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Desc:Border patrol questions driver in Arizona 40 miles north of U.S./Mexican border.
Category:Educational, Crime
Tags:homeland security, border patrol, detained, Lee Greenwood
Submitted:Anonymous
Date:06/01/08
Views:5544
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Comment count is 50
futurebot
-1 for the captions and the ridiculous Ayn Rand / Ron Paul quoting website that he links to. +4 because he's right.
NineEleven
They detained his ass good and proper this time, he didn't even have to ask more than once.
Repomancer
Guy was being a dick.

BUT

Was he or was he not free to go? Was he detained? If he was, according to the law they had to arrest him. They didn't have anything to arrest him FOR, but they will pretend as far as you let them.

It's the perpetual erosion of our rights that scares me. The poor dumb shit at the checkpoint was just trying to do his job, but the government that continually redraws the lines under pretenses of preserving your liberties, while ignoring legal precedent and the letter of the law, has to be held to some standard, sometime, somewhere.

Hooray for the Patriot Act and Homeland Security and threat levels and pointless wars.
Hooker
This guy is as much of a hero as the people that protest Coca-Cola by stopping truck drivers.
Frank Rizzo
I dont understand why you all call him a dick.

these checkpoints are bullshit and make us just 1 step closer to being a police state. Call me paranoid or a liberal douche if you want, but as far as Im concerned no one has the right to randomly ask you questions like this.

I think Ben Franklin would agree with me.
Hooker
Disagreeing with the checkpoints is one thing. I don't know enough about them to comment, but they certainly seem shady. It's the matter in which he confronts the problem that's retarded.

Frank Rizzo
should he write a letter?

Hooker
Well, that's the only other avenue he has.

Lindner
Oh, well THIS certainly is better than a letter. It accomplishes...

Wait.

What does this accomplish again?

Ten bucks says this is some angle to make all those hot libertarian bitches wet with admiration. Because it does FUCK ALL else!

Hooker
Modern libertarians are far more concerned with making a scene than they are with making a change. That's all this is.

futurebot
Um, think about the words "court" and "evidence" and suddenly this video may seem a little more productive.

dr_rock
It accomplishes getting people like me to know this is even happening. Here on the east coast we don't have internal checkpoints... I had no idea this was happening. Now I know, and it pisses me off. Now *I* could do some letter writing.

See? Mission accomplished.

dancingshadow
There are FOUR LIGHTS !

GlennFinito
Here you go, dancingshadow

Ersatz
The price of freedom is eternal pedantry.

Eventually they'll just post his license plate at the checkpoint and either wave him through without stopping, or detain him on suspicion of smuggling and rip apart his car looking for drugs and Mexicans.

Somehow I imagine he'd be more pissed off by the former: what would he have to complain about then?
Blackbetta
Doesn't seem like a real effective checkpoint. What do the border patrol thugs expect to hear - "No, my good man, I am indeed and indisputedly in your country illegally. I hoped to create a terrorist sleeper cell by driving through Arizona in the middle of the day, but your vigilance has thwarted my plans. Bravo, sir. You may have saved thousands of your countrymen this day."

Diogenes
I don't think Sparky there has actually read United States v. Martinez-Fuerte. A checkpoint stop is a seizure of a person under the forth amendment, but it's a reasonable seizure and does not require suspicion that illegal activity is occurring. That case pretty much says that everything they're doing in this video is constitutional and is fourth amendment reasonable, with the possible exception that the checkpoint is forty miles from the boarder.

Secondly, incorrectly arguing the intricacies of constitutional law and highly technical legal definitions with people who are not lawyers makes you a huge faggot, particularly when you are wrong. If you have a problem with policy implementation you take it into court with lawyers, judges, and other people who studied the fine art of lawyering. That's where the bigboys play. That's where violations of civil rights are redressed.

Although, I'm actually rather surprised he's able to faggot his way through a checkpoint. That seems like something that would get you actually detained instead of imaginary detained.
halon
"With the possible exception that it's not reasonable at all". Okay then.

And yeah, I mean, why would we expect an enforcement agent of the US government to know exactly what the fuck "detainment" means? They're not lawyers!

Diogenes
The US supreme court has ruled there are a number of warrantless searches and seizures that are reasonable under the forth amendment. Border checkpoints, Terry stops, mere seizure, the plain view doctrine etc, etc, etc. You might not think they're reasonable, but nobody gives a fuck about your particular interpretation of constitutional law or legal precedent.

Second, there is absolutely no reason for our law enforcement officers to be lawyers. They are in charge of enforcing public policy. Law enforcement officers didn't create the policies, they're not experts in the policies, they haven't spent the better part of a decade studying the policies, and they shouldn't be in charge of deciding if Stumblefuck Greenwood the homebrew-lawyer makes a persuasive legal argument. If you want to argue about laws and policy you do it in a court in front of lawyers and legal experts. You get the policy changed for everyone. You get civil rights violations redressed. Lawyers from the ACLU are your real hero's, not some dumb faggot who realized he could become such a pain-in-the-ass that they flag him through the checkpoint.

If his rights are being violated then the rights of all the people who are behind him are also going to be violated, and posting pissant youtube videos is never going to fix that.

charmlessman
Your prodigious use of the word faggot convinced me you are right.

futurebot
You seem to be missing a pretty crucial point: one typically doesn't have legal standing to "take it into court with lawyers, judges, and other people who studied the fine art of lawyering" against the federal government until one's rights have actually been violated. This man is taking the first necessary step towards building just such a case.

Iakchos
I love the moment when Agent Villa appears.
DrVital
I'm a fan.
Nothing like someone challenging the assumptions of security theater.
Jefka
Thank god Rosa Parks didn't live in the internet age.
Cleaner82
Why was she bothering all those white people? They don't make the rules! What a dick!

Cleaner82
She should have written a letter.

Hooper_X
OH MY GOD I NEVER REALIZED THAT THE MILD INCONVENIENCE OF A CHECKPOINT IN THE MIDDLE OF GODDAMN NOWHERE IS *EXACTLY THE SAME THING* AS DE JURE SEGREGATION!

my eyes have been opened, jefka. thank you and god bless you.

Cleaner82
Drawing a comparison =/= exactly the same. So tired of that golden oldie. And really, I think I was the one who took his vague statement and ran with it.

Monchiles Monchiles
The cops are supposed to work for us and we shouldn't be afraid of them. I GUESS some guy going around hassling cops is fairly admirable.
Big Beef Burritos Supreme
Right, so his point is that checkpoints are a form of oppression and an erosion of constitutional rights.

Uh, ok. Wouldn't a petition or something be more practical?
charmlessman
A petition briefly hits the desk of some bureaucrat before it hits a waste basket. A youtube video like this generates discussion like we're having. Discussion leads to action. Which is more effective?

Cube
If all US citizens were aware of their rights and laws, the US wouldn't be a laughing stock of all Europe. From our point of view people in the US are just letting the government dictate what they can and can't do, and everybody is submitting to it because they're afraid of terrorists, high gas prices etc.

If everyone would defend their rights, opressing people might become impractical for the people behind it.

But who'd bother, right? It's easier to sit on the couch watching US TV, drink Coke and eat foods loaded with fat and sugar.
Diogenes
So, what protections do these wonderfully utopian European courts offer you against illegally obtained evidence? Would you like to discuss the European exclusionary rule?

Cleaner82
Europe is not a country, its laws vary throughout. Here I thought that would be common knowledge, especially to a European.

futurebot
HEY EUROPE BOY, GO BACK TO EUROLAND

Hooper_X
I like the fact that Our Protagonist and Agent Villa seem to know each other already. He saunters up and is all mentally "aw, christ, not THIS GUY again..."

Also: This is chump change shit here. You want to see some legitimately fucked up abuses of power, google Kathryn Johnston, who used to live on Neal Street in Atlanta. An 88 year old woman shot to death by three cops on a "drug raid" that was based on lies.

Three stars because while I appreciate someone pointing out the ridiculous arbitrariness of the thing, I can't fucking stand the Michael Moore school of social protest (i.e., shove a camera in some minimum wage worker's face and treat them like they're personally responsible for whatever's got you pissed off - what's he gonna do, throw his hands up and go "OH MY GOD YOU'RE RIGHT I DIDN'T NEED THIS JOB ANYWAY! YOU'RE ALL FREE TO GO AND THE COMMUNITY CENTER IS SAVED!"?).
Enjoy
I love this guy.
grimcity
Dude's a kook and an ass, but he's right and I'd buy him beer.
Dinky Patterson
He makes their jobs more interesting.
chumbucket
the 9+ minutes was worth the "rocks off or somethin" comment.
charmlessman
To all those who say this guy was being a dick:
The American Rebels were being dicks when they threw tea into the harbor. Ghandi was being a dick when he marched on the British salt depots. Martin Luther King was being a dick when he organized marches and protests. Susan B Anthony was being a dick when she petitioned and protested in favor of womens' suffrage.

You don't and can't effect change in a corrupt government without bringing attention to your cause. And you can't bring attention to your cause without being a goddamn dick.
Cleaner82
There's an undercurrent I'm detecting here, and it's mirrored more or less througout society, where people are afraid to stand up for themselves because they don't want to hurt the cop's feelings. I don't get that at all. Yes, stand up for what you believe in, protest injustice, but HEAVEN FORFEND you BOTHER someone in the process.

Unsung
This video was made for everyone who never outgrew their "SMASH THE STATE" high school phase.

Needs a "libertarian" tag.
futurebot
Yeah, truly this man is the Guy Fawkes of mildly annoying a a border guard for ten minutes. What a wildly disproportionate reaction to being illegally searched, interrogated and detained.

svraz
You guys have checkpoints?
That is insane.
Does this mean the terrorists have won?

Seriously though.
WTF?
Hooper_X
That checkpoint is in the middle of buttfuck nowhere (a cursory glance at Wikipedia suggests it runs right through the middle of an indian reservation).

I would imagine that it's there because that particular stretch of road might just happen to be a hot spot for the guys who haul shittons of illegal immigrants across the border and into the U.S., which, regardless of your opinion on the matter, is often insanely unsafe for the people being snuck in (locked in the backs of cargo trucks without air conditioning, food, water, etc. in 100+ degree heat). One might presume that the purpose of this checkpoint is to theoretically catch someone who might be smuggling people from the border to somewhere with a fucking bus station or something.

There certainly isn't anything like that in New York or L.A. or Macon, Georgia, if that's what you're asking. It's in a very specific place with I would presume a VERY specific purpose, as opposed to just being random harassment, which is what Our Protagonist is making it out to be.

THEN AGAIN I COULD JUST BE RATIONALIZING MY FREEDOM AWAY BECAUSE I'M A DUMB FAT AMERIKKKAN SHEEPLE UNNNH.

Cube
1) They don't seem to have a clue about what to do when someone does what the driver did. Didn't they think this law through -- wait, the "you were always free to go, but it's a felony not to stop" -part answers that.

2) Isn't it a bit too convenient to put "a regular guy who's just doing his job" on a checkpoint? As if there's nobody to take responsibility or even interpret the law that puts these checkpoints on the roads. "It'll be easier on both of us if you just wave your rights" isn't exactly the brightest policy.

3) Isn't it at least good behaviour, not to mention required for an officer to introduce himself when stopping someone?

There are some messed up laws in my country, too. It seems most of the people just don't care or don't know enough to be interested, which in turn makes it practically impossible to reverse idiotic laws.

As I said before: Idiocracy, here we come. It's still good to know there are some people pointing out the idiotism in the system.
Senator_Unger
5 stars for Villa's slick attempt to get the driver to admit he was a citizen by saying how proud he was to be a citizen himself.
fluffy
There's been one of these on I-25 just North of Las Cruces, NM for at least 15 years, probably much longer. I am glad that I never got stuck behind some dickhole doing this bullshit.

5 stars for the ridiculous "camera shutter" effect.
Sexy Duck Cop
I love it when they ask for a badge number in these videos, as if there's a serious concern random weirdos are recreationally posing as DHS agents so they can inspect your trunk for purely sexual reasons.
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