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Category:Crime, Religious
Tags:Orlando shooting
Submitted:That guy
Date:06/12/16
Views:1502
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Comment count is 78
lotsmoreorcs
I just want everyone to know this discussion was kicked off by me lotsmoreorcs!! Wow those haji fucks hate the queers eh???
That guy
Disregard, etc.

15th
In the wake of this tragedy, I think we could all use more flippant pessimism. Thanks so much.

bawbag
Predictable, can support just ban this nazi fuck already?

lotsmoreorcs
I'm a NATIONAL SOCIALIST bro

bawbag
No, you're an edgy manchild who is earnestly full of hatred and expressing it in a 'forum bit' so that later you can do your heel-face turn and we're all supposed to respond with 'oh you sure got me! Good job!'.

Except when you have legitimately hijacked posts about massacres, gang rape etc to push your bullshit, you're still a goddamned asshole and the world has more than enough of those unfunny, imbecilic shitkickers so your schtick is banal in the extreme.

lotsmoreorcs
I imagine spittle forming on your lips as you type, huff and puff

bawbag
Projection.

lotsmoreorcs
BAWBAG

*removes fedora*

*runs trembling, pudgy fingers through long greasy hair*

*replaces fedora*

bawbag
Says the guy spending the bulk of his time on /pol/.

:^)

lotsmoreorcs
i dont go on 4chan or pol.this has been adressed in the past, i only visited 4chan for a brief 3 or 4 month window somewhere around 2013. nice pinocchio emoji, you fucking liar in a fedora

lotsmoreorcs
i just wish you sputtering neckbeards could see me and my living conditions in real-life/real time, i'm typing on a laptop floating on a inflatable desert island drink holder while floating on a giant TMNT floaty in the indoor pool of my Southwest home, all purchased with Haliburton family legacy money. i have a pile of weed on a glass table i pulled over to the side of the pool too.

bawbag
2/10.

Gmork
There's nothing more indicative of a shit lifestyle than someone going on about how great theirs is.

Sudan no1
Nothing says "I am the rational and calm person in this online conversation" like two verbose posts in a row. I remember liking orcs before one of trump's red hats poisoned his skull. Sad!

That guy
Bawbag beat me to this by a minute or so in the hopper.
His went into the hopper while I was submitting.
lotsmoreorcs
couldn't you have just went ahead and titled this a 'safe space'? were the forums at jezebel too abrasive or what?

Gmork
Man, you really are a caricature of a person.

misterbuns
the orcs account is a forum bit. i'd say more but I am bound by the honor of the Troll Code.

That guy
....choose your codes carefully?

That guy
Also, the vid that was in the hopper that I thought was posted by bawbag was not. It was posted by shitheel1000 aka orcs.

bawbag
I didn't submit one?

bawbag
ah never mind.

lotsmoreorcs
the other submission in the hopper was actually not posted by me, but it's cute to think about you guys feverishly trying to plot anti-orc hopper strategies. i probably would have titled it something like "Bullet Night at Homosexual Hovel Gets Out Of Hand" or "Anti-Faggot Jihad Movement Hits Its Stride". and what is this about me plotting a face turn? I yam what I yam! Yammy gang!

bawbag
No orcs, you would have given it an innocuous title like your 'Never stop partying' post then edited it later because you're a gutless coward.

lotsmoreorcs
BAHAHAHAHA GUTLESS COWARD, this is why people shitpost folks

can someone please set up a livestream so i can trash you touchy spergs in real time?

lotsmoreorcs
oh right, you pussies won't appear on stream because you will be exposed as the mouth breathing jorts wearing fedora clad sperg-warriors and i'll trigger your retard nerd rage to the extent that me threatening to cut off your ponytails will cause you to trash your disgusting bachelor pad and destroy your shitty laptop with your fat fists

Gmork
FACETIME FIGHT ME, BRO

SexualBasalt
Jesus just stop talking to him. He's obviously just one of those contrarian types who gets off on disagreeing with people who are easy to rile. Also wasn't the orcs account formerly run by some girl who got murdered?

Gmork
IIRC, New Orcs stated his whole racist mindset has something to do with aforementioned murdered girl having been murdered by a black person, therefore somehow justifying his frothing-at-the-mouth hatred and ignorance. Or maybe he was always like that and he's just using her death as an excuse to mentally validate his preexisting biases.

Bort
"Also wasn't the orcs account formerly run by some girl who got murdered?"

I think he said at some point that was all a troll on his part. He's also claimed to have paid the girl (Julia "Zoe" Anderson) for sex.

Simillion
Deadbeat jersey-shore looking moron who abused his ex-wife finds a way to get a fucking AR-15 and 50 people die, 50 more have gunshot injuries.

I really don't like it because it was an obvious hate crime

Also that fucking navy asshole who raped and killed than 20 year old okinawan girl needs to be fucking shot publicly, military style, for committing a heinous crime on foreign soil we are meant to be helping.

And Florida is way too gun-happy, as many would see if they went there
misterbuns
Nothing compared to what is going to happen to trump in november.
bawbag
5 for us LGBT people once again being the football in the 'let's blame everything except rampant homophobia and gun availability' game.
Bort
Five stars for bawbag. There might -- might -- be some side issues one can pull from this, but no matter what, the central issue is that some people want to kill LGBTs and they have easy means to do so.

Side note, one James Wesley Howell was arrested for plotting to unleash gun / explosive violence at the LA Gay Pride Parade. No motivations for him yet, which is to say, most likely the usual motivations.

memedumpster
The only reason that football game isn't all over these comments right now is because lotsmoreorcs pre-empted it with his cartoon caricature of said game.

I can't help but feel a little grateful to him, as it usually goes pretty horrible here.

EvilHomer
New Orcs is wonderful, and I don't know why people hate him. He's like Waugh: our moral center.

EvilHomer
I mean, could anybody else have brought us all together, so quickly, in the wake of this tragedy? I doubt it. So, good for him!

bawbag
When the initial issue that led to a massacre of LGBT people is homophobia and this human turd/sockpuppet-account-of-whoever posts homophobic fucking remarks for shits and grins on top of their usual black and muslim-bashing, that person is fucking human garbage regardless of if they think they're 'doing a bit'.

I used to wonder why the bulk of the good posters stopped posting here years ago, I now understand exactly why.

memedumpster
All of Donald Trump's talking points (no immigration at all, no Muslim immigration, all Muslims evil) used to be represented by a lot more posters who were a lot more serious than lotsmoreorcs. Also, every time a mass shooting happened, there were the anti-cops vs. the anti-anti-cops, the anti-child rights vs. the child rights folks, the spying database vs the anti-spying database folks and every third one of us was a libertarian.

Those halcyon days were bullshit.

I'll take the Captain Planet villain bit over the complete animal social breakdown that used to happen every time bad shit happened in the world.

That guy
meme, I really hope that my criticisms of islam have not collapsed in people's memories into "All muslims are evil".

Bort
meme - I wouldn't have noticed it, but I think you're right: a Designated Mustache-Twirling Villain has its benefits.

This event reminds me of an offer I think I've made before and I feel moved to make again. If there happen to be any LGBT types in a risky setting who need a safe place, they can Flee To The Cleve and I'll do what I can. Would need to talk it over with Frau Bort but I'm sure we can work something out. If nothing else you'll have lodgings for a day or two plus stories of how big an embarrassment I am in real life.

Bort
That guy - there is vanishingly small space between "all Muslims are evil" and "the Koran serves as a uniquely dangerous influence that requires its followers to be intolerant and use force to spread their religion".

That guy
Bort, I can't tell which direction you're going with that.

Bort
That guy, please explain to me what sort of person might be a Muslim, all bound up in the corrupting influences of Islam that drive a person to do horrible things, without being evil or at least a threat.

That guy
Bort, are you trying to build a strawman here so that you can knock it down?
I mean, why should I give you a real answer when you try to frame it with rhetoric like that?

Or do you think some sort of a priori or definition-based thinking is actually how to think about things?

Is it really too complicated for you to understand that an ideology might be generally shitty, without 100% of its billion adherents being shitty, due to:
• being different kinds of adherents to different versions of the ideology
• having different psychologies
• making different choices and valuing different things?

This is true of every group, regardless of their ideology being kinda good, kinda bad, great, shitty, whatever, (barring drawing trivial rings around groups of people - "the people who live without any cognitive dissonance" etc). Some christians emphasize the Gospel of Matthew and the Old Testament god, judgmental theology etc. Some de-emphasize the heck out of those things and manage to be a little more beatific.
Some "marxist" professors won't join a grad student labor protest because "it's not good for their career".

You're a smart boy, you can think up examples 3-1000 on your own. Don't be willfully stupid, please.

Bort
Have you not argued in the past that Islam contains uniquely terrible tenets that Muslims are obligated to uphold? I don't believe I'm misrepresenting you on that, nor do I think it's unreasonable to conclude that there can be no good Muslims under those conditions. Either they are devout Muslims (in which case they practice those uniquely terrible tenets) or they aren't devout Muslims (in which case they might reject those uniquely terrible tenets).

That guy
Bort,
If you're talking about that level of detail on Islam, no, I haven't said anything about that, nor do I have opinions on the 'central tenants' as I think you mean it. My focus is on it as practiced and preached, not trivia about tenants.
But in that same vague territory, there are some pretty astonishing poll results by Pew, and some pretty awful worldwide practices.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion -politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

I think ideologies and cultures and beliefs and values and social systems are fair targets for critique. Everyone's are, and I refuse to declare them "all equally bad", either. That's absurd.

As for this incident in Orlando, the motives are more or less an unknown at this point.

That guy
And if you're asking me if I think that generally, fundamentalist religion is evil, and among them is fundamentalist Islam, I think you have your answer to that.

You can use the word 'devout' to do rhetorical work for you, all you want.

Scrotum H. Vainglorious
Welcome to the new normal.
chumbucket
God damn the press on this:"Well a lot of people got gunned down so this MUST be some major move by a terrorist group threat!!" #where'sthenext911?
Monkey Napoleon
So, a couple of facts:

The shooter has been employed by security firm G4S since 2007 and posesses all the necessary licenses for purchasing the weapons used in Florida, and would have been able to purchase these weapons in even the strictest areas of the country with his credentials.
The FBI has investigated him for links to terrorists twice, but appears to have determined the links were coincidental.
Despite this, he was heard on a 911 call saying he was a member of the nation of Islam. There seems to be legitimate confusion as to what role religion played in the attack, and we probably won't know for sure for awhile.

It is going to be interesting to see how hard this tragedy is going to spun into a gun issue, despite the shooter's background.
Monkey Napoleon
As of 5 seconds after I hit submit, news broke that the FBI is saying they're pretty confident he was "radicalized" over the internet, whatever that means.

EvilHomer
I thought the 911 call said he was affiliated with ISIS? (or ISIL, or whatever other name you want to use for our gallant Syrian friends)

There's always a cloud of bullshit in the immediate wake of stories like this. The bullshit cloud will continue for a few days to a few weeks, until finally all of the corporations that control our mainstream media will settle on just one line of bullshit, whichever one plays best. Our best bet is to withhold judgement, or even ignore the story completely, for at least a week or two.

TeenerTot
I heard that on the call, he said he supports ISIL. Whether that means he's a card-carrying member, or just likes to sound like a big man in his head, I don't know.

Discordia
@Monkey Napoleon it means they have another talking point to break encryption on the internet.

Mr. Purple Cat Esq.
So, anti-gay and pro-gun-violence, but also pro-islam... Your average yanks bound to be pretty conflicted by this!

Until their talking heads tell them how to think I guess, but I wonder how they'll spin it, tis a tricky one for them.
Monkey Napoleon
C'mon now, you should understand us better than this by now.

What happens is we ignore or downplay the details that damage our preconceived political leanings and emphasize the details that support them.

Trumpists will use the incident to support their bigoted ideas about religion and immigration.

Clintonians will use the incident to support their anti-gun agendas.

And we all die a little inside as we're puffed up in self-righteous fury over our dummy level understanding of the world.

EvilHomer
Yeah, what Monkey Napoleon said. That is exactly how we operate.

For example: what *I'm* emphasizing is the fact that, in his call to emergency services, Mr Gunman apparently gave shout-outs to both ISIS - a post-911 boogieman group created by the American military-industrial complex - and the Tsarnaev Brothers - whose ties to the Gladio B program are solidly documented and difficult to dismiss. Meanwhile, I'm ignoring the fact that Mr Gunman was a registered Democrat, as well as the fact that he was a Muslim, a gun owner, and the son of an immigrant (I am one, too, so immigrant-baiting is a particularly touchy subject for me). On Facebook, I am playing up the narrative that he was a homophobe - despite the fact that there are actually contradictory accounts suggesting that homophobia played no part in this attack - because {lesbian galpal}, while downplaying or ignoring the potential CIA connections, because frankly I don't trust NSAbook one bit. And here on poeTV, I am thinking maybe I should just post some ponies?

It's fun, Mr Cat; you should try it some time!

Mr. Purple Cat Esq.
I was just thinking about my phrase "pro-gun-violence" I highly doubt anti-gun-legislation or pro-gun people would ever describe themselves as such. But I found it amusing, they all mean the same thing. A guns purpose is violently propelling lead as an efficient means to kill. The only pro-gun people who are anti gun violence would be a very strange subset of people who wish to manufacture lots of guns and then seal them in impregnable concrete vaults far underground.

This is not meant to be relevant to the video, just something I found amusing.

memedumpster
I knew doing a search would pay off.

http://www.guns.com/2015/02/21/bury-your-guns/

Void 71
I'm pro-gun only because I want the government to fear its citizens. Right now, we're shooting each other, but eventually we'll start hitting the right targets. When that happens, even if I'm long dead, I want to make sure we're not limited to pellet shooters.

I realize this makes me sound like a creepy gun nut, but I'm anything but. Next to cars and sports, gunfaggotry has to be the most boring hobby ever. My grandfather gave me one of his old wheel guns when I moved north of the Mason-Dixon in case any of them Yankees tried anything funny, but I don't even have ammunition for it. I just have this thing about being treated like a child by an empire gone rotten.

Oscar Wildcat
Let that be a lesson to you, Mr. Purple Cat Esq! You may think you understand America, but even in your wildest imaginings, you still can't outstrip our reality. Yes, we do buy hundreds (!!!) of guns just to lock them in safes and bury them underground. I even know one or two of these chuckleheads. Why? Because what the hell else do you do with all these dangerous machines? Thieves love them. Kids hurt themselves, or each other, with them. So you need to secure them. It's a viscous cycle. The more guns you have, the more dangerous is the situation of being around them, necessitating the purchase of more guns for protection.

Nominal
Listening to people talk about how rampant private gun ownership is the only thing keeping the government in line is like listening to Cold War clips talk about the domino theory.

13.5
The solution seems to be just ignoring the queerness of the people who were murdered and making it into a Crime Against America
That guy
I'm going to interpret this ironic statement in the best possible way, hoping that that's what you meant.

Old_Zircon
This is all too awful for me to follow closely, but I assume a certain segment of the American population is just drowning in conflict between their fear of gays and their fear of muslims right now.
lotsmoreorcs
Name calling and personal attacks side for this thread, if the usual suspects can control themselves

The alt-right websites I admittedly visit regularly are basically hoisting the shooter up as a champion due to the fact that this type of insanity functions as a Trump accelerator, driving homosexuals previously invested in the Bernie or even Hillary campaign straight into the iron arms of the Glorious Leader.

If I'm to understand an above comment from the one of the greatest mind on this site, misterbuns, if Trump goes down in November (or before then), should be be expecting even one single instance of copycat style retaliation? I think everybody here knows, there's no way. No matter how hateful and withdrawn the monoculture has truly become, unifying concepts that encourage each individual to live their own life to the fullest without interfering with another, will always unite even the most disparate of worldviews.

With the exclusion of course, of the Sand People who encourage this sort of mass slaughter of innocents as a holy war against degeneracy, and no I'm not talking about societal reject-turn-twitter trolls, I'm talking about the motherfucking ISLAMIC STATE

There is an interesting trend among the posters here I would classify as falling into the regressive left category of ignoring the Sand People and their reprehensible, disgusting behavior and I would hate for the conversation to get spun towards gun control and am way more interested in whether incidents like this will serve to radicalize american homosexuals against said Sand People
bawbag
Fuck off JHM.

lotsmoreorcs
I was wondering how long it would take everyone to find out!

Oscar Wildcat
I AM SPARTACUS!

Oscar Wildcat
Also your rampant racism with respect to the Tusken Raiders is duly noted. For the record, they are a peaceful people, and only attack the moisture farmers because of territorial disputes dating back to the founding of colonies on Tatooine.

Void 71
I'm sure there are a lot of gays who hate Islam, but they don't speak out against it for fear of being lumped in with the evangelicals who hate gays as much as they hate Islam. It's sort of like how there are lots of blacks who are feeling the negative effects of unfettered immigration from Mexico, but you never see them at anti-immigration rallies. America has more 'tribes' (both racial and ideological) than any other country in the world, and even though their interests often overlap, they're never able to put aside their differences long enough to find common ground. Hence, America's unhealthy obsession with identity politics.

Gmork
orcs complaining about "name calling" and "personal attacks"

Pot to kettle, come in kettle - you are black, repeat, you are black, over.

lotsmoreorcs
/\/\/\


XD

Miss Henson's 6th grade class
What I think you're missing here is that despite all the talk of the Muslim menace, Muslims constitute a tiny percentage of Americans and their political influence is tiny. On the other hand, most American homosexuals don't have to think too hard to come up with an example of an incident in which some fundamentalist Christian treated them as a non-person because something the apostle Paul wrote. All politics are local.

I don't think that American homosexuals have too many illusions about how strictly religious Muslims feel about them. They know that ISIS threw suspected gays off buildings in Iraq. But that probably doesn't affect their own lives too directly. The Christian Coalition, or whatever it's calling itself now, is another deal.

Whether huge numbers of Muslims immigrants who profess a strict view of Islam might negatively change American culture over the long term is a question worth considering for everyone, especially since immigration might not be the totalizing experience it was a hundred or so years ago. But that sort of immigration -- which would involve millions, not just a few thousand people -- is still largely theoretical at this point. Points against this possibility include the fact that many Muslims in America fully understand the disadvantages of a religiously oriented society, having escaped one themselves, the fact that Americans who come from minority religions often lean toward a more secular view out of obvious self-protection (see: Jews) and that a religious model of governance is proving itself to be a major disaster for large swaths of the Middle East (see: Iraq and Syria, 2003 to now).

But why am I even bothering. You're still a race-bating pseudo-fascist.

Ugh
not that it's can't be funny, but this place has become way too invested in being the exhibit rather than the crowd in the poe zoo

oh i guess also i was gonna say, it's hypnotic to see the conservative "treat gays as less than" crowd give condolences

see 1 http://i.imgur.com/7xGOUhR.jpg

turn into 2 http://i.imgur.com/ZdaYqAo.jpg

ta da

also just for "what the fuck"

http://i.imgur.com/S9eaCIg.png

who else loves cool cartoons? gets my day started i tell ya
lotsmoreorcs
this was good

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