It was a Frankenstein monster of reshoot footage and Snyder's cast trying to channel the comic energy of The Office

Wait, which one??

I can't figure out if I should just watch this, or if I should go back and watch the original, to truly appreciate how much this is train wreck.

On the other hand, that's a lot of hours of my life...

@themilkshark is this the one where the cast got pissy because they weren't allowed to ad-lib during the reshoot because, you know, they were on a tight schedule and didn't have time to dick around?

I’ve watched the theatrical cut , it looked perfect

RLM called it:

Mike: Clearly the DC films are operating on a higher intellectual level than the Marvel films, and–
Rich: You can tell because of the blue filter 

(https://tinyurl.com/1jdwkt50 - thanks for the extremely useful TinyURL tip!)

Doh, not meant as a reply

You forgot Suicide squad and Wonder Woman

Watch Batman 2 and pretend none of that other shit was made.

Which batman 2? Batman Returns?

Fuck yeah. Danny DeVito is a lot of fun and Michelle Pfiefer gave me a primordial boner. Tim Burton took Batman the right amount of serious for me - overtly cartoonish with a little bit of edge.

Ok, Evil Homer

Batman v Superman was indeed better than internet hipsters say, if only for Snyder's big visual scope and endearingly dumb earnestness. More and more, I have to respect an approach that doesn't ape Marvel's sarcastic, pop-referential quippishness.

But you're right about the toxic masculinity. I'll never forget sitting in the theatre for 300, watching the slow-mo ejaculations of blood as our six-packed heroes massacred hordes of faceless brown people. I realized that any fascist in history would wholeheartedly endorse the movie, and once I saw it I couldn't unsee it -- not just for 300, but for most or all of Snyder's output. There's just constant imagery of big chosen men, meek supportive women, untrustworthy beaurocrats, and no room for half-measures, debates, compromises, or intellectualism. Snyder makes fascist propaganda, but for for any particular nation -- just for the idea itself. And I'm pretty sure he does it without meaning to.

I've never seen 300, but in the movies I'm talking about, I do not see fascist ideas, just fascist style. In Man of Steel, the fascist-imperialist is General Zog, who wants to apply eugenics to the citizens of Krypton, and who comes to earth to destroy the indigenous people for the sake of his "superior" civilization.

I think it's pretty undeniable that the subtext of Superman V Batman is the war on terror. When Zog and Superman battle over the city, Metropolis faces its own 9/11, complete with a collapsing building. Being among the collateral damage traumatizes Bruce Wayne to the extent that he is willing to
go to inhumane lengths to protect humanity from the Kryptonian Menace. In the most explicit reference to the terror war, Bruce quotes Dick Cheney's disastrous "one per cent doctrine".

"If there's a 1 per cent chance that he's our enemy, we should treat it as an ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY!"

There's no mistaking that.

Everything Snyder has made since Dawn of the Dead has been repulsive garbage. Full stop.

^^^^^^^^^^

Okay, Brawndo

Yeah, maybe it's fascistic style rather than ideas, the sort of movies that tick a lot of boxes on that list of fascism's early cultural warning signs. And it's not unique to Snyder -- he's just re-warming the same brand of ultraviolent self-righteousness stretched over muscled cardboard that used to give us the heebie-jeebies back when Rambo was transforming truckloads of Asians into ketchup. The superhero genre admittedly has a hard time avoiding it: remember when Nolan gave us three Batman movies all about how mass wiretapping, illegal extradition of suspects, and military fetishwear were some cool-ass shit, and how "the heroes we need right now" are the same ones we despise the most? I believe that trilogy climaxed with Gotham's thin blue line putting the beat-down on a group of Occupy Wallstreet-coded terrorists, but I could be wrong.

Still, there's something about Snyder's special love of idealistic carnage combined with deadpan mythologizing that makes even an idiot like me sit up and notice. He's the guy who made the Superman-as-Christ metaphor explicit, like, a bunch of times, while also revelling in the destruction Supes could wreak like no filmmaker before. If only Jesus were here to smite our enemies.

I don't think Snyder is actually a fascist, but I do think he accidentally channels a cultural stream of "cool" that is bending in that direction. And I think Frank Miller is probably a fascist, or was channelling that same stream back in the day, and Snyder returns to him again and again as a primary source.

With “300” Snyder made a faithful adaptation of an overtly fascist text. Frank Miller was open saying that his comic was about how the West has to smash those filthy browns for great justice or whatever.

Snyder may not understand that he is a fascist, he might just think he likes flags and violence, but he’s definitely promoting the stuff.

Your argument lacks an argument.

No one has acknowledged the detailed text-based points that I spent an hour tapping out, much less countered them. I'm watching Man of Steel right now, and I could do a lot more tapping, but what would be the point?

As ponderous, dense, and overcooked as the imagery may be, I don't see any endorsement, implied endorsement, or sympathy to fascism in the text of the film, and I think it may be anti-fascist. This time around I'm seeing more indicators of fascism, as I currently understand fascism, in General Zog and his forces... and Zog is the bad guy, right? Can we agree on that?

Actually, I've long suspected that Krypton was really really fascist. I mean, everyone from this "advanced" world in the original comic book was out of a Nazi wet dream of Aryan whiteness. Of course, when you've got a red sun, no one needs melanin.

I'm looking at the text of Snyder's Superman films. I don't care about "300".

As a matter of fact, couldn't the iconography of Man of Steel just as easily be seen as Soviet? Think of all that working class imagery. The farms, the fishermen, the oil rig. A flaming Clark Kent rescuing Derrick workers.

The villain in Batman V Superman is Lex Luthor, a corrupt arms merchant, born into class privilege, manipulating events to build support for his racist war against Superman.

And once again, it literally cannot be a coincidence that Bruce Wayne quotes Dick Cheney in his rationale for murdering Superman:

"If there's a 1 per cent chance that he's our enemy, we have to your treat it as an ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY!"

I was just commenting on TJS’s last paragraph. Frank Miller is an open racist and has publicly talked about 300 being an East vs West parable, a fascist parable:
http://www.theatlasphere.com/metablog/612.php
Snyder made an almost frame for frame adaptation of that comic. He made a fascist movie. The best you could say is he did so unwittingly. Can’t comment on his DC stuff cause I didn’t watch it.

I wasn't responding to you personally, either, Mr. Y. It's just that "Your argument lacks an argument" is becoming my catch phrase.

I didn't see 300, and you didn't see the Superman movies. Feels like I got the better deal.

Sorry, JHM. Your replies were not tiny urls therefore I did not bother reading them.

Could you just post tiny urls from now on instead of talking?

https://tinyurl.com/4s2lxe8d

The owners of the DC license should just drive a dump truck full of money to Jon Favreau’s house and see what he can do with the franchise.

Richard Donner is still alive and only 90. I’m up for an elder abuse scenario if you guys are.

The DCAU was so fantastic for years.. They should have gotten Bruce Timm and co to do the DC films also.

The Avengers (Earth's Mightiest Heroes) and Dr. Strange (Sorcerer Supreme) cartoons were way better than the movies.

(not to mention staying on topic by bringing up the much better Justice League cartoons)

I dare say it, but even Teen Titans Go! is better, despite all the hate it gets

Anything that does not give you a pounding headache made of pure misery is better than the Snyder DC movies.