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Desc:Context: http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/
Category:News & Politics
Tags:90s, clinton, Prison, white people, mandadory life sentences for children
Submitted:Old_Zircon
Date:02/16/16
Views:823
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Comment count is 28
Old_Zircon
More context: http://thebaffler.com/blog/twilight-superpredators-vargas-cooper
Binro the Heretic
I just can't get excited about Hillary. She's a "go with the flow" politician.

Sure, her views & opinions are different now, but they're not really her views & opinions. They're what she thinks will get her the most votes. I've had enough of that with Obama. I want a radical to shake some shit up.

Maybe Sanders won't be able to get anything done, but Hillary wouldn't do anything. She would get a few token gestures from the right wing, but in the end she, like Obama, will be too afraid her actions might maybe possibly cost the Democrats a few spots in the midterm elections.

If I'm not going to catch a fish, I might as well not catch a big fish.
Waugh
you're smarter than this binro

memedumpster
The consolation is that it takes effort to keep the empire afloat and not sinking from the gross incompetence of its own vile nature.

You have to choose to vote for Bernie to save America. You could just as easily watch it slip beneath the waves in one or two more election cycles as usual.

I don't know if my rhetoric is trying to get you to vote or not vote, which is my standard for Internet rhetoric these days.

Waugh is Hillary, by the way, in case we've all forgotten Her Oviqueen's Divine Stratagem. She Who Is Reptilian is not happy with your New Hampshire performance, Waugh. She expects more from the Butcher of Alpha Centauri. The Bernieform was chosen as a contrast, but it's starting to look like a more viable transfoetarch.

Waugh
man even my most embarrassing delusions were never half has inane as your jokes

memedumpster
Her Master Astra Omnimalevolence says to tell you that you may continue to consider being a crushing bore a virtue so long as you don't fuck up any more states.

Waugh
i'll show your skull a crushing bore, casper

memedumpster
Oh god, Waugh is negging me. Look, I'm not your type and I'm not willing to change religions to suit your mother.

memedumpster
Unless you become president.

Xenocide
We need guns to hunt today's modern superpredators, like the flying squirrel, and the electric eel!
somedongus
Por vous!

memedumpster
The halcyon days when a generation looked to the younger one with fear and trembling of the unknown.

Boy those days are gooooone. So gone.
Bort
Yeah fair enough, Hillary has been a major political player for almost 25 years now and she's got more skeletons than closet.

If only she'd been completely inconsequential these past 25 years the way Bernie has, she wouldn't have a record that could in any way be criticized.
memedumpster
So you agree then that Barack Obama was really only fit to bring her coffee (like the ex president said), and his presidency was grossly inexperienced, incompetent, and left us worse off?

Of course, we both know she and Bernie both have passed seven bills total and have their names all over other bills also loaded with Democrat and Republican names, but that's bad rhetoric and you can't force what you see as inferior humans to vote your way with reason. Politics is intrinsically the art of forcing an idiot population to build your world for you instead of one for themselves, after all.

I love your argument though that a cringeworthy record is better than none at all. Chris Christie is obviously superior to most of the Democrat candidates in this regard.

This is a weak response, I'm doing ten things at once lately and I can't pretend to care about the Planet of the Apes as much as I want to, but I still enjoy taking breaks to do this! Don't give up on me. Go for her record as Seccy O' State or something.

memedumpster
Holy fuck Bort you've made me a moderate, it just hit me while rereading this mess.

Well played.

Oscar Wildcat
People forget, The Hillz was a Goldwater Girl back in the day. She's drank the AuH2O, if you will excuse my lack of subscripting skill.

That said, I think the Democratic primary is actually pretty good. Both candidates are clearly defined in style and philosophy and represent a pretty good fight for the soul of the party.

I am not sure what the hell is going on with the R. side, other than Donald Trump demonstrating how to campaign to a bunch of wealth toadies and boobs. I suppose there is John Kasich, but if you like that kind of thing you're probably not voting R. to begin with.

Bort
"So you agree then that Barack Obama was really only fit to bring her coffee (like the ex president said), and his presidency was grossly inexperienced, incompetent, and left us worse off?"

Obama's quick political rise and lack of experience was unquestionably a strike against him, which is (part of) why he picked Joe Biden as a running mate.

Bernie's got a different problem: he's been in Washington for a long time and has no accomplishments to his name, good or bad.

As far as superpredators go, bear in mind that there was an increase in violent crime in the 90s, and nobody was quite sure what was the cause or how to deal with it. It's easy to laugh at "superpredators" today but that was one idea of what was going on. And the Clintons caught hell over stuff like midnight basketball games too, so they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't. Some problems defy easy analysis or easy solutions, but a president has to do his or her best anyway: making mistakes, disappointing supporters and opposition alike, still trying to get things done, hopefully racking up more successes than failures.

I haven't seen any sign that Bernie is ready to contend with that. He wants to be president of Progressiva, not the president of the United States.

My ideal presidential candidate would be Barney Frank: a man with progressive leanings but also the awareness that you need to work with what the system gives you to get anything done. And he authored actual bills in his day, the sort of thing that Bernie's mob tends to take great issue with because they aren't as pure expressions of progressive ideals so much as the best compromise that could be passed to address a problem. Well that's our system, and Bernie's been around long enough that he should know that.

By the way, violent crime rates have been going down for years, and nobody's quite sure why. It probably wasn't entirely the midnight basketball, though one never knows.

Bort
"People forget, The Hillz was a Goldwater Girl back in the day. She's drank the AuH2O, if you will excuse my lack of subscripting skill."

And in 1972 Bernie was writing about how women fantasize about being raped. I think we would probably do well to allow for some changes in the candidates' perspectives over time, and what they said a half century ago has little bearing on what they believe today.

Old_Zircon
"bear in mind that there was an increase in violent crime in the 90s"


Actually, violent youth crime had been sharply declining for over a year already when this clip happened. The 90s saw a massive decrease in crime across the board. Sure there was a lot of crime in the early 90s (thanks Reagan and bush) but by '93 that was already starting to improve for reasons entirely unrelated to bringing (black) teenagers to heel.

Old_Zircon
Honestly, my ideal bill would be Elizabeth Warren with Sanders or Frank as VP.

Old_Zircon
It's worth noting that Sanders also voted for the bill that this clip is referring to.

Old_Zircon
As far as the "getting bills passed" red herring, I'm going to resort to copying and pasting because that's all the effort it deserves:


"As a Senator, Clinton sponsored three bills that became law: S.3145, S.3613, and S.1241. The first of these renamed a highway in New York state, the second renamed a post office in New York City, and the third established the Kate Mullany National Historic Site in Troy, New York and authorized funding to set the site up.
During Sanders’ time in the Senate, he sponsored two bills that became law: S.885 and S.893. The first of these renamed a post office in Vermont. The second increased compensation for disabled veterans and their families.
While Sanders chaired the Senate’s Veteran Affairs committee during 113 Congress (2013-2014), 13 of the committee’s bills became law. That may not sound like a lot until you realize that the Senate Veterans Affairs (VA) committee only passed 8.5 bills into law on average during each of the past 20 Congresses and that these 13 bills became law during the second least productive Congressin American history.
Sanders’ most significant achievement during 113 Congress was passing a .3 billion bipartisan VA reform bill that expanded existing and created new health care facilities, allowed veterans to go outside the VA system to private health care providers when wait times are too long or if a veteran lives more than 40 miles away from a VA facility, and made it easier to fire VA officials.
Sanders was so effective as a legislator that the (right-wing) Veterans of Foreign Wars awarded him its highest honor in 2015."

The score is

Hillary: 3 inconsequential bills passed, 0 consequential bills passed
Bernie: 1 inconsequential, 1 consequential

Old_Zircon
Sources:

https://pplswar.wordpress.com/2015/10/21/fact-bernie-sanders-g ot-more-done-in-the-senate-than-hillary-clinton/

http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/30/just-3-bills-sponsored-by-se n-hillary-clinton-became-law/

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/bernard_sanders/40035 7

http://www.ijreview.com/2015/12/503111-here-are-the-3-bills-hi llary-clinton-sponsored-that-became-law-while-u-s-senator/

Bort
Hillary has also been an (informal) arm of the White House and Secretary of State, which don't lend themselves to a bill count.

And that VA bill was a good thing all right, but it wasn't even Sanders' bill (it was sponsored by Representative Harold Rogers, R-KY). He did negotiate with Senate Republicans to come up with a compromise they could deal with, so credit to him for that. That said, the final version passed the Senate 91-3 and the House 420-5, so it was hardly a fundamentally contentious bill.

Old_Zircon
Bort, s.893 was sponsored by Sanders. What post are you reading? It certainly wasn't mine.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s893


From now on I'm limiting myself to shallow emotional appeals and emoticons.

Bort
Apologies, I was looking at HR 3230. Misgoogled it.


memedumpster
What I miss?!

:D

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