yeah russia should go the fuck home already

Putin and his cronies want to acquire that land.

Not for Russia, for themselves.

They started this war for selfish reasons. To blame the victims for trying to defend themselves is obscene.

And to act like Russia hasn't lost much of their young men is absurd. Not just from deaths in battle, but also tons have fled.

Yes Putin wants to personally own Ukraine. This is a real opinion held by somebody that is presumably an adult. Good job.

Not just Putin, the other oligarchs want to get their grimy mitts on it as well.

You think if it gets conquered they won't rush in and gobble up all the land & resources?

You think American corporations aren’t already buying out Ukraine for pennies on the dollar at the behest of the American government?

That would be a risky investment because if Trump wins he's going to immediately cut all aid to Ukraine.

No, I'm sure American corporations are getting rich off Ukraine the old-fashioned way: Juicy government contracts.

And again, you're making it sound like government corruption is a valid excuse for one country to invade another.

Any excuse is valid after America invaded Iraq and killed at least a quarter million people, all because its president wanted to one up his daddy. Said president is still a free man.

And yes your government has invaded and did CIA “regime” changes due to what capitalists consider corruption.

And again, you are supporting a genocide of the Palestinian people because an old book told a bunch of crazy Jews that god says it’s okay.


Also what the fuck is with your stupid mental gymnastics where you’re making up idiotic arguments about Putin wanting to steal land, then you being told America is stealing land, and your conclusion is that Russia invaded Ukraine because of corruption?? Stop drinking or whatever it is you’re doing.

Bush II didn't want to one-up his daddy. He wanted to hand out big luscious contracts overflowing with taxpayer dollars to his buddies.

He had just gutted the public sector and wanted to hand out piles of money to people who were already rich. That's all Iraq and Afghanistan were about.

And Ukraine is a lucrative chunk of real estate with rich farmland and access to the Black Sea. I watched our nations leaders and industrialists use war as a profit machine, what makes you think the Russians controlling the levers of power are any different?

And I guess you haven't read all the other threads where I express my horror and objection to what Israel is doing to Gaza, her people and all Palestinians.

Maybe I should be asking what Ukraine did to you? This seems personal.

I guess one of the clearest and most blatant examples of the horrible pieces of nationalist Nazi shits running Ukraine, and the blind international support of those Nazis, is the terror bombing of the Kerch bridge and deliberate execution of the unknowing driver of the truck that Ukraine hired to carry the explosives across the bridge. To this day you can google it and all you will see is glowing praise for this terror attack and no mention of the civilian victims.

Ukraines publicly celebrated executions and assassinations of any civilians who “collaborate” with Russia (and when a Russian military unit did the same in Bucha then it’s “genocide”)

Oh yeah the whole thing where a bunch of Nazi nationalists with western backing overthrew the legitimate government and immediately proceeded to violently suppress and murder the Russian speaking population in the East using Nazi militias

How could I not just celebrate all that and put a Ukrainian flag on my car?!

@binro, We will win, to the last Ukrainian!

"To blame the victims for trying to defend themselves is obscene."
This is true.

Z-comedian is not a victim in all this. He is a very well paid piano player.
Those that fill their bank accounts and look after their own interestes before that of the country they were elected to serve, are not victims.


The victims are the 250,000 dead men who will never be fathers.



To the last Ukrainian.
This battle cry sickens.

What exactly did Ukraine do to Russia?

Since 2014 the corrupt puppet government of Ukraine has allowed Ukrainian nationalists (including a significant number of organized, open, swastika-wearing nazis) to commit hate crimes against people of Russian ethnicity mainly in the Donbass region of eastern Ukraine. In addition to this Ukraine has been open about it's desire to join NATO, which considering the instability and aggression of the Ukrainian government would be a major threat to the stability of Russia.

Speaking Russian in Ukraine is illegal. Opposition political parties are illegal. Media criticism of the government of Ukraine is illegal. It's a corrupt gangster regime no different from Putin's own, just on a much smaller scale.

And to make this even worse, and I know you wont accept this, but

**everybody involved in this debacle knew that it ended with Ukraine ceding territory to Russia, from the very first day that this started**

because this was never about protecting Democracy or sovereignty or whatever MSNBC had brainwashed you to believe. The fucking US government was even open about this; our participation in this was intended to prolong it as long as possible, to deplete Russian military resources. Not to actually "win," whatever you think that would look like.

We armed these people and diplomatically blocked and interfered with negotiations so that Ukrainian people could use up Russian bombs and bullets. And now when it's over, the people that could have ended this a year and a half ago, hundreds of thousands of lives ago, will say "Putin did this!" and ask you to vote for them.

Ukraine didn't roll over and let russia subjugate, rape and starve their country again. Everybody knows all slavs are permanent property of moscow until the end of time

I repeat, Crackersmack, what did Ukraine do to Russia?

Because if having a a corrupt government, neonazis with political influence and demanding everyone speak only one language makes them the bad guy, Canada needs to come down here and annex us.

And if the left is pushing the narrative that this is about democracy & freedom, then the right is pushing the narrative that this is about "traditional" values.

It's about geopolitical power, not morality. Ukraine joining the "fuck russia" military alliance was a threat to Russia. They responded predictably to protect their security interests. The whole thing could have been avoided with withdrawing their NATO application and a neutrality treaty regime.

But, as Crackersmack articulated, the US neo-con security establishment was willing to sacrifice the lives of tens of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians, as well as turn Ukraine into a burned out partially occupied/annexed rump state in order to weaken Russia. This was entirely so that we'd be in a better position to fight a war with China without Russia interfering.

Then it was stupid of Putin to take the bait, wasn't it?

Considering how Russia has rebuilt its military by shifting to a wartime economy, and will continue to do so for a while after Ukraine is over, the end result will be a Russian military much stronger than it would have been if it were left to rust in 2022.

Your only accomplishment will be the one you enjoy most; murdering foreigners that don’t look or think like you



Oh yeah and you’re still supporting the genocide in Gaza from up on your “moral high ground”

I guess Russia is at least murdering foreigners that look and think like them.

You’re still happily supporting the mass murder of brown women and children

When did I support that?

I'm going to see if I can take some sort of middle ground and get through to the local Russia apologists.

I can absolutely understand why the Russians would not want Ukraine to join NATO: the idea of what is essentially an anti-Russian alliance on their doorstep would naturally make them nervous. And I have no real interest in seeing Ukraine join NATO: they've got a huge, unstable border with Russia and NATO membership would mean that any damn-fool incident on it might start a war that would pull in everyone from Portugal to Canada to New Zealand. Any security deals we make with the Ukrainians should be bilateral.

We could talk until the end of time about who wanted to plunder whom. I have no idea whether Putin would have been content with installing a puppet government in Kyiv or would have flat-out erased the border that separates Ukraine from Russia. But the fact remains that I think that Putin misread the situation. Yes, Ukraine has been getting comfortable with NATO for years, and conferences have been held and assurances made, but the United States promises lots of things to lots of countries and never comes even close to following through on them. I think that NATO membership for Ukraine falls into this category. George W. loved this idea, and McCain and Obama supported it, but, at the end of the day, Obama was too much of realist to actually go through with it. Frankly, I'm amazed that Putin actually thought that it would happen. But autocratic figures don't usually face too much internal opposition and their view of the world isn't guaranteed to match reality, especially if they've been in the captain's chair for a while. As valid as some of his concerns might have been, at least from a Russian perspective, I think he made an enormous mistake by invading. Russia's paying for it now, and so's Ukraine.

As for the geopolitical angle, Anthony Blinken has actually said that one of our priorities is to limit Russia's ability to do exactly this sort of thing to another one of it's neighbors. I'm old enough to remember the tanks rolling out of the Baltics, and Poland, and the Czech Republic, and I would rather not see them roll back in. An American priority? Not just an American priority. Almost all Czechs, Balts, and Poles and other assorted Slavs have no interest at all in that, either. You bitch and whine about a (more than appropriate) draft in Ukraine, but Ukraine's soldiers are, even now, better motivated than Russia's, who are dying in numbers unknown in Europe since the Second World War. They do not love the Russians in Eastern Europe, and, considering their Soviet experience, no wonder. Once upon a time, the USSR was simply too powerful for anyone to do anything about it, but Russia's looking a whole lot like a power in decline these days, which really throws that "Great Power" Kissinger logic out the window. Yes, the Russian army's been performing better than it did during its absolutely disastrous first attempt to take Kyiv, but SolRo's contention that the Russian army will soon be a lean, mean fighting machine reads as pure fantasy.

I have no idea if Ukraine can actually achieve total victory against the Russians: during the war's first phase, it looked possible, and now it looks much less so. A deal may have to be cut, though the fact that Russia may get to chew off Ukraine's eastern provinces even after fighting a badly executed war with a bullshit cassus belli galls me, and I expect it galls many others on both sides of the Atlantic, too. That's up to the Ukrainians themselves, or at least up to whoever's running Ukraine right now. I have no problem saying that the United States should continuing contributing oodles of money to absolutely vaporize every single Russian soldier currently on Ukrainian territory. Fuck the Russians, and fuck their Western apologists, most of whom are the sort of dumb blame-everything-on-the-US leftists I once thought only existed in the mind of particularly stupid conservatives. Ashtar, Crackersmack! You've really outdone yourselves. But no amount of self-flagellation is going to make the folks in Warsaw and Riga feel more secure abut their collective future, and they'd rather that future not involve lots of Russian soldiers on their territory.

You little jingo cock suckers are so easy to fool into wishing for the extermination of hundreds of thousands of people just with a little bit of propaganda.

You are exactly the people the Nazis convinced to dehumanize “the other” and then run the concentration camps for them, because there is no doubt in your mind that the enemy is sub human and is an unjustified mindless evil that must be exterminated to the last child.

You’re a disgusting excuse for a person

Miss Henson's 6th grade class
My points here are:

1. Russia is behaving rationally to preserve its interests. (They're certainly not behaving morally, and I would love to see them held accountable for that.) Putin sucks, but he's not a cartoon villain.

2. This war could probably have been avoided. But we preferred bleeding Russia to preserving Ukraine. We could have also pushed for a negotiated settlement earlier, but we wanted to bleed Russia and had an unrealistic idea of how wars with Russia tend to go.

I do respect your points and appreciate the attempt at moderation. I do not mean to apologize for Russia, just to point out that the West is significantly culpable in this, and has consistently put harming Russia above the lives of Ukrainians. I do not think we appreciate how grim the future there is.

Speaking Russian is not illegal, Sugar Smacks:

The Constitution of Ukraine, adopted by the Verkhovna Rada on 28 June 1996, states at article 10: "The state language of Ukraine is the Ukrainian language. The State ensures the comprehensive development and functioning of the Ukrainian language in all spheres of social life throughout the entire territory of Ukraine. In Ukraine, the free development, use and protection of Russian, and other languages of national minorities of Ukraine, is guaranteed".

So opposition political parties are forbidden, but Nazis are allowed? That's fucked up.

Link to above (wikipedia)

https://tinyurl.com/3bvu9j99

Russian books and music are illegal though, and that being the case the nationalist do harass people for speaking Russian in Ukraine and do things like try to get them fired

Imagine being an American in the year 2024 and thinking that "the United States should continuing contributing oodles of money to absolutely vaporize every single Russian soldier"

Like if you are even a tiny bit aware of current events, if you live in any kind of urban area in the contiguous US, imagine how disconnected from the rapid degradation of the environment that you actually live in you would have to be for "containing Russia" to even be in your top 100 most important things to do. Is the cable news propaganda that compelling?

I'm better off that most and I just don't understand how you could find that time to give a single shit about what Russia does or does not do. To find the energy to hold all these strong principles about Ukrainian sovereignty but in the same breath say that Israel is justified in any part of their genocide. Too bad nothing can be done about Israel, Biden just has to let them. But we will hunt every Russian Orc to the ends of the earth because they are pure evil. Meanwhile the city you live in has large parts of it that literally look like they were bombed. Thousands of people sleep on the street every night all around you. Can't generate any of that "kill every Russian" energy for that problem though can you.

Ashtar: thank you for being respectful and for meeting me halfway here. It's probably true that the war could have been avoided, but that's something for the historians to figure out, frankly. People still write their theses on whether the First World War could have been avoided. One of those interesting counterfactuals. Someday we might have a good idea of where the final turn-off might have been. But most people think that wars will be short and decisive, and its likely that many Russians did when they first went over the border. There were more than enough American analysts who did and were then amazed that Ukraine repulsed Russia's initial thrust. At what point supporting Ukraine gives way to just bleeding Russia for the heck of it I don't know and can't answer the question. But the recent instability at the top of of Ukraine's command structure suggests that a good amount of the brass there is close enough to calling it quits, or "good enough."

Crackersmack, first of all, I'm an American who lives abroad, and I come from an expatriate family. My parents came from depressed Massachusetts mill towns, moved out in the seventies, and never went back. We have never been State Department or government people. But I know what downtown Worcester looks like, and it ain't pretty.

But you always hear this on the left: for the amount we spend on x, we could build y in the United States. They're always fun comparisons, but exist mostly in a simplified universe where you can magically transform B-2 bombers into subways in Detroit. Needless to say, the world is more complicated than that and you can't just shift money a into account b without causing a couple hundred other changes which affect things every which way. All of this is an ideological flip side to Trump/Buchanan isolationism, and there's a point at which it stops making much sense. It's hard to measure the impact of what might happen, if, say, the Chinese whatever became the world's reserve currency, or if Singapore was blockaded, or if Germany were made to feel uncomfortable, or, well, any of the other thousand things that Americans take more-or-less for granted were to change, but power vacuums are usually filled. If you don't like the way that the US runs the world, you should see how China or Russia do it. You might find you like it even less. Where the line should be drawn is a discussion we can have, but I really do think that the global balance of power as it refers to Russia is uh, to put it mildly, somewhere above our 100th national priority. Just a tad, ya know?

It isn't that I think that the size of the US military budget isn't incredibly bloated: of course it is. But compared to other disasters we've faced in that department, from the Osprey to the Crusader missile to that new F-35 to Star Wars, the few billions that we've thrown at Ukraine is peanuts. Heck, it might just be peanut shells. Remember that at the height of the Second Iraq War, we were spending a billion dollars every four days. On something that got us zip. We are more or less forbidden from putting troops into Ukraine, although apparently we had about a dozen special forces guys there for ten minutes, which shocked the heck out of me. One of the rules remains that you can't get into a conventional war with a nuclear power. The Ukraine/Russia conflict is a proxy war by definition, and while I hate to agree with Lyndsay Graham on anything, but wartime aid to the Ukraine really is the best money we've ever spent. We should keep doing it until the war looks unwinnable, either to us or to the Ukrainians.

SolRo: Oh, eff off. Nazi this, genocide that. I'll have you know that my mother's family emigrated from Poland not too many generations ago, so any claims of anti-Slav bias on your part are pure nonsense. Both of my grandparents on that side spoke Polish fluently. But my mother would like to see the Russians as far away from the Polish border as possible, and so, the recent rise in the popularity of self-defense militias back in the old country would indicate, do the Poles themselves.

But even if I did loathe Russians as a whole -- and I don't, and don't know why I would -- not being particularly bothered by the deaths of soldiers in war does not come close to being a genocidal thought. Soldiers hold a relatively privileged position in war, having the ability to attack and retaliate, which is more than people in Ukrainian cities sitting though tonight's more or less indiscriminate bombing/drone attack have. Soldiers die in wars. A whole lot of Russian soldiers have died in this one. That's what signing on the dotted line gets you, whether you're drafted or you sign up. The country I live in fought a marvelously unsuccessful war about fifty years ago that I don't consider to be in the least justified, and I'm tired of hearing from the soldiers lost in that venture, too. War has needless victims, but they're usually civilian. I'm tired of pretending that soldiers whose actions I consider pretty much morally inexcusable should be on the top of my pity list. For the last twenty years or so, Russians have, for the most part, traded a relatively significant amount of power to Vladimir Putin for relative peace and stability. Given their history, and especially what happened after the USSR fell apart, I can understand why they might have wanted to. But forgive me if saying that the plight of the Russian grunt doesn't exactly tug at my heartstrings, even while I recognize that he is, in many ways, not so different than I am. I suspect that if the real casualty figures from the current ongoing special military operation ever get released to the Russian public, Vlad might get his dacha burned to the ground by some people who they'll really bother, but who really knows.

Anyway, you're most of the reason why visiting PoETV isn't fun anymore and most of the reason why I never post anymore. So much emotionally-charged pro-Kremlin bullshit and I'm just here for the weird archival videos and the funny cats. I strongly suspect that I'm not the only one who can say that.

Class; you’re an ignorant whiney bitch.

I entered this post with an objective and rational observation of the conflict only to get dog piled by other ignorant bitches like you, spouting off nothing but idiotic nonsense and hatred of Russians, which you added to with your wish to murder hundred of thousand of Russian soldiers.

When I justifiably went off on your stupid asses, you suddenly start crying about how -I’m- ruining poetv for you idiots that wish to mass murder people like me.

Fuck off.


And if you hate getting anything other than a circlejerk from your fellow idiot NAFO propagandist talking points then stay out of these posts, you entitled little bigot.

Let's agree on terms, bitchface: soldiers are not "murdered" in war. They die. They are killed. They are classed as casualties. When civilians die in a war zone, that's a lot closer to murder, though it's still probably not the right term. "Collateral damage", which was given to us, indirectly, by that sage, George W. Bush, is a linguistic abomination. Russian soldiers are not being "murdered" in Ukraine. They are being killed. Since this is a war -- oops! A "special military operation" -- that's hardly unusual.

Look, I bear no animosity towards Russians in Russia, Russians outside Russia -- many of whom are all over my town right now -- or Americans of Russian descent. But I hardly think it's wrong to say that I oppose Russia's invasion of Ukraine and hope that Russia pays for it in ways large and small. That may not be generous, but it's hardly genocidal. Furthermore, if you haven't noticed, the Biden administration has agonized on whether to send any longer-range weapons to Ukraine precisely because hitting a civilian target deep in Russian territory might set off a larger, less manageable conflagration. This doesn't seem like genocidal logic to me.

I think the American government has a real interest in putting the brakes on Russia's expansionist ambitions. If that offends you because you identify with the barely-trained kids fighting on Russia's front line, I can't help you there, and I don't care. But that's hardly an "objective" viewpoint. You can deal with your cultural identity issues on your own time, frankly.

If you read my response to Crackersmack, you might understand why I'm happy and proud to be an American, but am not really cut out to be any kind of nationalist. An American is just what I am. Look, I was over in one of the Emirates during the Second Iraq War and while nobody every said anything to me, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Arabs who opposed the US invasion weren't all that sad about the fact that Uncle Sam was taking it on the chin from the local resistance, and hard. How can I blame them? It saddens me that four thousand American soldiers came home in coffins and that many more came home without arms or legs. It was a stupid, unnecessary, avoidable war. But I'd hardly expect the locals in the Emirate where I was to cry themselves to sleep over American casualties. I can't possibly take that sort of shit personally. Have a think about how this applies to your own situation, and then fuck off.

You gleefully want hundreds of thousands of Russians to die for your country’s hegemonic ambitions, what kind of mental illness do you have?

You don’t want peace, you want people you are taught are your enemies to either be subservient or to die.

You are no different than the Zionists in Israel, believing you are absolute good and any action you take is justified, that rules are something you impose on others but are optional for you.

Considering the fact that you can't stop calling Ukrainians and their leaders Nazis and warmongers, it's hardly your place to sit around whining about empathy and peace. At least I've been able to articulate what I think might be Russian misgivings about a NATO that would include Ukraine, which is far more than you've done.

Considering that it's been reported various times that Vladimir Putin doesn't really consider Ukraine a real country, I don't think that you can say that I'm the one that wants somebody else to "be subservient or die." Vlad banged on about this to Tucker Carlson for so long the other week that Tucker got straight-up bored.

Otherwise, it's a pursuit of mutually exclusive interests. Forgive me for assuming that your version of "peace" would be utterly unacceptable to most Ukrainians, at least for the time being, and that some Americans might believe that a Russia that would make Ukraine into a client state might be a threat to the rest of the European continent, in which we have a vital interest.

Did it have to come to this? No. Is it too bad that it did? Yes. Is Russia an enemy of the United States? No, more of a strategic competitor. Are Russians naturally bad, bloodthirsty, or violent people? Of course not. Russians live in a much-less-than-free country and did not make this choice, even indirectly. But it's the Russian army that crossed the border, and while the artillery is flying, we might as well contribute to what we consider an outcome we consider favorable, especially since I don't think there are any moral grounds for this invasion. Am I being gleeful about this? I realize that it's a senseless loss of human life, but I care much more for dead Ukrainian civilians than about anyone in a Russian military (or mercenary) uniform, and I've explained why. Am I being unnecessarily gleeful about this? Perhaps only because your whiny, histrionic, uber-nationalistic tantrums have been pissing me off for so long. I realize that real miscommunication may have occurred between the West and Moscow, but I also think the real blame lies elsewhere.

So you think it’s okay to overthrow unfriendly governments, allow parts of countries to declare independence based on what their local population wants and to annex conquered territories? For powerful countries to dictate to its neighbors what allies and military bases they are allowed to have?

As long as it’s Americans/NATO/israel

Would you have been just as fine and happy if Russia and China armed the Taliban and Iraq to “vaporize” every American soldier committing war crimes against those countries? Or are only Russians deserving of mass extermination? Think about what kind of person you are that you would casually advocate mass murder to “own” someone you don’t even know online.

Just admit you’re a blithering hypocrite whose only awareness of the subject is based on breathless headlines and propaganda thinkpieces in western media.

Jesus Christ, you guys, ad hominem much?

"So you think it’s okay to overthrow unfriendly governments, allow parts of countries to declare independence based on what their local population wants and to annex conquered territories? For powerful countries to dictate to its neighbors what allies and military bases they are allowed to have?"

Wait, who are we talking about here? The army that recently marched on Kyiv and held a bullshit referendum in eastern Ukraine that guaranteed that region's "independence?" The USSR, which kept troops and puppet regimes going from Tirana to Gdansk for a half a century and put down revolutions in Hungary in 1956 and Prague in 1968?

Okay, we're talking about the US, which overthrew the Guatemalan government in '54, the Iranian government in '53, the Chilean government in '73, well, the list goes on. The Haitian and Venezuelan and Dominican governments more times than you can count. As an American, I say: guilty, guilty, guilty. I'm man enough to admit that the United States has not always lived up to its values. Some of this can be explained -- if not excused -- by Cold War realpolitik, some of these incidents were just ill-judged power grabs.

I would not be "happy" to see American soldiers vaporized by other countries' forces on the battlefield, but I'm not so naive to think that it hasn't happened or that it won't happen again. China contributed an enormous amount of materiel and manpower to the Korean War on the North Korean side. Cuba undermined NATO interests all over the place in the third world in the seventies. The Afghanistan and Second Iraq wars were disasters precisely because they essentially opportunities for Al-Qaeda and the Taliban to declare open season on American troops. They attracted jihadi types from all over the planet. Most of that last phenomenon was funded by private individuals and not nations, and while, as an American, I think it unfortunate, I would hardly call it surprising. Turnabout is fair play in this case.

Oh, you know why I call them nazis?

Because they’re nazis

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1b4k5ph/ ua_pov_azov_company_entering_avdiivka_before_it/

The Azov Battalion is extremely troubling and I can't condemn it enough. But it's a fairly isolated relic of Ukraine's extremely anti-Soviet -- and yes, Russophobic -- past. While Ukraine was never the most robust or honest democracy, even at the best of times, I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that anything that goes on in the Azov battalion reflects much of everyday Ukrainian life. Let's remember that in the nineteen thirties Germany -- an actual fascist society -- the Nazi aesthetic was so prevalent that people often said "Heil Hitler" while answering the telephone.

That's before the war, of course. Ukrainians will likely have a much, much lower opinion of their Russian brothers after all of this is done, however it turns out. Yes, even the folks in the mainly Russian-speaking East. But that's just how shit goes.

Jesus Christ how fucking deep down the NAFO hole do you need to be to think east Ukrainians, after being bombed and terrorized by west Ukraine for 10 years “AKKSHUALLY” hate Russia

Okay, well, then I'll put it this way: I wouldn't have been shocked at all if Western Ukrainians had voted to join Russia in a free-and-fair referendum before the war took place, but after 2014. I don't know if I'd make that bet now. But that might be speculation on my part.

You can call me an old head, but I don't consider anything on Reddit proof of anything, though the Azov battalion ain't made up, and so when you call them Nazis, you don't have to convince me.

Wikipedia's kind of borderline, and I'd never accept it as a real on-paper in-a-journal source, but it's much less trustworthy on controversial, hot-button topics than it is on more staid academic-type subjects. Of course I use it. But you don't have a lot of credibility with me, to say the least, and I'm getting tired of this shit.

“You can’t link videos of proof on Reddit, you can’t use Wikipedia, but I can make baseless assumptions without proof and act like I’m right”

Fuck off already with your stupid ass NAFO jingo shit and slink off while claiming you won the argument

Useless propaganda guzzling idiot.

“Eastern Ukrainians hate Russia” Jesus Christ you’re so stupid.

Buddy I think if there is one fact that should be objectively clear to all of us is that the wealthy malefactors that run the western world were forced to be a little more humane to workers when communism was a real threat to them, and that everything has gotten worse in the western world since the fall of the USSR because of the loss of that threat.

Not the worst argument you could make, but sort of a separate issue. Anyway, I don't think that anyone in the former East Germany would want to endure ten more minutes in the ex-GDR for all the good their suffering did workers in the West.

Some people were happy in east Germany but don’t let silly reality get in the way of your grandiose jingoism

https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/homesick-for-a-dictat orship-majority-of-eastern-germans-feel-life-better-under-communis m-a-634122.html

Empirical questions can be answered. Opinions vary. Here's a wikipedia article with a comprehensive list of polls.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_nostalgia

I acknowledge what nostalgia and dissatisfaction with current conditions is playing a role here.

Pro-capitalist ideologues do not point to the replacement of communism with capitalism in the former Eastern Bloc as a vindication of their position. Because it was, for most, very objectively bad.

And some people were happy in Detroit in the nineteen eighties. Way to argue, SolRo, you're a champ. First we defend the Russia's blood-soaked little adventure in Ukraine, and now we're defending the GDR. Good show, asshole.

This, along with the reddit and wikipedia links, is just getting silly. I can understand the Ostalgie phenomenon as an aesthetic yearning, but perhaps we should take into account that much of it is felt by people who were kids when Communism ended, and kids aren't usually aware of everything that's going on in society. If we got specific, I doubt that anyone is feeling too sorry that Enver Hoxha and the Stasi have been relegated to the past. The nostalgic feeling people might have for a certain kind of stability or a Soviet aesthetic -- witness the popularity of Depeche Mode in the former Warsaw Pact -- is much easier to understand.

Maybe you guys are either crazier or less intelligent than I gave you credit for. And maybe I should have stayed gone. Whatever alternatives you might offer to capitalism, I can only hope that they don't much resemble the grey, bureaucratic, repressive-by-definition experiment with top-down statist socialism than Eastern Europe went through. I'd rather live in East St. Louis or Worcester, Massachusetts than anywhere like that.

“OMG ALL THESE LINKS TO PROOF ARE SO STUPID! WHY DONT YOU GUYS JUST MAKE SHIT UP WITHOUT PROOF LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE?”

-a raving fucking idiot trying to sound smart in a room full of people who know he’s a clueless moron

Satre endorsed the creation of Israel and supported Israel in the 1968 war.

In 1977 Sartre signed a open letter to the French government demanding that age of consent laws be repealed, specifically in defense of three men that we on trial for molesting children under age 13.

So knowing what we do about how Israel protects pedophiles that flee there to avoid prosecution in their home countries, his support of Israel kinda makes sense.

And then, in 1980, Jean Paul Sartre died.

I'm not finding anything about this prior to 2016.

besides technology what has improved in America since 1991