|casualcollapse - 2021-02-15 |
I never watched the original version of this so I'm just going to watch this version and never watch the other version.
@themilkshark is this the one where the cast got pissy because they weren't allowed to ad-lib during the reshoot because, you know, they were on a tight schedule and didn't have time to dick around?
I’ve watched the theatrical cut , it looked perfect
|SolRo - 2021-02-15 |
Some republicans aren’t brave enough to watch 4 hours of Zack Snyder schlock, will you be?
Doh, not meant as a reply
|yogarfield - 2021-02-15 |
|Two Jar Slave - 2021-02-15 |
So what's the viewing order etiquette for a marathon, here? Watch Man of Steel, then BvS (director's cut), then listen to an hour lecture on objectivism, then watch Justice League 2017, then smoke meth, THEN watch Justice League 2021, right?
Watch Batman 2 and pretend none of that other shit was made.
Which batman 2? Batman Returns?
Fuck yeah. Danny DeVito is a lot of fun and Michelle Pfiefer gave me a primordial boner. Tim Burton took Batman the right amount of serious for me - overtly cartoonish with a little bit of edge.
|Hegemony Cricket - 2021-02-15 |
INT UNKNOWN NIGHT
Nothing can be seen. It is pitch black. The SOUND of a SCUFFLE. It is incredibly dark.
Clark! Quickly! Over here!
SUPERMAN angrily searches then squints his upset glowing red mad eyes. Commits with blinding speed--
The SOUND of a Kryptonian FACE against an Amazonian SHIELD
|Pillager - 2021-02-15 |
|John Holmes Motherfucker - 2021-02-15 |
Zack Snyder makes difficult movies about comic book heroes. You have to admire that, right?
No, you do not. It turns out that difficult movies about comic book heroes are easy to hate, and easy to mock. However, they seem to be hard to avoid, at least for the people who I encounter in the parts of the internet I like to inhabit. Here on PoeTV, if I were to say that the thing I most admire about Batman V Superman is the thing everybody hates, I think most of you would guess what I was talking about. If you complain or mock Zack Snyder in the StreamDumpster IRC, everybody will join you in mocking or complaining, because they will have all seen it.
Like Batman V Superman, Justice League starts with a dreary, depressing slow motion sequence, as a backdrop to the opening credits. Slow motion action sequences are great, but these are iconic scenes of trauma, grief, and chaos, as the world mourns Superman. It's all accompanied by a cover version of Leonard Cohen.. It doesn't make you feel like you're about to be entertained.
But I'm starting to rethink Zack Snyder. I really do admire the WHY-DID-YOU-SAY-THAT-NAME business in Batman V Superman, for reasons that I should probably save for my upcoming blog*, and while I've always assumed that these movies have some kind of toxic masculinity at the core, maybe that's all style. Terrible, terrible style.
I'm not yet a fan of Zack Snyder, but I think his comic book films are perhaps over-maligned and underrated. Yes, they are a bit of a slog.
If Batman V Superman is any indication, I wouldn't promise that you'll enjoy the four hour Justice League, but I feel its a safe bet that four hours of Snyder version is a better investment of your time than two and a half hours of the original release.
*to fill the void in my life left by MNR
Ok, Evil Homer
Two Jar Slave
Batman v Superman was indeed better than internet hipsters say, if only for Snyder's big visual scope and endearingly dumb earnestness. More and more, I have to respect an approach that doesn't ape Marvel's sarcastic, pop-referential quippishness.
But you're right about the toxic masculinity. I'll never forget sitting in the theatre for 300, watching the slow-mo ejaculations of blood as our six-packed heroes massacred hordes of faceless brown people. I realized that any fascist in history would wholeheartedly endorse the movie, and once I saw it I couldn't unsee it -- not just for 300, but for most or all of Snyder's output. There's just constant imagery of big chosen men, meek supportive women, untrustworthy beaurocrats, and no room for half-measures, debates, compromises, or intellectualism. Snyder makes fascist propaganda, but for for any particular nation -- just for the idea itself. And I'm pretty sure he does it without meaning to.
John Holmes Motherfucker
I've never seen 300, but in the movies I'm talking about, I do not see fascist ideas, just fascist style. In Man of Steel, the fascist-imperialist is General Zog, who wants to apply eugenics to the citizens of Krypton, and who comes to earth to destroy the indigenous people for the sake of his "superior" civilization.
I think it's pretty undeniable that the subtext of Superman V Batman is the war on terror. When Zog and Superman battle over the city, Metropolis faces its own 9/11, complete with a collapsing building. Being among the collateral damage traumatizes Bruce Wayne to the extent that he is willing to
go to inhumane lengths to protect humanity from the Kryptonian Menace. In the most explicit reference to the terror war, Bruce quotes Dick Cheney's disastrous "one per cent doctrine".
"If there's a 1 per cent chance that he's our enemy, we should treat it as an ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY!"
There's no mistaking that.
Everything Snyder has made since Dawn of the Dead has been repulsive garbage. Full stop.
Two Jar Slave
Yeah, maybe it's fascistic style rather than ideas, the sort of movies that tick a lot of boxes on that list of fascism's early cultural warning signs. And it's not unique to Snyder -- he's just re-warming the same brand of ultraviolent self-righteousness stretched over muscled cardboard that used to give us the heebie-jeebies back when Rambo was transforming truckloads of Asians into ketchup. The superhero genre admittedly has a hard time avoiding it: remember when Nolan gave us three Batman movies all about how mass wiretapping, illegal extradition of suspects, and military fetishwear were some cool-ass shit, and how "the heroes we need right now" are the same ones we despise the most? I believe that trilogy climaxed with Gotham's thin blue line putting the beat-down on a group of Occupy Wallstreet-coded terrorists, but I could be wrong.
Still, there's something about Snyder's special love of idealistic carnage combined with deadpan mythologizing that makes even an idiot like me sit up and notice. He's the guy who made the Superman-as-Christ metaphor explicit, like, a bunch of times, while also revelling in the destruction Supes could wreak like no filmmaker before. If only Jesus were here to smite our enemies.
I don't think Snyder is actually a fascist, but I do think he accidentally channels a cultural stream of "cool" that is bending in that direction. And I think Frank Miller is probably a fascist, or was channelling that same stream back in the day, and Snyder returns to him again and again as a primary source.
John Holmes Motherfucker
Your argument lacks an argument.
No one has acknowledged the detailed text-based points that I spent an hour tapping out, much less countered them. I'm watching Man of Steel right now, and I could do a lot more tapping, but what would be the point?
As ponderous, dense, and overcooked as the imagery may be, I don't see any endorsement, implied endorsement, or sympathy to fascism in the text of the film, and I think it may be anti-fascist. This time around I'm seeing more indicators of fascism, as I currently understand fascism, in General Zog and his forces... and Zog is the bad guy, right? Can we agree on that?
Actually, I've long suspected that Krypton was really really fascist. I mean, everyone from this "advanced" world in the original comic book was out of a Nazi wet dream of Aryan whiteness. Of course, when you've got a red sun, no one needs melanin.
I'm looking at the text of Snyder's Superman films. I don't care about "300".
I was just commenting on TJS’s last paragraph. Frank Miller is an open racist and has publicly talked about 300 being an East vs West parable, a fascist parable:
Snyder made an almost frame for frame adaptation of that comic. He made a fascist movie. The best you could say is he did so unwittingly. Can’t comment on his DC stuff cause I didn’t watch it.
John Holmes Motherfucker
I wasn't responding to you personally, either, Mr. Y. It's just that "Your argument lacks an argument" is becoming my catch phrase.
I didn't see 300, and you didn't see the Superman movies. Feels like I got the better deal.
Sorry, JHM. Your replies were not tiny urls therefore I did not bother reading them.
Could you just post tiny urls from now on instead of talking?
|betamaxed - 2021-02-15 |
The only thing worse than seeing a 2 hour joss whedon movie is watching a 4 hour Zack Snyder movie.
The owners of the DC license should just drive a dump truck full of money to Jon Favreau’s house and see what he can do with the franchise.
Richard Donner is still alive and only 90. I’m up for an elder abuse scenario if you guys are.
Mr. Purple Cat Esq.
The DCAU was so fantastic for years.. They should have gotten Bruce Timm and co to do the DC films also.
The Avengers (Earth's Mightiest Heroes) and Dr. Strange (Sorcerer Supreme) cartoons were way better than the movies.
(not to mention staying on topic by bringing up the much better Justice League cartoons)
I dare say it, but even Teen Titans Go! is better, despite all the hate it gets
Anything that does not give you a pounding headache made of pure misery is better than the Snyder DC movies.
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