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Desc:come for the baffled, uncomfortable actors, come away with a definitive answer by Adam Savage
Category:Arts, Educational
Tags:Star Wars, nerds, star trek, Adam Savage, actors are dumb
Submitted:jangbones
Date:07/16/15
Views:1366
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Comment count is 80
Anaxagoras
Huh. The video description doesn't lie: Adam Savage's answer really is definitive.
Syd Midnight
This sort of thing is What He Does.

Bort
I have opinions on this, but can I just say that Judy Greer is welcome to talk to me about Star Trek all day if she wants.

Potrod
Judy Greer is welcome to read a stock ticker to me.

TeenerTot
My first thought was "well, the Enterprise has those photon torpedoes..."

My god I'm a nerd.
fedex
My god you're Adam Savage

garcet71283
My first thought was along a similar line based on that episode of voyager where they state that one tri cobalt torpedo could destroy the entire east coast of a continent...

SolRo
My first thought was "Hey, isn't the Enterprize several city blocks in length, while the millennium falcon would be dwarfed by a Saudi prince's dinghy, that he uses to get to his actual mega yacht"

Bort
The thought I had was that transporters are the decisive technology, except as fast as the Millennium Falcon is, it might be difficult to get a lock, so the transporters wouldn't be an advantage. They might even turn into a disadvantage. The Millennium Falcon might conceivably win if the Enterprise took down its shields to use the transporters, and the Millennium Falcon took advantage of the situation ... but for that to be possible, they'd need a psychic pilot.

EvilHomer
Ohmygod you dorks, the size of the ship doesn't matter! It's a question of power output and the strength of their weaponry and shields. The Enterprise can be crippled by a couple of 64 megaton photon-torpedoes. The Millennium Falcon is designed to resist *turbolaser fire* with a power output of no less than 22,000 megatons!

You know what the Millennium Falcon being smaller means? It means nothing, because it's impossible for the Enterprise to penetrate Chewie and Han's shields.

EvilHomer
Actually, no, it does mean something. It means that Starfleet Command would have to write 1,014 letters home, explaining why the Captain of the USS Enterprise thought he could go toe-to-toe with the baddest smuggler this side of Nal Hutta.

garcet71283
I dunno, speed probably doesn't matter when your weapons travel at or faster than light speed. The phasers on the enterprise are basically point and click and their targeting is almost completely computer controlled. The fire arcs are basically everywhere due to the saucer section.

Whereas the millennium falcon needs turret gunners and the Star Wars "lasers" are more akin to plasma weaponry, so definitely slower than light.

But then again, if you are following show logic, the enterprise designers also stored ammunition right underneath each officers station because reasons.

memedumpster
I thought they were the same ship.
crasspm
Nice. I worked with a guy with Star Wars tattoos all over his body and it was great fun feigning ignorance with him and conflating Star Wars and Star Trek.

Bort
That works really well with Star Wars fans. I know a guy whose coworkers were all big SW nerds who would meet in costume on weekends, and the aforementioned guy once asked if he could join in, because he already has the plastic pointy ears and he knows the salute. He was met with a red face and, so the story goes, a throbbing vein on the forehead.

Star Trek fans are used to being made fun of, though.

memedumpster
Being a rabid Ep I-III fan is also a good way to endear yourself to Star Warriors.

fedex
Wait wait are we talking about the Enterprise C or the Enterprise D?
Or the FisherPrice Z?
memedumpster
U.S.S. THATGUY : NCC-1★
EvilHomer
OH MY FUCKING GOD, NO. ADAM SAVAGE, YOU. ARE IN. THE DOG HOUSE.

How could someone so nerdy, still fail on a question so basic? This is common fucking knowledge, people. "Ooooh, they've got laser blasters. Enterprise has photon torpedoes. derpderpderp"

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/Beam2.html
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Torpedoes/Torpedo1.ht ml


Not to mention
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/Calc1.html
and
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Shields/index.html


Adam Savage, I am DISAPPOINTED in you, sir!!!
Bobonne
Stardestroyer.net's whole purpose is to bullshit ways Star Wars would beat Star Trek.

Even if half of what it claimed were true, it'd be like quoting the Protocals of the Elders of Zion for Middle Eastern policy discussions.

jangbones
pfft, Empire propaganda, that site is owned by Glenn Beck

memedumpster
Why are the theme songs to Star Wars and Star Trek almost identical? Couldn't Danny Elfman write something original for Star Wars?

EvilHomer
The website has been linked. The claims are there for anyone to examine. If you can dispute the factual accuracy of any relevant claims made therein, by all means, do so now.

Otherwise, the Falcon wins.

memedumpster
The Maltese Falcon did blow up the Death Sphere, so that is something. But the Innerprise blew up a Bjorg Triangle. So who is stronger, the Collection, or the Solar Empire?

EvilHomer
I mean, look. On the Star Wars side, we have a website that uses actual physics, shows its math, and takes great pains to examine the points and counterpoints raised by both parties in the debate.

On the Star Trek side, we have someone invoking Godwin's Law, and someone talking about Glenn Beck.


That pretty much sums up the culture war between Jedis and Trekkies.

memedumpster
The only reason War Stars is better is because of those viruses that give people magic powers. There is no magic power virus in Star Mech, they have to use logic and androids. So yes, when you have magic power viruses, your side is better.

Bobonne
"actual physics"

"star wars"

"star trek"

"prove me wrong"

That guy
...now do you see why I 1-star this shit?

memedumpster
No, in fact, I don't see why you fail to participate in it. This is awesome.

After arguing with SolRo about gay bashing, I can honestly say this debate is better by a million star (wars), simply because it doesn't matter and no one is taking it seriously. I would five star (trek) it again if I could.

EvilHomer
No, Meme, the Force doesn't even factor into the equation. You're right that, if we were to introduce Force powers into the battle, the slaughter would be even more lopsided than it already is. But the simple fact of the matter is, the Star Wars galaxy has technology many orders of magnitude beyond that of the Trek; it's a Type III civilization on the Kardashev Scale, as opposed to Trek, which is maybe a Type II, if we're being generous.

SolRo
In the end, the enterprize wins, because it's based on real(ish) physics, and all the star wars weapon theoretical outputs are based on how impossibly impossible they are (like a light sabre's radiant heat would cook anyone trying to hold it)

memedumpster
You can't separate the Force from the Million Falcons, the ship is blessed. It was the Ark of the Covenant that brought the last Jedi to the last Sith and brought a new space order. That's like saying the box killed all the Nazis at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark, because it was a better box than they had. I bet if the Melkosian Filanderer sat completely unshielded and the Enterpretor fired a photon tomato at it, the Force would make it miss, then, without using a battle computer, they would blow up the bigger ship in one shot, because the Force.

Magic spaceship.

EvilHomer
Now, see, if *I* were forced to argue on the wrong side - that is, in favour of Star Trek - I'd point out that the reason why Star Wars has such a massive edge in technology, is because the Star Wars writers weren't concerned about making their science believable! Star Wars is OP as shit, it's like a whole galaxy full of Mary Sues, and this is one of the reasons why Poindexters tend to gravitate towards Star Trek, and jocks, Star Wars. Star Trek is more realistic. It makes more sense.

Of course, that doesn't change the f̲a̲c̲t̲ (fact!!!) that the Falcon would roflstomp the Enterprise, but there's honestly no way for Trekkies to win that debate, and the only hope the Trekkies have is to try and change the terms of the discussion.

memedumpster
Although, Confederation ships can... TIME TRAVEL... no time travel in Star Smores.

EvilHomer
Meme - to the best of my knowledge, there has never been any evidence that midi-chlorians can live within the hulls and subsystems of starships.

You can say the ship is blessed, and maybe in some divine cosmic sense it is, but it's not blessed by the Force.

memedumpster
Yeah, YEAH!

The Enterprise would travel to the PAST and the either rewrite the timeline to win, like with the whale dildo, or reboot the whole universe to where the Magenta Fondler didn't even exist!

memedumpster
Surely the miniharrisonfordians are at least as tough as ebola. They can live on surfaces.

EvilHomer
-edit- Oh, well, see, SolRo gets it. Thank you, SolRo. Finally someone with some sense!

You're wrong, of course; the Enterprise *wouldn't* win. But your thoughts are leading in the right direction.

SolRo
EH; but star trek still wins, because the star wars weapons are impossible.

If your weapons are impossible (or worse, destroy you when you try to use them), then you lose the fight.

memedumpster
I wish Star Kirk had PODracers, those were the coolest.

EvilHomer
>> The Enterprise would travel to the PAST and the either rewrite the timeline to win


Unfortunately, this wouldn't work either. There are two things to remember here: the gap in technology, and the introductory scroll from Star Wars. "A long time ago, in a galaxy //far, far, away//".

What is the significance of these two factors? Well simply put, the only way Star Trek and Star Wars could get into a fight is if Star Wars came to the Star Trek galaxy. The USS Enterprise can barely manage to travel between star clusters; the Millennium Falcon can cross an entire galaxy in a matter of days. Obviously, these two vessels need to find a spot they can both reach, and since the Enterprise can barely get out of it's own quadrant, let alone get out of it's own galaxy, the Trek galaxy has to be where the battle is joined.

Why do I bring this up? Well, because *even if* the Enterprise could find a way to warp back in time (and there's no reason to suppose it could do this, when such warps are almost always accidental), even if, it would still **be stuck in its own galaxy**!!! The Enterprise would be completely unable to alter the course of history within the Star Wars galaxy. At best, maybe the Enterprise could find a way to warp back to the beginning of the fight; you know, like maybe the moment the Enterprise's warpcore detonates, it creates a time-vortex that sends the crew back to the morning of the battle.

But that wouldn't do any good, because the Enterprise could fight the Falcon a million times **and it would still lose**! This is a classic Kobayashi Maru situation, only this time, you can't rewrite the program. It would be horrific, too, because the crew of the Enterprise would be doomed to relive the moments of their deaths millions, billions of times over, at least until the Captain finally wises up and takes his warpcore offline, precluding the time warp and allowing the Enterprise to finally die like a samurai.

EvilHomer
SolRo - No, they're not "impossible", merely improbable.

And even if they *were* impossible, and this *did* preclude their use (remember: this is sci-fi we're talking about; impossibility != inadmissibility), all this would mean is that Star Wars would cease to exist and the fight would be invalid. If the Falcon's technology is impossible, then the Falcon does not exist. If the Falcon does not exist, then the Enterprise cannot fight it. If the Enterprise cannot fight it... then the Enterprise cannot win.

Furthermore, if we want to split hairs about impossibility, then many of the things the Enterprise does - like traveling back in time to save some stupid whales - are impossible, too. Therefore, the Enterprise would cease to exist, too. We'd have no fight, period. How fucking boring is that? That's a completely unacceptable outcome.

memedumpster
Q would never let them win. Q is greater than the Force.

EvilHomer
BESIDES, we already have our premise: the Enterprise fights the Falcon. Saying one ship or other cannot exist is unacceptable; this is not a discussion about whether such a fight WOULD happen, but rather, a discussion of what would occur IF IT DID.

memedumpster
If the Marconi Falconi won it would lose.

The Pinterestprize blowing up would take it with it. It has antifuckyoumatter engines, often used to blow shit up.

EvilHomer
Ah yes, I'm glad you brought that up, Meme. I was actually thinking of mentioning it to SolRo re: impossible things.

The problem with this is, the stipulation is a fight between the Enterprise and the Falcon. Not a fight between the Enterprise, the Falcon, and Q. Is Q part of the Enterprise? No, he is not. You can't invoke him here.

Furthermore, even if you could, and you did, invoke Q, what's to say Q would side with the Enterprise? Q loves to fuck up the Enterprise's day. he also loves humans as amoral and daring as he himself. Q'd take one look at Han, and he'd say to himself "That there is the kind of man I want to go on adventures with!" Han would be Q's new Vash, and the Enterprise would be bantha fodder.

The one and only hope for the Enterprise would be for the Q-Discord multiverse theory to be correct (that is, that Q is Discord manifested in the hyooman universe): if it is, then Fluttershy might be able to beam through to the Star Trek galaxy, and stop the time-looped fight between the Enterprise and the Falcon with the Power of Friendship. That could make a good movie. Or a fanime, depending on what George Lucas thinks of the idea.

EvilHomer
Why would the Falcon get so close to the Enterprise that the explosion takes out the Falcon, too?

memedumpster
Because its guns suck and can't hit anything not within WWII tailgunner range.

SolRo
because the falcon is a movie device...it has to do a low flyby of the enterprize, dodging torpedoes, as it starts exploding.

so that's the other problem, impossible weapons, plus action movie tactics.

EvilHomer
When your ship is capable of withstanding 22,000 megaton turbolaser blasts and your enemy can barely muster 60, you can afford to showboat a little.

In fact, if the entire power output of the USS Enterprise discharged inches away from the Falcon's hull, I doubt it would even breach the Falcon's shields. The Falcon could probably just ram the Enterprise's bridge, sheering off the entire command section of the Starfleet vessel, and the Falcon would still be no worse for wear.

memedumpster
EvilHomer forgets that the Enterpenis has a weapon so mighty, so powerful, that even Star Warps agrees the Millennial Falcor is helpless against it... THE TRACTOR BEAM.

They would be dragged helplessly into the shuttle bay and have to fight their way to the bridge to shut it off, and we all know they'd get owned doing that. Worf vs. Chewbacco? Nooop. Ham Solon vs. Riker... okay, Ham Solomy vs. Picard? Noooop! DataSexTron could take them all out by himself, unlike Straw Wars robits, he has rights.

EvilHomer
No, I know about the tractor beam; I didn't mention it because it's worthless. The tractor beam wouldn't be able to match the power of the Millennium Falcon's engines! Again, we're talking about a vessel that's capable of traversing an entire galaxy in less time than it takes the Enterprise to arrive at a new star system. A Star Destroyer? The Deathstar? Those are the kinds of ships which produce enough power for a tractor beam worthy of ensnaring the Millennium Falcon. The Enterprise? Not a chance.

Again, you cannot escape this one simple fact: the Falcon is is many orders of magnitude more powerful and advanced than the Enterprise. It is to the Enterprise what the Enterprise might be to an Inuit canoe. The Trekkers simply cannot fight the Falcon with any of their universe's shipboard systems.

memedumpster
Then why does its holograms use claymation instead of cgi? The Menstrual Felcher may come from an advanced universe, but it, itself is cheap. Bottom of the line. As is. Just because your galaxy can make a super duper laser, doesn't mean your garbage trucks have them. The Innuitprize tractor bling can drag shit at warp speed, it's more than enough for claymation holoship.

EvilHomer
Relevance? Unless you're going to argue that the Enterprise can beat the Falcon by flinging weaponized 3D chess boards at it, then there's no point in even bringing that up.

At any rate, Star Wars holograms don't use claymation, they use holographic technology, albeit of a less-sophisticated variety than those of the Star Trek universe. Why are the Star Wars vessels so much faster and stronger than their Trek counterparts, yet their entertainment technology is markedly more limited? Well, I suspect that this has something to do with cultural priorities: the Galactic Republic is wise, hard-working, and scientifically-minded. The Federation, in contrast, is a Huxleyan dystopia that needs to keep its population dumb and apathetic at all times, for fear that the masses will wake up and revolt. If you want art and philosophy and light-sabers and starships the size of small planets, you go to Star Wars. If you want celebrity gossip, forbidden holographic sex slaves, and Whoopie Goldberg lecturing you, then you go to Star Trek.

memedumpster
Right, magic virus.

That guy
geekparade

SolRo
star trek is a commie utopia, there are plenty of artists, poets, and musicians doing nothing, living off the federation.

star wars on the other hand probably has very little culture outside of the gated upper tier planets, as they're either struggling frontiers, struggling colonies for the gated planets, or war zones.

SolRo
end of the day, because the falcon is a purely fantasy prop, you cant have it up against something based on real physics.

The proper question would be; Who would win, The millennium falcon or jesus?

memedumpster
There was actually a TNG about Worf joining a bunch of domestic terrorists because he was tired of watching his girlfriend go to artsex orgies with people who never got their asses shot at defending the Federation. He learned a lot about sharing.

SolRo
followup;

who would win in a bare knuckle fight, Mike Tyson, or a Gundam?

Bobonne
Mass Produced?

EvilHomer
SolRo - right, Star Trek is a "commie" dystopia, by way of Huxley. The closest thing the Federation has to true "artists" are either Social Realists, or graphic designers working on government propaganda material. Everything else is cheap, mass-produced prole feed, meant to distract the underclasses and keep them from realizing what an exploitative shithole they live in. Non-Party members aren't allowed free access to replicator technology (DS9 "Babel"; so much for post-scarcity) and Starfleet's ranking officers are invariably depicted as enjoying "old Earth" art and music (such as 20th century jazz), instead of whatever contemporary entertainment is available to them. Why? Well, clearly because, as intelligent, educated individuals, the custom-bred Alphas of their society, these officers realize that everything cultural their society produces is a sham! The same goes for the Holodeck itself. Where are the new stories? The "modern" programs? Everything you see on the Holodeck is either a military simulation exercise, or it's a cloyingly nostalgic reboot of some IP franchise that's existed for more than five hundred years - Robin Hood, Shakespeare, Dixon Hill etc.

In the 25th century, all property is owned by a single omnipotent, globalist monopoly, but hey! If you join the military, and you study real hard, then maybe one day you could escape the horrors of your IRL existence on the Holodeck, by pretending to be a 16th-century musketeer!

A related point to bear in mind is that the extreme sophistication of the Federation's virtual entertainment technology contrasts strongly with the almost complete lack of real-world artwork and decoration. Many observers have noted this in the past, but the Starship Enterprise is a bleak, Spartan affair; almost aggressively bland and colorless. In TOS, the pre-communist series (best Trek!), this was understandable, as Kirk's Enterprise was understood to be an instrument of war. But by TNG, the official party-line had changed: war was now peace, the Enterprise was now a heavily-armed "science vessel" meant for "peaceful exploration". You'd think that, as the Enterprise-D had families and children aboard, the ship would look warmer, more homey. Yet it did not. Why? Because the system is designed from the top-down to break people and control them. The drab beige corridors of the Enterprise, that IS their vision of home. That's how the people of the Federation live; without art, without color, without hope. They exist, not in perfect liberty, to better themselves and explore the limits of their own potential (as utopia was once understood), but in lifelong bondage, to serve the whims of the omnipotent landowners of the Federation Council. Their sole respite from this drudgery, particularly now that alcohol has been banned, lies in the cynical scraps of recycled mass entertainment tossed to them by the Federation's technocratic elite.

The Holodeck is the opiate of the masses.

EvilHomer
Look, the short of it is this: the Federation is patterned on Imperial Rome. A highly-centralized, highly-regimented, intrinsically hierarchical society, focused primarily on providing stability and social order, and to do this relying heavily upon Bread and Circuses. Like Imperial Rome, the Federation is very susceptible to corruption at its top levels, and also like Imperial Rome, it lacks any real culture of it's own; it must instead poach culture from conquered peoples, or plunder it from the annals of history. Once in hand, the Federation/Rome is quite adept at delivering this culture to the masses, but of their own artists, they have none.

EvilHomer
Really, when you think about it, the Falcon would doing the crew of the Enterprise a favour by blowing them up.

memedumpster
^^^^
Five more stars!

Star Trek has had schizophrenic characters before, but you're better written. All you left out was that the Enterprince left subspace chemtrails everywhere it went and was responsible for Wolf359 as a false flag operation.

Tough American Bouncer
Let's see... One ship is federation built deep space exploration vessel designed for hostile encounters in mind and has a crew of hundreds. The other is a rust bucket that 2 bit smuggler can own.
fedex
But it can do the Kessel Run in twelve parsecs!


I can't believe I quoted that from memory.
And yes I know a parsec is a measure of distance, not time.

Mr. Purple Cat Esq.
You are all nerds
SolRo
But you've read the comments, you've watched the video.

Now you also know, and you cant un-know!

Now if one of your many hip/cool/sexy friends randomly asks about it, you will bleed from your eyes from the effort it takes to not talk about it.

StanleyPain
Gandalf would just destroy them both.
fedex
serfboards

Hooker
The star of this is all the beautiful actors at ComicCon not knowing some pretty basic ComicCon stuff.

At what point does ComicCon stop being a comic book convention and begin being a horrid consumer-era Medieval festival where all the surfs have to gather around the knights and royalty that don't give a shit about them? At what point does that happen and how long ago did we pass it? I would feel absolutely dreadful if I ever went to one of those, regardless of which side of the divide I was on.
Bobonne
If surfboards started becoming a common cosplay accessory, I might start going to comic conventions, really.

oddeye
Enterprise like 1000 times bigger yo
Oktay
Why can't they just get along?
Old_Zircon
Isn't this kind of like asking if the car from Blues Brothers could beat an aircraft carrier?
mouser
Doesn't matter which is more powerful, you just know the Enterprise will explode at the end.
urbanelf
How many warp-core breaches can fit on the head of a pin?
fedex
an infinite number as long as Scotty is there to work miracles

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