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Desc:How to explain politely to your ginger son that all black people are murderers
Category:News & Politics, Educational
Tags:racism, for the children, white people, ramzpaul
Submitted:Maru
Date:07/03/13
Views:1799
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Comment count is 59
zerdzer
ramzpaul is cool except he's a nationalist, so it's impossible to agree with half of what he has to say
Chocolate Jesus
His flag waving rubs you the wrong way, huh?

zerdzer
well i straight up disagree with nationalist ideology (because it focuses a lot on race, and i am definitely not a racist). but just because he isn't in agreement with what i say doesn't mean he's a complete idiot; most things he says are intelligent, not everything he says is well informed.

Chocolate Jesus
When he isn't stepping on your toes, which of his intelligent or well-informed ideas do you identify with?

zerdzer
what's important is that you look at the points he makes and agree/disagree those, rather than hear him say one thing you strongly disagree with and just go "oh well this smug white supremacist fuck will never have anything good to say", because then you are making assumptions

zerdzer
because he is a nationalist, he'll be less apologetic about talking about cultures and how they clash.

he is also neither a feminist nor a misogynist

Chocolate Jesus
I didn't say anything about ramzpaul. I just want to know what the intellectual overlap is between you two.

You said he has some okay ideas when he isn't indulging one of his hangups, what are they?

zerdzer
my previous response was my answer to you; he is not biased in any of these ways, and certain things he says are intelligent and well reasoned because of that. you ought to check out his channel and decide for yourself if what he's saying is legit

from my point of view, some of it is

SolRo
"Lots of the racist and stupid shit, but I don't have the balls to say so on the internet"

Spaceman Africa
He's a nationalist libertarian, so I don't know if he could be any more ideologically infantile.

asian hick
"Don't judge him just because he's a racist! Look at all the other stuff he says. He makes some good points I agree with! What's that? No I'm not going to tell you what they are."

You are beyond parody.

zerdzer
he says plenty of legit things about feminism, contemporary american culture, and some politics. he's still within the realm of reality on most things, except for the inherent racism in nationalist ideology. do you want me to link the videos and tell you what parts of them i agree with or what?

it's a bad habit to call somebody names because of their ideology; that is like saying absolutely nothing at all. instead it's better to say why that ideology is bad or what's better instead of it. it's not good to just say "everything this person says is stupid" without looking at every little thing they say and reasoning whether or not it is stupid.

zerdzer
you guys seem to also confuse "racism" with "hatred towards a certain race". it's easier to hate somebody who hates another race or thinks of another race as inferior, so it's easier to think of things in simple terms like this. most people understand racism as a vile thing (and sure, it is), but they don't think about why racism is bad or why a person might be racist. even worse, these same people turn around and act every bit as racist as the racists they supposedly hate.

i could never bring myself to be a racist, but i'll tell you what: a lot of people say they aren't racists are extremely racist.

after having watched a lot of ramzpaul, i am not uncomfortable looking away from his racism videos and instead looking at something else he's talking about. he's usually got an informed viewpoint on whatever it is, the guy isn't stupid. whether or not he's right is a totally other issue, and you gotta decide that for yourself

Maru
Like all liberals, I've read and listened to tons of conservative commentary. This guy is an airhead even by their standards.

Old_Zircon
Distribute these stars amongst yourselves however you see fit.

ashtar.
What are you even talking about.

zerdzer
well, did you read the comments or what

Blue
You should probably be concerned when you have to look past people being openly racist to find someone that shares your views on Feminism.

zerdzer
my views on feminism are not the same as ramzpaul's.

he makes a few good videos related to feminism, take this one for example

http://yout u.be/K4ijW6PjF-Q

memedumpster
PoeTV has shown that all animal mascots that look you in the eye mean rape. Especially if they are horses. A few women, not all women as he argues, feel creeped out by a rapey looking fursuit logo. We live in a country where members of Congress legitimize rape in public speeches. His argument seems like blind misogyny, otherwise it would have context. You can also tell by the vocabulary he uses to describe women.

Here is another of his videos on what's wrong with women.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIgL4S2Ey3k

I am finding his views on feminism (been watching his videos for a bit now) as fun a trainwreck as his videos bringing up race (most of them).

Can we please have "zerdzer defends Ramzpaul videos" week.

Needs "GLOCKenspiel" tag.

Blue
Exactly, Zerdzer. You don't really have any respect for women, so when a racist tells you that a woman wrote an open letter to the university because she thought their scary Husky logo was a little rapey, you just assume that it's true, because you think women are stupid. You think feminists are stupid.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe the racist was lying about what the Feminist's position was? It didn't, and that's why you're so fucking wrong about Feminism. You trust people that are ultimately parroting what Rush Limbaugh said instead of actually listening to what the women themselves have to say.

She wrote a letter to the administration because they hadn't addressed some serious issues, including actual violence against women on the part of some players. The administration hadn't gotten around to addressing those issues, but had gotten around to redesigning the logo. That's not the same thing as thinking the logo looks rapey.

zerdzer
first off, feminists and women are not the same thing.

secondly, you are making a ton of assumptions about me and what i think, and it'd be way better if you just asked me instead of saying silly things like "you're a misogynist" if i disagree with you on anything. i don't actually think any of those misogynist things that you said i think, but if you go into this thinking that i do, how are we actually going to get anything done in a conversation?

sheesh, i never say any rude things to you like that, you know

Blue
So, why did you unquestioningly fall for this ridiculous story, then?

Also, why do you talk about Feminism if you're so ignorant about it? I mean, nearly every single issue is exactly like this one, Feminists saying one thing, and assholes like you laughing at some ridiculous distortion of their words. Now that you know, are you going to actually start learning about it from people that aren't getting their information from Rush Limbaugh?

Blue
And how you feel about Feminists says a lot about how you feel about women.

When you talk about Feminists you're talking about nearly every woman that is actively working toward gender equality. How can they all be doing it wrong?

misterbuns
You guys sound like the women who would get REALLY REALLY PISSED OFF at andy kaufman in the wrestling ring.

Why are you arguing with him? It's either an act or stunning, abiding stupidity worthy of being an act.

Dudebro Zerdzer:

the video you linked isn't a refutation of feminism. it has nothing to do with feminism.

if you are for really need to stop assuming your experience as a human is shared by the rest of the world. Spend some time around people whose problems are nothing like the ones you have.

Like, a lot of time. Like, until you forget what your problems are.

poorwill
zerdzer is the absolute worst.

Toenails
OH GOD SO UNFAIR!!!!
Spaceman Africa
I fucking hate Ramzpaul. He sounds like Plinkett and spews a suffocating amount of smugness about his shitty worldview.
memedumpster
He is an extremely polite idiot. He speaks as if he is capable of learning new things on his own, but his words betray that notion.

The football player / basketball player genetic tweest made me physically cringe.

Miss Henson's 6th grade class
I'm not even watching this because everything about this guy screams "small, twisted, and mean." One of my least favorite internet people ever.

Chocolate Jesus
When he isn't stepping on your toes, which of his intelligent or well-informed ideas do you identify with?
Chocolate Jesus
Quickreply is always giving me shit.

prang
Short version: fuck this guy.

He sez: race is not real, but whites are evil.

He might have heard that thing about how there's more genetic variation within any race than between races. There's evidence that point to the non-existence of race in a scientific sense, beyond certain exceptions in health-related matters. Rather than say "oh, well, this proves racism is stupid and pointless", it can be taken to mean that there's no such thing as race at all, but that's ignorant. Of course race exists, and I've never met anyone able to offer a satisfactory reason why it doesn't.

A parade of cartoon racists have set the bar for racism so high that a lot of white people don't feel like their everyday interactions with non-whites are problematic, because racism is EVIL. The problem is that for the most part, "being nice to the blacks" is how a lot of white people are "not racist". They never drop a single N-bomb! It's easy to not be racist as long as you define a racist as a neo-Nazi.

He sez, "evolution is real, but you're wrong if you believe that people evolved different capacities based on their race" (I think??? this is a stupid argument)

Is he being ironic?

He sez, "hispanics have La Raza, blacks have Black Pride, but white pride? NAZIS!!!"

WHY ISN'T THERE A WHITE HISTORY MONTH

I dunno maybe there's a reason non-whites need racial solidarity and pride. There is a world in which that is a possibility. Maybe in a world where they're minorities with inadequate representation (due to redistricting say) or limited resources because of past injustices. You can't erase the history of racism in North America and the role you're playing in it as a white man with Something To Say just because you're sad.

He sez, "black people are good at football bcuz genetics, asians are good at math bcuz white privilege"

... what? Does he know what white privilege is? (no he doesn't)

Privilege isn't really that complicated. Correct me if I'm wrong, someone's bound to have a better definition: the idea's basically that in a situation where there is a group that is in power and a group that is being marginalized, if you happen to be a part of the group in power then you won't be aware of the full extent of the oppression and what it's like to live on the flipside of an inequitable society. It may never even occur to you that there's a problem because the marginalized groups are underrepresented in society in general (because ghettoes, racist redistricting, media representations, lost job opportunities, a big long list, you can use your imagination).

He sez, "the term hate speech is used by the government to shut down any discussion they don't want you having"

I uh, I don't think that's actually happening, buddy. Pressure from society to NOT BE A BIG FUCKING RACIST and having people tell you you're an IGNORAMUS and that you're WRONG is not the same thing as censorship. Oh, sorry, you want to be free of criticism? I've got a nice little corner set up for you to cry in because nobody is free of criticism.

Seriously though you wanna be racist but you're gonna sob when people talk bad about white people? Get the fuck over yourself.

If you wanna make a big deal about race and how white people are being treated unfairly, just like, I dunno, at least be aware of the current conversation surrounding race. Going BUHHH BUT WHITE PEOPLE without at least understanding white privilege EVEN CONCEPTUALLY makes you look like an idiot.

AAAAAAA.
zerdzer
it is racist that there is a "x color history month". nobody needs racial solidarity or pride. if one race gets a pride/solidarity month, all races should it get, and that's still stupid, because it's racist. if you give a shit about race, you are a racist. this is what i am talking about when i say there are a lot of people out there who supposedly hate racists, but are very racist themselves.

and fuck this "privilege" shit. keeping score on who has it better based on their sex or race is racist and sexist. is a white male supposed to be handicapped somehow because his race and sex has historically had the most "privilege"? what are we supposed to do when a person has too much "privilege"? it's not even their choice whether or not they are considered "privileged".

it's better to just not factor these things into anything, ever.

IrishWhiskey
No, it is not racist to care about race or acknowledge it. That is a truly stupid thing to say. You are a truly stupid person for saying it.

"it's better to just not factor these things into anything, ever."

Only if you benefit from these social inequities are they worth ignoring. If you don't, or if you're a decent human being, it's actually worth acknowledging and trying to address.

zerdzer
"Racism

noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races."

i'm going by the actual definition of racism. and also, i don't benefit from any of those social inequities, i've been on the shitstick end of racism plenty of times in my life(i am not white, as if that should add any credibility???), and i am a decent human being. you gotta stop with the personal attacks on people who say things that you disagree with.

zerdzer
by your logic, ramzpaul is not racist (he is pretty racist, but at least he realizes it).

memedumpster
"X color history month" exists to show who is still racist and who is not. It works incredibly well.

IrishWhiskey
Are you seriously trying to pretend that there's no difference between acknowledging race, and believing in racial superiority? Because that's the only way you can justify both your responses, pretending there's no difference between acknowledging the impact of race on society, and promoting racial inequality.

zerdzer
of course there is a difference between acknowledging race and believing in racial superiority. those are two different racist things, one is stupid but well intentioned, and one is also stupid and not so well intentioned.

what good does acknowledging race do anybody? "people with MY SKIN COLOR did amazing things in the past before i was born!"? "it's time to be proud to have this color of skin now!"? surely you can see how this is ridiculous

prang
Racism is real, and if you don't acknowledge the many roles that race plays in peoples' lives, then you can't have any sort of conversation about it. That's a problem. The reason they have "x color history month" is because if they didn't then that shit would not be taught in so many schools. After all, why teach about the history of black people in America when all of your students are mostly white? Oh yeah, because black people have been instrumental in making the United States the country it is today and if you don't know the history of black people then you'll be dumbfounded as to why they seem so gosh darn angry at white people all the time!

Privilege is not about keeping score unless you're playing in the oppression olympics. Privilege is about a lack of understanding of other peoples' problems, so you can correct for it by trying to understand other peoples' problems and adjusting your behavior. Sad that there's no White History Month? Well, black people had to put up with that until 1976. There are people alive today who are older than Black History Month. Every month before that has been White History Month, told from the point of view of the white colonists who came to North America, took slaves from Africa, stole land and then committed genocide on the natives, because they thought they were superior to these other humans. These aren't attacks against The White Race, it's just history, a history that would be told perhaps more accurately if minority voices had more of a chance to be heard in mainstream culture. We have to be able to talk about this stuff because it wasn't actually all that long ago and the effects of it are still being felt.

IrishWhiskey
The definitions you gave all involved racial discrimination or superiority, not just acknowledgement, unless you pretend that the inherited differences they are talking about means social responses to race rather than personal characteristics. So no, Martin Luther King was not racist for saying that blacks and white were equal and should live in harmony, because he acknowledged that race exists. Your definition is only used by idiots, racists, and racist idiots.

What good does acknowledging race do? It's pretty essential to combating racism. But then I understand that offends racists and people who benefit from being privileged and don't like being reminded that social inequality exists. Which as a handicapped black dwarf lesbian, doesn't include you, as you've told us.

zerdzer
"What good does acknowledging race do? It's pretty essential to combating racism."

and here i was thinking that if everybody saw each other as human beings and nothing more or less, racism would be over. damn, back to the drawing board

IrishWhiskey
I didn't realize that was how it works. You tell people not to mention race, and racism ends everywhere. It's learned a lot today.

zerdzer
apparently i'm not the only one who thinks what i do

http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=82641

IrishWhiskey
There is a slight difference in your positions. He thinks it's ridiculous to relegate black history to a single month. He thinks that people shouldn't define each other in terms of race. This is not quite the same as not talking about racism ever, so as not to upset racists and privileged people. I don't think taking a sound-bite out of context means you can say Morgan Freeman would call MLK a racist.

zerdzer
"This is not quite the same as not talking about racism ever, so as not to upset racists and privileged people."

when did i ever say we should not talk about racism? i said we should not talk about race. MLK talked about racism, not race. :/

prang
HOLY FUCK

misterbuns
zerdzer:

your obsession with the semantics of racism shows that you don't understand why the concept of racism is being discussed. Racism is a dialect of inequality and when people are discussing racism it's actually shorthand for discussing how given, as MLK said, every man is created equal, which you concede, these inequalities exist: which they certainly do.

If you admitted that your experience as a human has been colored by advantages that you never earned (much like the colored people you are disparaging didn't 'earn' the achievements of their grand parents' generation of civil rights) and conceded your ignorance of the struggles much of the world endures you would be closer to letting go of this adolescent frustration about semantics and begin to understand how these terms are used to describe and resist inequalities that no one deserves.

unless you a troll.

if so 9/10 would lol again.

kingarthur
I thought the POE Facebook discussions were getting bent, but at least I'm fairly sure who zerdzer is now since this same thing keeps happening there.

Binro the Heretic
That poor kid is ruined.
Blue
The color of your skin absolutely does matter, and you absolutely should pay attention to the color of other people's skin when they start telling you what it's like to be black.

Also, Morgan Freeman is rich and famous. If people stopped talking about racism, his race related problems really would be over.

Not so much for the less fortunate, though.
TheOtherCapnS
How does he manage to be so smug and so angry at the same time?
William Topaz McGonagall
There is an idea of a Patrick Bateman; some kind of abstraction. But there is no real me: only an entity, something illusory. And though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable... I simply am not there.
M-DEEM
Hey all you lonely fellers out there who don't think you'll ever find love. Take heart! Keep in mind that there is a woman on this planet that allowed this guy to thrust to completion inside of her at least once! No shit! Now buck up and get back out there and you'll do great!
TheOtherCapnS
See, I was just watching this under the assumption that that was his weed dealer.

Mother_Puncher
It looks like he combs his hair with masonry trowel.
Senator_Unger
Ah, class is the only thing that matters anyway.
memedumpster
HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY POETV!

(this video seemed most appropriate for the holiday wishes)
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