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Desc:A point to consider.
Category:Arts, Educational
Tags:bad movies, George Lucas, Patton Oswalt, The Phantom Menace, Seth Meyers
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Comment count is 54
infinite zest - 2016-01-07
All I can think about is how his foot's going to fall asleep the way he's sitting.
Waugh - 2016-01-07
banal bourgeois nerd
Sexy Duck Cop - 2016-01-07
I just can't quit you waugh

that was a reference to the 2005 Drama/Romance movie brokeback mountain (run time 2hr 14mn)

its about cowboys that fuck rattlesnakes in the mouth and promise not to tell

Two Jar Slave - 2016-01-07
Waugh's right, though ("...and other wacky tales!"). This sexless panderer now talks and dresses like a millionaire. I think his second layer (of four!) might be a vest?

I don't get the Oswalt appeal at all, besides his great name, but it doesn't look like he's going anywhere so I'll just get used to it. Maybe in four years he'll do an understated dramatic flick and I'll be like, "Wow! Who knew?!"

Waugh - 2016-01-07
duck man you're thinking of the standalone expansion to jerkcity, jerkcity: cock vegas

Waugh - 2016-01-07
granted if the point he's trying to make is that obsessing over criticism is just more shallow consumerism then that's fair but gurts always put it better

Two Jar Slave - 2016-01-07
It isn't.

infinite zest - 2016-01-08
Hard to think of too many comedians this sort of thing didn't happen to though, when they go on shows. That includes my favorite, Bill Hicks, and his take on Basic Instinct because it wasn't the movie he wanted to see (which would've been 2 hours of Sharon stone scissoring some chick).

I feel like comedians have to be careful with what they say because their humor is calculated, so it's easy to accidentally say something where six months later it's like "you said that on the Carson Show!" So, they talk about Bullshit to kill a couple minutes.

Thoughts, Waugh?

That guy - 2016-01-08
Waugh is talking now.

Sell out.

infinite zest - 2016-01-08
He's busy writing the Jerkcity show movie I think. You have to talk a little about what you do.

fedex - 2016-01-08
so Waugh is Tristan A. Farnon?

Dude...what happened? you should have made the Leisuretown movie man, you blew it.

Waugh - 2016-01-08
i was in a good mood yesterday that doesn't mean i'm not here to kill you anymore

Two Jar Slave - 2016-01-08
I liked something-real-to-say-edition Waugh. You're still free to kill us all, if you have to, but don't let it stop you from having more good days.

Waugh - 2016-01-08
what the fuck is 'leisuretown'?

fedex - 2016-01-08

you.....would love it

Waugh - 2016-01-08
we don't take advice from lying sacks of shit

That guy - 2016-01-08
Chapter III

Once Waugh got married and had a kid, he may as well have sold his guitar; but he held on to it for the rest of his life, never playing it once.

Waugh - 2016-01-08
jesus christ are you boring assholes unfunny

glasseye - 2016-01-08
And yet you keep coming back for more.

You can't quit us either.

fedex - 2016-01-08
"we don't take advice from lying sacks of shit"

is that the Royal we?

or the schizophrenic we?

That guy - 2016-01-09
you used to be punk as fuck, man

Waugh - 2016-01-10

StanleyPain - 2016-01-07
I hate the whole "you didn't make a movie so you can't be a critic of them" nonsense argument. Without criticism, art would be nowhere. Artists are under no obligation to actually give a shit or pay attention to critics, but that critics exist is part of art, period. Yes, criticism can go overboard and move into an area where it goes beyond criticism and just personal spite, but in general you are totally welcome to shit all over someone's hard work that they decide to show to the public for the purposes of deconstruction and there's no shame in making a career out of that, either.

I remember reading an interview with Ross Hagen (the producer/writer/actor who made a bunch of cheesy motorcycle gang exploitation movies in the 60s/70s) where he pulled this same shit about MST3k doing Sidehackers and how it was wrong because people worked so hard on their little twisted rape-revenge film so therefore they are immune from being made fun of or whatever. Fuck that.
StanleyPain - 2016-01-07
(also note the irony of saying this when you literally are part of the new writing team and cast of the new MST3k.)

Two Jar Slave - 2016-01-07
I agree with your point, but I'm not sure Oswalt was pulling the "if you're so smart why don't YOU make a movie" card. I'm honestly not sure what his dumb point was supposed to be, except that he is wise.

There is a point to be made that endlessly criticizing others can distract a person from making their own stuff, and an overdeveloped critical sense can become a creative straightjacket. If that was Oswalt's point, I don't know what George Lucas's mansion, or the producer's children's college savings, had to do with it.

SolRo - 2016-01-07
I think the point is that obsessing over a bad movie is a waste of your life.

Obsessing over anything bad in your life is unhealthy, just need to move on and start seeing new franchises

EvilHomer - 2016-01-08
Yes, it was certainly a waste of Patton's life. It's not like he's a millionaire now, thanks in a large part to his I'm-a-nerd-obsessing-over-nerdy-things shtick.

Maybe he's just worried because social media is creating too much competition in his chosen field of commentary?

EvilHomer - 2016-01-08
That's not to say he's wrong, though! Instead of wasting daylight complaining about how unsatisfying the movies which Hollywood shovels at you are, perhaps you should spend your precious time working in a factory instead. Also keep watching movies.

SolRo - 2016-01-08
and playing video games constantly isn't a waste of your life because a handful of teenagers win a lot of money in a MOBA tournament once or twice in their lives.

EvilHomer - 2016-01-08
"Isn't" a waste? No, it is; for sufficiently condescending values of the word "waste", at any rate.

My point is, if a MOBA champion went on a talk show - a talk show which is interested in him precisely because he is a MOBA champion - and complained about how playing video games was such a waste of his time, a more cynical observer than I might point out that said MOBA champion was being a big fat hypocrite. *From a generalized perspective* his observations might be sound, but his is not a generalized perspective; he has a very unique perspective, one which directly contradicts his statements regarding video games.

Which brings me to the second point, which is that Patton/ your hypothetical MOBA Champion is not actually speaking to a talk show host, nor is he speaking to himself. He is speaking to the audience - WE are the people he intends to instruct here. When Patton Oswalt says "Complaining about movies was a waste of my time", he does not actually mean that complaining about movies was a waste of his time (again, we have established that complaining about movies was the BEST thing he will ever do in his life, and Mr Oswalt himself surely knows this). Rather, he means to say "you, the audience, should examine your lives, feel shame, and stop complaining about movies".

Which, again, is a fair point - for a sufficiently condescending value of the word "waste", complaining about movies is definitely a waste of your time. I can happily oncede Mr Oswalt's argument there! However, this leads to a number of other problem, such as:

1. as SP accurately points out, criticism is important in art, and if you care a lot about movies (as many geeky people do), then why NOT participate in the art-processm through criticism?
2. if the masses shouldn't be criticizing pop culture, then in Patton's opinion, who SHOULD be spending time doing this?
3. if criticizing pop culture is "a waste" of your time, then what will in fact constitute proper use of your time? (3.1: who determines the value of your time?)
4. assuming for a minute that a) movies suck and b) you have made the informed decision not to complain, then do you really "need to move on and start seeing new franchises" (as you put it)? Wouldn't a more sensible action be to, I don't know, stop consuming Hollywood's godawful media products entirely? You don't HAVE to like it, and you don't HAVE to watch it, either - indeed, once you have decided that bitching about movies is beneath you (as Patton claims to have done), then forswearing film and television entirely seems like the natural progression from there.

Adham Nu'man - 2016-01-08
If you pay to go see a shit movie you kind of have the financial obligation to make fun of it afterwards with your friends and dissect it and make jokes about how shitty it was. It's the only way to make good on your purchase.

I had definitely more fun mocking Prometheus than I did watching it.

fedex - 2016-01-07
I worked on Phantom Menace at ILM as a "digital artist" and everything he says is pretty spot on.
EvilHomer - 2016-01-08
Did you get to meet JarJar?! How is he in person?

TeenerTot - 2016-01-08
No shit! You know Tim B.? I used to work at TM toys with him!

fedex - 2016-01-08
Here's my little story about Jar Jar.

I had been on the show for a few weeks, and dailies were always in C Theatre, the largest theatre because it was a huge show, the first show (@ILM or anywhere) to ever have 2000+ digital shots. They were very proud of that fact, and kept trumpeting it about, until eventually they decided to "touch" every single shot in the movie digitally just so they could say they had.

But I digress..

George was usually in dailies, he would sit in the middle, Knoll and the Squires and the other supes would sit next to him and the producers, and the pecking order spread out radially from there. This meant me and most of the other grunts were way up at the back. We weren't there to speak (unless spoken to) and sure were not there to acknowledge George in any way. In fact when you started working there, you got a long speech about how to treat George; basically, treat him like you are invisible. You can look at George, maybe open the door for him, but never ever speak to George, or god forbid, touch him or anything like that. This was ridiculous in light of the fact that after work we would go to the Mall and there would be George at Orange Julius, buying a drink for his kid or something and pretending he was just a normal guy. That was also just kind of Marin at the time...

But I digress...

Anyway, dailies was long and boring, so sometimes people would add some humor, like a funny temp voice on a shot or something like that.

An important thing to understand about CGI creatures and animation in general, is that they record the final voice tracks first, then we animators would animate to the voice track.
Of course, directors and producers are constantly throwing spanners in that mix by changing the dialogue in the script (gasp), firing the voice actor and hiring a new one (gasp!), or usually, both (double-gasp!), usually after hero animation has already started.

So this means that animators often have temp voice tracks, of someone (usually the editor or similar) reading the lines as a stand-in until the actual actor re-records them. That way the animator has at least something to star with, and can block out the general body animation and even some facial/dialogue, and keep the shot moving forward until the new dialogue arrives.

One day, we had dailies with George, and about halfway through there was a new JarJar shot up on screen. Until now we had temp track for Jar Jar, but THIS shot had some crazy caribbean jibber-jabber dialogue that sounded like a Jamaican Stepin'Fetchit on helium.

So everybody laughed, it was funny, ridiculous, a welcome break from the routine, but George wasn't laughing, and then it suddenly got real quiet. Then the word began to be whispered around, that's the voice, that is going to be Jar-Jar's real voice....

That was the day I finally conceded that in spite of all our awesome work, the film was regardless going to be a huge, steaming pile of shit.
fedex - 2016-01-08
sorry, that was meant to be an answer to Evil Homer

EvilHomer - 2016-01-08
That's awesome, thanks!

Stars are yours.

Spaceman Africa - 2016-01-08
Jar Jar was the key to all of this

Sexy Duck Cop - 2016-01-08
Again, it's like poetry, it rhymes.

Two Jar Slave - 2016-01-08
That was great, especially the parts about having to work for a sheltered billionaire. It makes my skin crawl that someone could force people he doesn't even know exist to treat him like literal royalty, and for what? Helming a popular kids' movie back in the 70s. Our hero.

gmol - 2016-01-08
stars for fedex

Rosebeekee - 2016-01-08
Isn't the "hierarchy" and "don't speak unless spoken to" atmosphere standard for film sets, or have I just been working with a bunch of pretentious Movie of the Week people?

Oscar Wildcat - 2016-01-08
Beautiful story, Fed. Encapsulates everything that is wrong in the top down, winner take all approach to organizing a project. This is hardly limited to the movie industry: it's pretty much how most large companies run and it's why almost all large companies have given up doing R&D and now just buy it from small firms that aren't organized in such a stifling form.

tesla_weapon - 2016-01-08
dude, nobody who has money or power listens to experts

fedex - 2016-01-08
Rose, yes that's true, but this wasn't on set, it was at work, at the ILM offices in Marin County. We would see him almost every day so it got to be a bit surreal, as though he didn't want to be reminded that hundreds of actual, living, breathing, people were working night and day there to fulfill his ridiculous vision.

fedex - 2016-01-08
Also, I didn't stick around for Attack of the Clones, but word had it that by then George had started bringing his 10-year old kid into dailies and let him make comments about all sorts of things, from VFX to story to action, etc. ACTIONABLE comments....

I can't even begin to imagine how fun that must have been for all the supes and artists.

BHWW - 2016-01-08
The best Lucas related-read I've had since I read this whole article about LucasArts:

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/04/04/fall -of-the-empire-how-inner-turmoil-brought-down-a-legendary-studio.a spx?PostPageIndex=2


"When Fracture was revealed to the public, its protagonist was a character named Mason Briggs. By the time the game launched, his name was changed to Jet Brody. A person who helped give this gun-toting rebel his original name recalls going through weeks of naming conventions. “Literally, whole teams sitting together, brainstorming what looks good – the first name, the last name, etc. Done, good to go.”

But then a phantom menace struck. George Lucas would periodically check in on the status of the games his company was making, lending creative input and advice. The developer I talked to sighs, and agitatedly says, “In one viewing of Fracture, [Lucas] said it looked really good, but he didn’t like [Mason Briggs’] name. We’re like, ‘What do you mean, George?’ He responded to the effect of, ‘It doesn’t really fit. When he jumps on stuff, he moves pretty fast. I like B.J. Dart.’

“So everybody’s like, ‘No, he’s gotta be f---ing with us.’ He’s absolutely not. So when something like that happened – in the middle of the campaign, mind you – we have to go back through that entire naming convention again… from scratch.” From that second session, Jet Brody was born. Coincidentally. Jett is the name of Lucas’ son.

A similar situation arose with Star Wars: The Force Unleashed’s protagonist, Starkiller. “[That name] was only supposed to be a nickname or call sign, not a proper name from the beginning,” a former LucasArts employee says. The development team hoped that Lucas would give Vader’s apprentice a Darth moniker, which at the time, was something that didn’t happen often.

“The team threw a Hail Mary to George, saying the game would have more credibility if the apprentice had a ‘Darth’ title,” a Force Unleashed team member says. Lucas agreed that this situation made sense for Sith royalty, and offered up two Darth titles for the team to choose from. “He threw out ‘Darth Icky’ and ‘Darth Insanius.’ There was a pregnant pause in the room after that. People waiting for George to say ‘just kidding,’ but it never comes, and he just moved on to another point.”

Team members involved in the decision to not use these ridiculous Darth titles could not be reached for comment, but three LucasArts employees believe an excuse was made to push the Darth title to the sequel. By the time development on that title commenced, the names were long forgotten by Lucas and weren’t muttered by the development team again. Starkiller remained Starkiller in the games, but was also named Galen Marek in the greater Expanded Universe fiction.

“These name problems may sound like funny stories, but the quality of these games suffered from these curveballs thrown by people not directly tied to the development process,” another employee angrily adds. “It got to a point that it became difficult to hire new talent because these stories got out there. People thought we were running a madhouse.”

RockBolt - 2016-01-08
Oh George

Nominal - 2016-01-08
Rosebeekee, yes that is SOP on any set.

It really is the most socially stratified environment outside of high school. Officially, you do not talk to people above your "tier" unless addressed. Keep your head down, do your job, and keep out of the way of everyone else. Unofficially, you're not really supposed to even sit with people above your tier at lunch, or talk to them off set.

Top tier : The Cool Kids
-Director's immediate assistants
-Lead talent

Mid tier : The technical people
-Camera people
-Sound guy
-Featured talent

Bottom tier : the freaks
That guy - 2016-01-08
What's even better is when this shit recapitulates itself on shoots with like 10-20 people on board, especially because some of them are wannabe snobs.

infinite zest - 2016-01-08
I've got a dayjob but I really enjoy being an extra when I have the time. I might be a freak but I'm usually drunk on the set.

infinite zest - 2016-01-08
I legally can't go into too much info about this but the higher ups are hilarious. They give every extra a motivation, shit like that. I understand why that's important in some small roles, like you're a zombie on World of Zombies or something, but standing in line or something?

infinite zest - 2016-01-08
oops Walking Dead, not World of Zombies. Unfortunately I thought that name would be great but it's already a video game, go figure.

That guy - 2016-01-10
Also, Nominal, the cinematographer is totally in The Cool Kids, and not the Mid Tier, but is usually too busy for it to matter.

Also you may as well put 'sound guy' in his own 1-person tier.
I assume you know what I mean.

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