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Desc:A humorous and thought provoking critique of contemporary education.
Tags:education, ken, creativity, lecture, sir
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Comment count is 30
Rodents of Unusual Size - 2007-11-05
Not enough stars.
baleen - 2007-11-05

Good stuff.
Camonk - 2007-11-05
Schools are exactly designed to keep dudes from becoming kings
Smellvin - 2007-11-05
Probably the funniest lecture on public education in the history of mankind.
SolRo - 2007-11-05
Ehh, I agree somewhat, but it's also the fault of the job market.

Few jobs require creativity, the majority actualy prefering uncreative and obedient dregs that get along with their co-worker dregs, and smile while doing so.
don piano - 2007-11-05
yes, because creative people are all socially disabled.

people like you are the reason we wince when we hear speeches like this.

Xiphias - 2007-11-05
I'm with Shion, there are much worse problems with (at least the US) school system.

I do agree, however, that stigmatizing mistakes is a serious problem in education.

Enough about dancing, though.

sosage - 2007-11-05
Not to argue for SolRo, but he/she's blaming the environment not the person. From my perspective, his comment did not say "creative people are socially disabled" (or maybe SolRo was being too vague in who "the majority" are in his second paragraph). Even creative employers in creative fields don't like people thinking creatively. If you don't believe that one, go talk with any of the billions of ex-EA employees that scour the earth looking for work. Disney is another one. Funny that this is sponsored by a car company, cause I've heard a lot of creative squashing happens in that industry also.

5 stars. Although I pity the person that hears this speech and thinks that drawing bad fanime makes up for not being able to do simple algebra.

baleen - 2007-11-05

I think Sir Ken's main point was that children are not being developed for their gifts. I didn't think he was referring solely to the arts in his lecture. He seemed to be recommending a creative school system that encourages individual development instead of a factory process that only hopes to churn out classes where only 10% of the graduates are viable.

I had a crazy math teacher in high school who told the class point blank that the only reason he was being paid to teach us math was that the government needed that 1% to make the nuclear missiles. Everyone else can go fuck themselves. He got fired for comparing the chalkboard to black students and the chalk to white students.

Still I think the dancer anecdote was a little overly optimistic. I don't think we can have a country where 10% of the students are professors and the other 90% star in continuous Andrew Lloyd Webber festivals.

Feyd - 2007-11-05
Education is boring, jobs are uninteresting, and nobody's given enough attention HUFF HUFF HUFF HUFF at my own joke. Insufferable and uninsightful.
Rodents of Unusual Size - 2007-11-05
You miss the point entirely by embracing all the stereotypes this man is trying to break.

Rodents of Unusual Size - 2007-11-05
And I bet now you're going to say something about how real grown ups don't complain about the world, they just shut up and don't make noise. Fuck those artists who want more out of life! Right, Feyd? You tool.

Feyd - 2007-11-05
Hey fruitcake, he's attacking an easy target for the head-bobbing of morons. It's unreasonable to want a standardized State program that manages to succeed in anything other than teaching standard skills, the ones most normals are used to seeing in the curriculum: Math, science, English, and maybe not growing up a lardass. I'd like to see you try to inspire the 30-40 children you'd be personally in charge of to tap their creative urges, because it would cause you to kill yourself. Maybe embracing unique ability and creativity isn't the most important part of a curriculum.

snppls - 2007-11-05
Firstly, the idea that he is attacking an easy target for the head-bobbing of morons has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he is right or wrong.

Secondly, he doesn’t say for a second that we should embrace unique ability and creativity as the most important part of a curriculum. He states very early on that math’s, science etc are of importance but rather suggests equilibrium with other subjects is necessary. I grant that teaching creativity may be difficult. Instead the point he makes is not how to teach creativity but to not teach students out of creativity. I think this is wholly possible within standardized state programs; I speak of Australia here because that is the only education system I have really known as curriculum guidelines lend itself to interdisciplinary learning. Of course this is entirely dependent on how the teacher implements the curriculum within the classroom. Curriculum's can and will have very little to do with student learning at the end of the day depending on the teacher using it.

Feyd - 2007-11-06
If only there was somewhere else kids could learn creativity...like say from the rest of their fucking lives. That couldn't possibly be better than trying to shoe-horn in 'creative' programs that might detract resources from more legitimate subjects like music and the fundamentals. Schools don't kill creativity, they just attempt to teach the foundation skills that kids will grow up to use in all subsequent efforts, creative and otherwise.

TeenerTot - 2007-11-06
I think the point is there can be greater success in ALL fields if you teach creativity along with reading, writing, and arithmetic.
Science and mathematics require creativity to move forward as much as arts do. What if Gallileo had't "played" with leses? What if Copernicus hadn't thought beyond the science of his time?
Math is important to know. But creativity helps one apply it to new discoveries.

Feyd - 2007-11-07
Yeah, and there are approximately another 18 hours a day (plus weekends!) parents and their kids are perfectly capable of dedicating to creative activities. Public school is the improper tool to develop this ability. How does this keep failing to get through? That due to scalability, manpower, and budget constraints we rely on standardized curricula, and that standardized creativity is kind of a fucking stupid idea?

Vicious - 2008-01-13
I like when he stutters his "D"s.

Shion - 2007-11-05
Interesting, but I'll be more excited about creativity on its own merits when schools start graduating people who can read and write.
baleen - 2007-11-05


Shion - 2007-11-06
Sig heil.

Doctor Hackenbush - 2007-11-05
Hello. My name. Is Michael. Caine.
Roachbud - 2007-11-05
Good, but weak ending. I don't think dancing and poetry are going to solve global warming, that's up to science.
nonplusplus - 2008-01-25
Pretty Kaye effect videos aside, I think it's a huge mistake to think that 'Science!' is going to fix global warming.

The technical solutions already exist. It's the politics that needs fixing. But, yeah, dancing and poetry aren't going to fix that either.

Adramelech - 2007-11-05
Yes. Yes they do.

Wonderful, humorous lecture explaining something that is profoundly important. John Taylor Gatto is highly recommended.
A Jumping Spider! - 2007-11-06
I had the same 'mmmrmrfff, not so much' feeling at the last fourth, but I can kind of understand where he was going there. Worth listening to and giving a thought.
phalsebob - 2008-01-09
He's not saying that schools should teach creativity. He's saying they should stop squashing it.

When I was in grade 1 or 2 my uncle taught me about negative numbers, roots, and squares. I understood, and I probably wasn't alone. The teacher called my parents in and told them to stop teaching me such things. I was off the standard track and threatening to create a tiny amount of work for her. That's the kind of stupid shit I think he's warning about.

Also, ADHD may be an easy horse to beat, but that does not make him wrong. Most, ADHD kids need a more hands on approach to education, not drugs.
keinsignal - 2008-01-09

fluffy - 2009-06-12
In grade school I was in an advanced math component along with a few of my classmates where we were learning about algebra and complex numbers and even a little bit about calculus, and my teacher one day got the notion that this advanced class was doing us harm because we weren't as fast at two-digit multiplication in speed drills as the kids who weren't in the advanced component.

I was also told many times that I shouldn't spend so much time using the computer because computers are just a toy and I really needed to work on my handwriting since that would be much more important in my career.

The really frightening/sad thing was that I was in the gifted program and even THEN the teachers were afraid of us learning things outside of their course plans.

PeteyCruiser - 2008-07-14
dead on.
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