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Desc:'I feel Man has a moral obligation, not only to his own kind, but actually to the world at large.'
Category:Religious, Educational
Tags:God, attenborough, Morality, The Natural World, Obligation
Submitted:j lzrd / swift idiot
Date:07/17/08
Views:1681
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Comment count is 15
j lzrd / swift idiot - 2008-07-17
I was raised Unitarian Universalist. Later, I became a Utilitarian Secular Humanist. Now I really don't know where I stand, which is why I seek guidance from those who have spent their entire adult lives seeking out and exploring that which we can see, can touch, can prove in nature and the world around us.

I wish there was some kind of faith with the fundamental tenent that true knowledge of God/The Unseen-Unknown is, for the present, beyond our reach, and the secondary tenent that we must strive to uncover the rules and laws set down by our Universe.

It's not that I don't believe in the Prime Mover.

I just want Humanity to usurp the Empty Throne.
Rovin - 2008-07-17
Who says you need an organized belief system for that? Believe what you want and be happy with it. You don't need a subscription to prove who you are and what you think, after all.

j lzrd / swift idiot - 2008-07-17
Organization means being able to stand your ground against people who are deluded into thinking they belong to an organized belief system.

I don't need faith in Mankind, I need ammunition to shoot down anyone who believes Mankind is destined for the Four Horses.

Rovin - 2008-07-17
Well yeah, but if you take away the four horses, that only leaves the metal bands with Satan and rampaging Nordsmen to sing about. Do you ENJOY the thought of Dave Mustaine being unemployed good sir?

j lzrd / swift idiot - 2008-07-17
Oh, be serious.

glasseye - 2008-07-17
Attenborough is an amazing man. As an atheist, I'd like to be more like him in several ways.
baleen - 2008-07-17

As an atheist I'd like these guys to start coming up with ways to have an society without faith that wouldn't degenerate into nihilism and chaos the moment materialism is no longer an option. So far all I've heard is "it's something we need to work on" from the likes of Dawkins.

j lzrd / swift idiot - 2008-07-17
Be conscientious. That's step Ver0.1

FatFatuousNation - 2008-07-17
The premise that without a god, we could behave however we wish without recourse is absurd. We would still be punished by other humans for bad behavior.

Our laws are a product of self-interest, not Biblical commandments: we don't want others to murder us, so we punish murderers. If the parts of the Bible discouraging murder were revealed to be mistranslations, nobody would suggest releasing from jail serial killers.

Religion is evidently superfluous to law, so chaos would not form without religion. As far as nihilism, the notion that "existence is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value," is that really threatening? Do we really need our purpose written in stone? The "value" of life is a subjective experience, not something decreed by God. We value our lives and the lives of our friends, with or without belief in a deity.

Society would be just fine without a god.

FatFatuousNation - 2008-07-17
*"recourse" in the second line = "penalty"

Billy Buttsex - 2008-07-17
Baleen: future Christian. You sound like a preacher, talking about himself 20 years ago.

FatFatuous: future serial killer. "WE MAKE UP MORALITY, AND THERE'S NO STANDARD"

j lzrd / swift idiot - 2008-07-17
Don't mind Billy, he's irrelevant to the conversation.

Crucifried - 2008-07-17
As a... I don't know... theist, I agree with Attenborough about a lot of it. But both the presenter and Attenborough have a very unenlightened view of spiritual belief. Not everyone thinks that the creation myths are literal. Not everyone who reads the bible thinks that every word in it is uninterpretable and that to believe in it as a metaphor is blasphemous. We shouldn't strive for a society without faith, but a society where atheist belief is accepted as well as spiritual, and both recognize the universal truth of science. Spiritual truth can only be true to the spirit (or, if you're an atheist, person) that believes that truth. Science is true for everyone.

Also, if you can't understand how parasites could be created by a loving god, that seems to be your problem. There are people who do believe that it happened that way. And they aren't the people who think the kid must have been a fag, neither! I think that line just further cements my point. His spiritual belief that god doesn't exist and didn't create this world is just as much about what he thinks and feels than it is about facts. He can't make "Loving God" and "Parasites in small children" fit together, so he doesn't believe it. But for some people, it can be done. Don't shit on us just because you believe something different about a question that can never be wholly answered.

j lzrd / swift idiot - 2009-07-25
Get over yourself, you Narcissian.

RockBolt - 2008-07-17
http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=29302
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