for.

baleen
Thanks Hippo, those are very thoughtful words.

SolRo
what a shit-heel.
baleen
Hipster.

wtf japan
Is it ok to be so tired of this shit that I really don't care what happens to any of the parties involved? I know some of you don't have that luxury, but I personally don't have any family or property over there.

Also, am I ignorant for considering Israeli policy to be simply an extension of Middle Eastern psychology in general and the Israel-Palestine conflict as not being fundamentally different from any of the other Middle Eastern conflicts? Should I cherry-pick this conflict as something to be particularly indignant about? Why/why not?
StanleyPain
I would say, yes, it is OK. Both sides are fucked. Hamas can pack the TV with all the dead children they want, it doesn't change the fact that before the 1980s and the Lebanon invasion the TV was packed with the same footage...only dead Israeli kids. As I said in a previous post, there is no solution to any of this except to have a third party come in and basically babysit both of them since neither side is capable of overcoming their fanatical devotion to death culture.

Israel and Palestine are the ultimate, living textbook example of everything wrong with religion and how it is the obstacle to all sane reason. Period.

baleen
1. Israel was founded on atrocity and sin, making the Zionist experiment a crime and its government illegitimate. The Holocaust is not a reason for the creation of Israel because Albert Einstein said something on Facebook about this.

2. We fund Israeli atrocities with billions yearly, which makes it entirely our business. It doesn't matter that we fund many other nations, causing far more damage to both Palestinians and the poor in general, this is the big one because Jews are up 10-0 and all they do is whine and make movies about Auschwitz so that they can give themselves Oscars anyway.

3. It is entirely appropriate to consider every Israeli a brainwashed Zionist militant just like the Nazis. Apartheid of Palestinians from Israeli culture is as bad as it was in South Africa.

4. It's more important to take sides on this issue than research how people are trying to solve it, because if you do that you start to actually understand why all this is happening, you have to listen to all sides of the story, humanize the people, and that's never any fun. You can't make friends at parties that way.

wtf japan
Please note that I am not implying that every Israeli partakes in the aforementioned Middle Eastern psychology. I am referring exclusively to certain aspects of Israeli policy which I see as an extension of this, regardless of whether or not it has popular support.

Do I have to research the issue if I don't care enough to take sides, baleen, or can I just quietly steal booze from the party and go somewhere else while people are arguing about stuff they don't understand and have no stake in?

oddeye
"Can you guys just fucking pack it in already? So fucking sick of this bullshit!" is also how I feel about it too. I'm not expecting best buddies overnight here but fucking hell, children are dying on both sides guys.

End this fucking madness ASAP, the pair of you.

SolRo
The big distinction about the majority of recent middle eastern conflicts is that they've basically been civil wars contained in the country of origin. When one country attacks another, and if oil is involved, the USA likes to step in and stop it.

Israel is attacking/policing/conquering/settling a different country.

The USA backs up Israel not only with huge subsidies and weapons shipments, but also with its veto power in the UN.

So you have a highly advanced, well funded, wealthy country, subjugating one of the poorest. With the USA preventing the outside world from stopping it forcing a peaceful solution.




But the most important thing to remember is;

"I've never made excuses for Israel, and I don't support Israel." - baleen

Cherry Pop Culture
I asked some friends the other day if I am becoming an adult. I am giving out less and less fucks everyday and focusing more on me. I really feel for these kids, but the adults in this are being violent fuckheads and what can I do right this second for anyone in this?

I told myself my big issue of 2014 is playing Bayonetta 2.

Spaceman Africa
"Israel and Palestine are the ultimate, living textbook example of everything wrong with religion and how it is the obstacle to all sane reason. Period" holy shit StanleyPain how dumb and simplistic can ypu be?

wtf japan
"The USA backs up Israel not only with huge subsidies and weapons shipments, but also with its veto power in the UN.

So you have a highly advanced, well funded, wealthy country, subjugating one of the poorest. With the USA preventing the outside world from stopping it forcing a peaceful solution."

Sorry, SolRo. Doesn't exactly sound unique to me.
SolRo
Didn't say it was, but it's the most blatant example.

Lot of shit the US is responsible for is done under the table, 'wink-and-deny' kinda things.

This is just out in the open, "here are some weapons, a couple billion dollars, do whatever you want and our politicians will suck your dick if anyone makes you feel bad"

wtf japan
No, actually we do plenty of nasty stuff out in the open. People just don't seem to care about the other things as much as this one for some reason.

baleen
Those "some reasons" are why I'm trolling.


TeenerTot
I am kinda drunk so I''l say I'm just about as well-informed (ha) as the average American, and while I WANT to imrove myself by caring one way or the other, at this point I want to say fuck it cause it all makes me physically sick (or maybe it's the alcohol. So basically it comes down to "yes, that's awful, but look at POOR ME trying to deal with it from my american suburb." Urp. Burgh.
craptacular
Starving in Syria: Palestinian refugees die in rebel-held camp...
while I drink a beer and eat from a family size bag of Miss Vickie's Sweet Chili & Sour Cream
Scrimmjob
Can we nuke the middle east from orbit yet?
memedumpster
To be fair "blowjobs for all in Syria" would also sound terrible. Insert blank "in Syria" is universally something to be avoided.
Bort
So, anyone got any good solutions, or even possible solutions?

The only thing I see working is if someone with tons of money to waste on an idealistic cause starts building factories that can employ both Israeli and Palestinian workers, and foster a sense that ongoing hostility is far less appealing than a good stable job. Which is why I can't be mad at Scarlett Johansson over that Sodastream flap -- Sodastream is actually providing good jobs to people who need them, and is setting an example others might follow.

Beyond that, I'm stuck. As far as I can tell, Israel is just trying to protect itself, except that the way it protects itself can very generously be labeled oppressive. And the Palestinians are just trying to make a future for themselves, except that the way some of them do it is by killing as many Israelis as opportunity permits. Even if 90% of the people on both sides would like to coexist peacefully, that last 10% is enough to shoo peace away for a good long time.
SolRo
The best first step would be if the USA would fuck off.

For one, the US military aid is a good incentive for the Israeli military, hardliners and profiteers (often the same people) to keep tensions high in the region.

The other problem is that the US actively blocks any UN attempts to bring peace that Israel doesn't approve of (see first problem).

If the UN were allowed to sanction Israel for war crimes, to force it to respect Palestinian borders, and to replace the IDF with actual peacekeeping forces, I think significant progress could be made, even if slowly at first.

SolRo
the IDF that operate in Palestine I mean, not replace Israels army.

baleen
"The other problem is that the US actively blocks any UN attempts to bring peace that Israel doesn't approve of (see first problem)." Currently Obama is forcing a ceasefire that is pissing off even the doviest of Israelis. That should make you happy.

Are you suggesting that Hamas is a legitimate negotiator for the Palestinian people?

"For one, the US military aid is a good incentive for the Israeli military, hardliners and profiteers (often the same people) to keep tensions high in the region." That's true and is one of the side-effects of the old military industrial complex. What do you think would happen if we cut all aid to Turkey, Egypt and Israel? The USA is the largest contributor to UNRWA, by the way.

"If the UN were allowed to sanction Israel for war crimes" I'm sure that would be a piece of cake.

SolRo
"Currently Obama is forcing a ceasefire"

Where? On what planet or alternate reality is that happening?

--

"Are you suggesting that Hamas is a legitimate negotiator for the Palestinian people?"

It doesn't matter, Israel doesn't negotiate in a real way with any party representing Palestinians.

--

"What do you think would happen if we cut all aid to Turkey, Egypt and Israel?"

What would happen? What fever dreamed nightmare do you think would happen?

--

"The USA is the largest contributor to UNRWA, by the way. "

That's nice, I guess? Supply the weapons that cause suffering, and then some rations to make it all better.

Or is helping people directly tied to exploding them first?

Maru
Look at this: "I think absolutely nothing intelligent will come of posting Israel-Palestine war porn on here, other than a kind of "Look at me! Look at how I I'm on the right side of things in my general cliched left-of-center bland tribal unit."" baleen is literally impervious to irony. I've never seen blinders like this. They must be awesome name-brand 0 blinders.
EvilHomer
Here is my wallpaper:

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/168/9/2/jesus_is_not_he re_today_by_kingofallnoobs-d69hnpa.png

SO CUTE!!! ngagaggagaglaga

What is your wallpaper?
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