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Comment count is 31
Spit Spingola - 2015-09-09

I don't think there are any non-dutch angle shots in Battlefield Earth.

That guy - 2015-09-10

as evidenced by our trusty tags

Old_Zircon - 2015-09-10

That's why it's better than Citizen Kane.

yogarfield - 2015-09-10

No, it's better than Citizen Kane because of THE FRIENDLY BARTENDER!!

duck&cover - 2015-09-09

Does anyone have a favorite angle? 15 degrees, 30 degrees? Dutch left or Dutch right?

jangbones - 2015-09-09

0 degrees dead center

I prefer artful camera moves that do not draw a lot attention to themselves, and it is a rare filmmaker that can dutch with restraint

(sorry...my senior essay for film school was called "The Empty Eye", a lengthy screed against the excesses of visual direction and cinematography in the late 80s and early 90s)

That guy - 2015-09-09

word, jangbones

It totally depends on genre and style. But there's a lot of style over subtance camera/edit work in film. But in 2015, I think steadicam and lens flare/splash are much more overdone than canting the camera.

Sometimes the style is the substance, etc etc but I'd call that a tough road to hoe- jazzing around in the arts is easy to fail at, and hard to succeed. However, I have more of a minimalist's bent in general, so feel free to kick me in the nuts for that.

Most of these examples are very good, though.

That guy - 2015-09-09

Also writing a lengthy screed-thesis in rebellion against camera-edit fuckery as a young filmmaker is fully bad-ass.

In my experience, most film schoolers are way more 'flavor of the minute', however they may pose at being otherwise. And those flavors for the last few decades are anything but "well-behaved camera unless merited".

Are you in LA? Let us beer.

15th - 2015-09-09

I'm with you guys completely. I think directors could shoot with a bit more restraint these days. I'm a big fan of well composed static shots, it really makes any camera movement much more meaningful. I fucking can't stand the overuse of sliders and shallow depth of field. Also, color grading that "tells a story." There's a lot of stuff I don't like.

jangbones - 2015-09-09

I am in the filmmaking hotspot of Charlotte NC

(note; not actually a filmmaking hotspot)

jangbones - 2015-09-09

just want to note that a lot of filmmakers nowadays can do it right, and using visual gimmicks as a substitute for talent is a lot less tolerated now than it was

but the eighties were a brutal time for visual entertainment, and a large percentage of the films of that era are unwatchable because of the ridiculous cinematography, editing, and color correction

CGI has taken on that role for the past decade but I think its never gotten as bad

baleen - 2015-09-09

"I'm with you guys completely. I think directors could shoot with a bit more restraint these days. I'm a big fan of well composed static shots, it really makes any camera movement much more meaningful. I fucking can't stand the overuse of sliders and shallow depth of field. Also, color grading that "tells a story." There's a lot of stuff I don't like."

I probably could have said the same thing.
I like directors like Bela Tarr and Tarkovsky for these reasons.
I like when films slow my heart rate. Feels more like the experience of reading a very good novel.

15th - 2015-09-09

I like Tarkovsky. I've never heard of Bela Tarr, what should I watch first?

Any of you peckers in Denver? Let's make a film, I have a camera and around 0, we'll have to keep it under two hours.

baleen - 2015-09-10

Werkmeister Harmonies.

That guy - 2015-09-10

hah 15th, nice
don't let budget stop you
find some good stage actors in your area if you can, and mix with amateurs basically playing themselves

I've d/w/p or w/p about 50 mins worth of short films for under K total, but they're heavy on character & dialogue out of necessity because of those budgets; also, they were inexpensive because of the participation of a lot of awesome people who gave their time. I guess you'd call them mumblecore for lack of a better term, but I wasn't trying to imitate mumblecore. I never had more than 3/4 ton of lighting gear, or time to shoot to many setups and gimmicky shots anyway. One day.....

They're all very, very modest- really just exercises in filmmaking and capturing an unusual tone, so I've never put them in the hopper- that and there's nothing really poetv about them. Most of the short films that come through are legitimately good stuff- either that or deliciously horrible.

Well, I also didn't put them in the hopper because I don't want to dox myself since I say shit on here just to be an asshole about 1/3 of the time; also, typed irony tends to get misinterpreted.

Having read what you guys said, for recent movies, maybe check out Kelly Reichardt. (I have not seen Night Moves. But I'd recommend Old Joy and Wendy & Lucy). I think Inside Llewyn Davis might also fit, and some other Coen bros.- Short Term 12- Imitation Game and Blue Ruin have fairly well-behaved camera. Fruitvale Station too, you just have to ignore the writing to a degree, it's a little hamfisted.
Older movies have a ton of well-behaved camera, of course.
Noir would be the perfect example of dutch angles yet well-behaved camera.

Dutch angles can be great when used correctly. I've used them only in POV shots with a good motivation, but that could just be a function of having a tiny crew and no time. : /
Obviously they're very nice for noir, horror, or any number of other reasons.

Over on Vimeo, I'd recommend going to the "35 MM - A GROUP FOR CINEPHILES" group. From there go to the "28 ALBUMS" on the lower right of the top page. From there, go to page 2 which should have the album called "Video Essays".

The following are all in that channel/album, but they have multiple good video essays each:
Tony Zhou / Every Frame a Painting. (also on youtube)
Fandor Keyframe (which is the group that made this video)
David Bordwell
Press Play Video Blog
Steven Benedict
Max Tohline
Steven Santos
Raccord (The Directors Series) is not bad, too.

15th - 2015-09-10

That guy,

Yeah, it's been a bit of a bummer, I've been chumming the waters on Craiglist for actors/collaborators. Really discouraging so far. I'd love to see anything you shot, if possible. "I could love anyone who makes a film." Someone said that, or something like it.

I've only tried shooting one story, it was a cluster fuck. It was all Craigslist actors playing into themselves, writing as I went. 0 = 22 minutes of unwatchable amateurism. I loved it so much. I thought it would sweep Sundance.

I liked Old Joy.

I've noticed you upvote a lot of film stuff I try to pass through the hopper, so I know you're way cool. I'll check out some of your recommendations.

I'm not a camera nazi if something interesting is going on. The Idiots is one of my favorites. But, that's not usually the case.

Who's your favorite director? Not just That Guy, but anyone. I like talking about this stuff...

That guy - 2015-09-10

hmm... Do you have a tertiary email account that you don't mind putting up here? I don't have one.
Or some other idea?
For now I guess I'll just reply as briefly as possible. I already kinda went infinitezest.blogspot.poetv on that last one.

Wild guess: is your main problem that in Denver you can only find actors who can do camp, and can't do more real or natural?
What are the odds you could drag friends into making little 5 minute shorts, like a weekend or one-day shoot?

I'm bad at naming favorite or top 5 anything. I could probably name 30 filmmakers without having any idea of rank order. I did a class presentation on Lumet's Network - edits, camera angles, composition etc. The talk was about what you can do with middle-of-the-road film language, and just taking those basic ingredients and getting it right. Lumet's one of my 30 for sure.

Old_Zircon - 2015-09-10

My favorite cinematographers are Pasolini and Donald G Jackson.

15th - 2015-09-10

No, I just put up a generic post in hopes of finding like minded people to collaborate with. Very few actors responded, a lot of "writers." My friends can act better than the few reels I received. I'll just work with what I have. Just have to get off my ass.

[email protected] - that should work.

I visited a buddy a few years ago while he was in film school. His class screened Network. I love that movie.

Thanks baleen and Zircon, I'll look into it/them.

yogarfield - 2015-09-10


seconding werckmeister harmonies.

then stretch your legs and dive into all seven hours of satantango.

the turin horse is amazing as well.

That guy - 2015-09-10

ok I'll send you an email

15th - 2015-09-11

Werkmeister Harmonies is on the way, it was kind of a bitch to find, I'll let you fellas know when I watch it!

That guy - 2015-09-09

I just saw this the other day.

betabox - 2015-09-09

Were you in Holland?

That guy - 2015-09-09

haha yes. It's HUGE there.

baleen - 2015-09-09

See a cute one?

That guy - 2015-09-10

They were all a cute.

Binro the Heretic - 2015-09-09

I thought a "Dutch Angle" was something you had to pay the hooker extra for?

That guy - 2015-09-10

You're paying extra based on the roll axis?

Old_Zircon - 2015-09-10

Hey, I used to own that same sofa at 1:38!

Scattersane - 2015-09-10

I made the mistake of watching this while eating.

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