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Tags:batman, Superman, hamfisted, BVS:DOJ
Submitted:Albuquerque Halsey
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Comment count is 52
John Holmes Motherfucker
Oh good! They've decided to make this one dark and gritty for a change!
Caminante Nocturno
Hey, that's Ben Affleck!

Ben Affleck's in this movie.
He's going to be awesome in this. Can't go wrong with a guy who has a separate Wikipedia page just for his awards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_re ceived_by_Ben_Affleck

I really dig Affleck too. I don't understand all the hate the guy gets.

Not sure about this movie, though.

I haven't looked, but I'm guessing at least 40% of that list is shit like the "Blockbuster Choice Awards" and "MTV Movie Awards"

infinite zest
He was in some shit following Wood Will Hunting, like Armageddon, Gigli, Reindeer Games, Bounce, etc. but also pretty awesome in Paycheck, and speaking of paychecks, he was able to make a movie like Argo with them, which is one of my favorite movies. So he's good in my book.

That guy
Well, he's also a fucking asshole, but the kind of fucking asshole that most of this site likes.

He has TWO Oscars!!!!

That guy
So he has to be good.

How many Oscar wins you got, Orson?

yeah ben affleck is the least of the problems with this grimdark mess

By "grim dark" I guess you mean its too scary for you. Go watch Sesame Street you weenie.

infinite zest
Remember when everyone hated Leonardo DiCaprio and now everybody loves him? I dunno this looks good. I like to see Superman deconstructed, like in the excellent All Star Superman. So I have hopes for it capturing Frank Miller's vision (even though it's not based directly on Dark Knight Returns it shares similarities) the way Zach Snyder captured Watchmen. Oh and it's directed by Snyder, I just found out. Surprise!

Any evidence for Affleck being a real-life asshole? I don't really keep up with celebrity goings-on but the last person I thought was a total dick was Jonah Hill, for punching a paparazzi and calling him a "fucking faggot", getting criticized for a day about it until he goes on some talk show and cries and says "some of his best friends are gay and he was angry" and he's off the hook the next day. By that logic Michael Richards should be president of the NAACP. As far as I know Affleck's been pretty cool, even though I assume his real-life persona's pretty close to his Good Will Hunting persona and I probably wouldn't want to get more than a few drinks with him at any given time.

DC is using "grimdark" here the same way porn uses tits in place of plot.

Seriously, this is a setup that should've been done after a Superman movie and Batman movie that were designed to set up a larger DCU in movie theaters. It also runs counter to how Batman & Superman are supposed to be different and operate on different levels as characters. It just chucks them and everyone else into this "wow, the world sucks, let's break necks and fight each other because that's what gritty realism is all about."

Affleck isn't going to be what sinks this movie; a script that wants to lead up to a Justice League movie without setting the stage properly for one will be. Everyone said "stop complaining about Man of Steel until you see it" and what we got was a movie that wanted to have spectacle yet had no idea what made Superman an interesting character.

Two Jar Slave
Oh, give me a break.
They're not giving you a break, they're giving you a fantastic film. What beef do you have with this awesomeness? Would you rather watch some art house shit instead?

Two Jar Slave
The "who would win" scenario in comics always reeked of, at best, a fun but shallow gimmick, and at worst a tight deadline. Now we're at the point where that embarrassing gimmick is being funded as a top-notch adventure film concept, and it's being helmed by a man who apparently thinks a bon mot consists of, "Tell me. Do you bleed? ...You will!"

You deserve better than that, Cena.

To answer your not-at-all-baiting question, yes, I would rather watch a good 'art house' film (whatever that is), but not because I prefer snooty visual metaphors over an adventure movie, or a superhero movie. I recently rewatched Days of Future Past and still liked it the second time because it has humour, exciting stakes, likeable characters who I want to see succeed, and a worthy villain played by a smarmy actor. It had a tone of adventure, and I love a good adventure movie. So what's my problem with this trailer? It looks hamfisted, joyless, and dumb. If I saw a trailer for an arthouse movie that looked hamfisted, joyless, and dumb, I'd have the same reaction.

The last movie had a shot of Superman drowning in a pile of skulls. An actual pile of skulls! (They move it between shots.) It had pointless 9/11 references and zero dramatic stakes. Then their big zinger was, "I think he's kinda hot!" Or I guess, "Welcome to the Planet, Mr. Kent!" Take your pick. People say Fast & Furious movies come off like they're written by a five-year-old, but at least a five-year-old is excited about what's going on in his imagination. Zack Snyder's movies usually come off like they're written by a spreadsheet.

Something can be forgiven for being dumb but exciting, or smart but slow. This doesn't look like it has a Robin's chance at either.

OMFG robo-voice batman. Jesus..this is like everything shitty I could have possibly hoped for in this trailer. It's like some unintentionally meta-humor comment on taking these characters and cranking up the edge-factor to 11.

Holy shit I am cracking up
He's supposed to be Robosuit Batman in this story. I think it looks good.

oh ok. 5 stars

infinite zest
So it's kind of Dark Knight Returns? That's cool.

So, Batman is a cyborg in this one, right?

infinite zest
In Frank Miller's version, he gets an exosuit when fighting superman, but he's not a cyborg. The only cyborg batmans were created by Brainiac with predictably cyborgy results. Difference is Wayne's nearing 60 in the comic and it shows, whereas Ban Affleck, although 42, can still play a 20-something.

I prefer robo-voice batman over Christian Bale's bat-voice, hands down.

Maggot Brain
Hamfisted? Just the fist?
Five stars for the epileptic seizure that WB is having with its properties.
Why not just have two CGI arms of a child grasping them both by the legs in every shot?
Oscar Wildcat
From your lips to God's ear.

John Holmes Motherfucker
These trailers are pretty misleading. I'm still mad that there wasn't more fishing in "MAN OF STEEL".
Albuquerque Halsey
Uh. . .what?

John Holmes Motherfucker

I notice that this is not "Batman vs. Superman", it's "Batman v. Superman", like a court case. Presumably they're getting divorced.

This really stands an incredible chance of sucking, unless they screw up the one of the two that you don't like, in which case you might be happy with it. When done right, Superman is the man with the abilities of a god who genuinely doesn't see himself above anyone else, and hopes to inspire people to be their best selves. When done right, Batman is the man who dedicates himself to making sure that people don't suffer needlessly. A writer has to be either a genius or an idiot to put together scenarios where they can't get along.
... and in case you're wondering, Frank Miller is an idiot. Re-read "The Dark Knight Returns" and tell me the whole story isn't built around the notion that pretty much everyone except Batman is garbage. Yeah you've sure fleshed out all your non-Batman cast, Frank.

That guy
It's Frank Miller's Richard III.

infinite zest
I might be in the minority here, but I really really liked Watchmen on screen. It wasn't perfect, but you could tell that Snyder wasn't phoning it in. It was actually the first DC movie that I really liked. Batman Begins was.. pretty good.. and Dark Knight was good but only because it wasn't a Batman movie. And when it was a Batman movie, it fell pretty flat. Watchmen basically felt like a kid trying to impress his dad, and in certain ways I liked it more than the source material. So I'm cautiously optimistic.

Having Dr. Manhattan apparently go bonkers, rather than introducing an alien menace, was very much an improvement over the original. The root of the problem with world politics was that Dr. Manhattan was playing for the US and against everyone else, so having Dr. Manhattan turn against the US and become a common threat very neatly removed the core problem. Whereas introducing a Monster From Beyond was likely to get everyone pointing fingers at one another -- Pakistan would claim it was an Indian plot, India would claim it was the Pakistanis, Sunnis would blame Shiites, dogs would blame cats, and so on. We simply aren't rational enough as a species to say "let's set aside our differences to fight the alien space vaginas".

“There was Mothman and The Silhouette and The Comedian and there was me, all of us choosing to dress up in gaudy opera costumes and express the notion of good and evil in simple childish terms, while over in Europe they were turning human beings into soap and lampshades."

Watchmen goes to great lengths to show us that the non-Dr. Manhattan superheroes are worse than useless. I've always thought that part of the point of Watchmen is that Ozy's plan is completely absurd. It's an unnecessary and insane act of wanton murder that Dan and Laurie go along with because they're damaged people living out similar kinds of fantasies. Making it more of a realistic plan and an actual solution to the cold war weakens the underlying "The only sort of person that would actually do this is sad, pathetic, and crazy" theme running through the book.

Sexy Duck Cop
I've never read or seen Richard III, but last night I had a dream where I did. And in it, Richard III would poke poor people in the forehead, blow gum bubbles in people's faces, and troll soldiers fighting in literally trenches.

Thank you for reminding me of my hilarious dream, That Guy.

infinite zest
Yeah. That's why I'm excited. That ending definitely improved on the original. Of course plenty of people whined about the squid monster, but I always thought it was dumb, like DC said "we're about comics!" "more action" and Moore reluctantly agreed, turning the final act into an action/disaster comic. To be completely fair, I saw Watchmen in theatres and didn't really like it at first because of how much was cut out, but when I discovered the "ultimate cut" I was more than appeased, even if it's a fancut with Mariner's Return sort of awkwardly placed around it. When Snyder really puts his mind towards something, it works. I had low expectations for 300 from the beginning, because Miller's source material was beautiful, bloody crap, but I'm interested to see where he goes with this.

infinite zest
Weird. I've been having strange dreams about exams on books that I've either never read or can't remember a lot recently too. A long time ago I saw this crazy cyberpunk version of Richard III down at a Shakespeare festival in southern Oregon as part of a field trip, and it was so cool looking that I didn't pay attention to the plot. He had a fucking lazer eye and a sword for his left hand. THAT'S how you do Shakespeare.

"I've always thought that part of the point of Watchmen is that Ozy's plan is completely absurd."

He's not a Republic serial villain.

I do see your point, but I also get the feeling that Moore gets the best of both worlds in "The Watchmen": anything he does that people like is considered genius, anything he does that people find flaws with is just him deconstructing comics and therefore still genius. I think we ought to allow for the possibility that Alan Moore is a bright guy with good ideas, and he hits it out of the park pretty often, but the flaws in his work are there too. The problem with Ozy's plan ostensibly wasn't that it was Wile E. Coyote crazy convoluted, but that there is always somebody somewhere who knows the truth and the truth will get out somehow.

Bort: You raise a good point about Moore getting to have his cake and eat it too. However, the reason I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on the the plan is in some of the other background material.

The comic is very careful to establish Nixon in the bunker, looking at simulations of the west coast being wiped out, and being horrified into silence. When someone asks him what they're going to do his reply is "Sit and wait". In other words, America is not making the first move, and Nixon is unlikely to do anything rash. As for the Soviet side, MAD still applies, they've just had their strategic position immeasurably improved. It's also worth noting that the crisis everyone is reacting to is the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, which turned out not to presage a Soviet first strike. Then we have Ozymandias; how is he predicting the future? By watching 12 TVs at once and noting more skin in perfume commercials as a sign of impending doom.

There's the Black Freighter, an allegorical story of a man obsessed by a threat to his home, going to extreme lengths to try and prevent it, only to become a savage murderer as the threat proved to be a phantom. The story ends with the main character swimming out towards the Black Freighter. Later, Ozymandias says "I dream about swimming towards a hideous.. no. Never mind. It isn't significant". I think that's more than a bit of a suggestion that we're supposed to identify Ozymandias with the main character of the Black Freighter.

It all leads me to think that whatever the characters may believe or say, Ozymandias plan did not save the world. The world didn't actually need saving. In that vein, murdering millions with a giant vagina-squid, strikes me as more to be underlining and highlighting how crazy the plan is, and how their lives as superheroes primed them to shrug and accept it than an example of a storytelling misstep.

Thinking about it more, even accepting this argument, you can still argue it is a mistake though; since many people didn't think "Killer teleporting vagina squid" was deranged enough to be a clue that Ozymandias was a lunatic. So if his intent was to highlight the absurdity of Ozy's plan, he didn't go far enough. See also: Rorschach.

Gw/H: You have sound arguments, and I think we're stuck at the point of conflicting opinions that are supportable within the work we're discussing (qf Talmudic scholars arguing about TV dinners). There's that interview with Ozymandias where he discusses how the Soviet Union was invaded once, and they'll prevent it ever happening again by any means necessary, and Dr. Manhattan is pushing them towards that point again. Part of Ozy's plan is to send Dr. Manhattan away from earth, so that much is in keeping with that interview and is a smart move. The vagina monster, if it is intended to be a crazy bad idea, is following on the heels of a good idea, and it does seem to temporarily work as intended, so I feel like Moore meant it to be a success (if only on a limited basis).

The Ozymandias / Black Freighter thing might speak to Ozy's lucidity: he's aware that he's going to cause all this death over what might well never come to pass.

Oscar Wildcat
Hey! You got your deus ex machina all up in my vagina dentata....

infinite zest
(oops.. Mariner's Return was some old portrait I found once, which was actually an ad for Old Style Beer. Black Frighter my bad.)

If Moore intended for Ozymandians' plan to save the world, he would have shown the world being saved by it. Not showing that means he wants you to decide.

As for the story getting out, the movie ends with a newspaper writer reaching for Rorschach's journal, so "there is always somebody somewhere who knows the truth and the truth will get out somehow" seems to imply you don't actually remember enough of what happened.

This trailer does not give me hope that this movie will be good, especially with that last line. That last line sounds like it was written by a 15 year old with a shit ton of skulls on his Trapper Keeper.

I'll probably still end up seeing this, but not on opening day.
I'm on the fence about this.

The whole "No Jokes" shtick is going to wear thin pretty damn quick.
They really ought to consider putting out a movie that viewers might enjoy, rather than try so very hard to pretend comics are for adults.

I say this as an adult who enjoys comics, but without any illusions that I am reading high-brow literature.

A movie starring Ben Affleck where no jokes are allowed?

It's Gigli all over again!
Binro the Heretic
I will gladly go and see Ben Affleck Batman.

Now, when do I get my Swamp Thing reboot?




I wrote a soundtrack!
I can't WAIT to see this

on Netflix sometime after I've run out of episodes of AKA JESSICA JONES and IRON FIST.
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