|bawbag - 2017-10-18 |
dude, come on, let it go
no one is without trespass at times
Everyone does wrong shit sometimes.
Hounding someone about saying a racist thing, and also not acknowledging why he said it is not morally superior to having said that thing.
I don't agree with bringing up RoUS's racism just to make him feel uncomfortable and unwelcome here, but let's not pretend his racism was just a one-time thing when he was having a bad day. Dude posted lots of racist commentary, and after that wasn't going over so well, he switched to just sort of putting racist videos out there and hoping the videos would do the talking for him.
I have no idea what's going on with your comments, but I only discovered this site last January. I started posting only really recently. I wasn't sure if I should submit this but it seemed horrible enough to qualify for an "evil" video.
I'm not a racist for posting this and I make routine jokes about killing Nazis so nice to meet you.
MB - yer video's fine and nobody thinks ill of you for posting it. It meets the USRDA daily requirements for evil, and you're absolutely right, they'd never get away with filing something like this today (both because the language is so direct, and it would hurt the racists' feelings).
Rodents of Unusual Size is a long-time poster here, with his share of good traits but also deeply bigoted against blacks.
Oh ok. I thought that was a weird reaction. At first I thought the site admin was angry. Is bawbag the site admin?
And yeah, it's just interesting how television has changed. I think it's cool how they tried to do an anti racism episode and Robin Williams was so brilliant but it just comes across now as being...not good writing. It's kind of cringeworthy.
Our site admin is pms.
Yeah, one thing this video doesn't capture is that modern racism is polished to try not to appear racist, and is more often phrased in terms of, "we white people are the real victims". I have to admire racists, just a little, who are forthright in their shittiness, but they're relatively rare today.
I didn't know all of this backstory. I just read it.
I'm not excusing all that ROUS said. I'm not excusing 10% of what he's saying.
But I don't think he's lying about being badly assaulted. Some of his conclusions are shit, but you're acting like his experience is irrelevant, and therefore his opinions are not just shit but evil and incomprehensible. But...
IF you fight, THEN he fights back, and he digs in on his position, and he tries out ideas that are now maybe another step farther afield.
If you try to converse, you have a better chance of getting him to reconsider than if you just browbeat him.
Demanding that others are immaculately pure of speech and mind isn't progressive, to me.
-For one thing, it doesn't change minds, ever- ever. All it does is carve up teams, and figuring out who is on what team just isn't the most useful thing you can do politically on the street level. To my mind, it' about the worst.
-For another thing puritanism is inevitably hypocritical, which also doesn't change minds, ever.
This is an anonymous chat board that's usually best when cracking wise, and sometimes pretty good for heady conversation. Declaring war over a complex matter (Rous' opinions and experiences ARE a *complex* matter) and never ending the war just kinda fucks up the site.
I want to tell you guys a story that actually happened on poetv:
One time someone said something extremely inflammatory, and entirely on purpose, in reaction to other evils.
Someone else had a problem with it for a while, and then moved on.
Neither one of them lost the essence of their being, turned to powder, and blew away.
We can have a stable anarchic commune of a site here, right?
Sorry you got swept along with this, Marlon Brawndo.
That guy -- agreed for the most part; I don't cotton to going after RoUS out of the blue. If he speaks up about BLM being the new KKK, fine, give him what-for. But let him start it.
But about this ...
"Demanding that others are immaculately pure of speech and mind isn't progressive, to me."
... I don't think anyone is demanding that, but come on. RoUS went to a white supremacist site, found a video trying to make BLM look bad, and then posted that while declaring BLM to be the new KKK. Like SolRo says, that's not just leaving the toilet seat up. That's pretty intensely racist; we're not even in the same time zone as "immaculately pure of speech".
"Rous' opinions and experiences ARE a *complex* matter"
Maybe, maybe not. Let's assume for the moment he's not lying about how blacks attacked him for no other reason than being white (which I do not take on faith because EVERY racist says that blacks started it) ... so what? It certainly sucks that RoUS has a negative life experience to overcome, but that's his job as an adult. Even if he wee to say "I hate blacks and I realize it's not fair or rational but that's where I am", I could be cool with that. Instead RoUS's stance comes down to: if he feels something, then that feeling is right and everyone else is wrong.
Humans in general do tend to remember the bad examples more than the good examples.
For every 100 upstanding citizens there is one guy who shits in planters at the mall -- and that's the guy everyone remembers. Anyone who looks like that guy has to prove they are one of the 100 before people will go to the mall with them.
Bort, I wasn't saying that his worst comments are the kinds of things people are over-reacting to. But I'll play devil's advocate for a second:
I would assume that the video taken from a racist site is unreliable, unless proven otherwise. But neither the origin nor the content MAKES it unreliable. It's either fake or not fake, as far as that goes.
I find it abhorrent to say that BLM =KKK, but what I'm suggesting is that this is the kind of shit that gets said like 11 rounds into an argument like this.
What I find questionable about battling him is never acknowledging the part of his argument that says 'this shit also happens'. (I'm basing everything I say on the early arguments in this strife, which I think I remember, and not what was said later)
Again, I am not defending even 10% of what he has said along the way.
Maybe another running leap at what I mean would be like this:
a) two different people could respond to 'black lives matter' with 'all lives matter' (or even with 'black people also shoot cops' etc) and they could have very different mental contents but still say the same thing in one sentence
b) responding to that by imputing to those thoughts ONLY the worst possible values and motives isn't going to help change people's minds, they'll only dig in
c) liberal puritanism (like any kind of puritanism) seems to me to be ONLY capable of 'b' above- polarized thinking and demonizing the opposition's argument entirely and not just where it counts; it's also an insane ideology that will reflexively dismiss in-group evils as non-evils because of the kinds of intersectionality that boils down to special pleading, just like puritans of other stripes will do with their own brand of special pleading.
d) it shouldn't be an unspeakable piece of blasphemy to point to particular actions of people from a group, even if those particulars are complex. When people try to go from complex particulars to simple generalizations (whether about cops or BLM, etc etc), that's where you fight them.
Otherwise you get into these ridiculous situations like where you're fighting the enemy who says "They do bad stuff, they're bad" by saying equal bullshit back, and then everyone on the fence chooses which bullshit they want to believe.
"But I'll play devil's advocate for a second"
Why? Even the metaphor betrays the problem: the devil is the one being that doesn't deserve an advocate, and you're defending a position that you seem to feel doesn't deserve it.
"But neither the origin nor the content MAKES it unreliable. It's either fake or not fake, as far as that goes."
There's also context and very selective editing. Film a black person long enough and sooner or later they'll say "goddamn, why do white people even have to exist?" That is a far cry from blacks planning to kill all white people, just that they get very understandably frustrated with American culture.
"Again, I am not defending even 10% of what he has said along the way."
That "said along the way" stuff is kind of important. It's why people are sniping at RoUS rather than letting it go.
"a) b) c)"
Just a reminder, RoUS declared that BLM is the next KKK, among other things. This was not a matter of us harping on him forever because he used a wrong word. RoUS went full white supremacist, unambiguously so, and tried very hard make a case that BLM wants to kill white people. This wasn't a matter of him saying "colored" and not knowing the word is out of vogue. This was not him understanding why touching black people's hair is a bad move. This was him giving in to Stormfront-grade racism.
Remember when you had to be a retarded alien to not know why that sort of talk is unacceptable among decent people? Better times.
BLM = KKK is much stronger criticism than I'm comfortable with, but they are valid targets of criticism... and it's not any stronger than the gross hyperbole that gets tossed out like it's nothing around here when the target is someone you're comfortable hurling accusations at.
Even so, the point remains that bawbag is a shithead psycho bully with completely unhinged vendettas against a couple of poesters. He spends a nutty amount of time pouring through comment histories to look for anything he can twist into his narrative, ignoring everything else. He's admitted to keeping dossiers on users he finds objectionable, and while he could have been kidding, it doesn't really seem like he was considering his behavior. He makes veiled personal threats when it suits him, and I know for a fact he's attempted to cyber creep on people outside of the site.
He bullied RoUS into silence / leaving the site out of, I would say, reasonable fear of his vendetta crossing into meatworld. The least he can do is stop bringing him up. You beat him, dude... despite the fact that it's such incredibly toxic and vaguely threatening behavior that should get you permanently banned from here if that were possible.
Cue his inevitable response to me in which he calls me fat for some reason and infers from my interests in being against mob violence, for free speech, and generally finding extremist positions of all stripes distasteful, that I am a Nazi.
Bort should probably buy some fidget spinners to soothe his autism instead of using this site.
Your top-secret 🕵️ cyber-creep dossier status is in this thread gmork: http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=156158
|15th - 2017-10-20 |
We were so young then.
Meant as reply.
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