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Desc:WARNING do not watch this vid if you are a wussy DM...you have been warned.
Category:Sports, Educational
Tags:D&D, NERDegory, theDMsCraft, fuck 4th edition
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Comment count is 32
StanleyPain - 2013-07-16
Putting on my beard:
Gridless RPGs kinda suck. It makes the game take even longer than it needs to. Grids just take care of so many problems in one foul swoop that I have no idea why anyone would do away with them. I can KINDA see role playing without any table stuff (I did some campaigns in high school that were done as primarily on-paper stuff that only required a patient DM and some number crunching) and it sort of works, but I can't see using the table space stuff and then going gridless. Sorry D&D kids of the present and future!
Monkey Napoleon - 2013-07-16
I've never DM'd using table stuff, and maybe 50/50 using it playing. This gridless thing baffles me though. What I've always done is use a whiteboard, and sort of roughly estimate distances and stuff using my maps, which are usually on graph paper. Now, the books are already expensive, and using miniatures and play mats and set pieces and whatnot gets really expensive really fast. I can see the appeal of going all out, and have enjoyed games where we did, but if you're just gonna half-ass it anyway... I just don't see the appeal of buying all that shit.

Monkey Napoleon - 2013-07-16
Also, I have no experience with this whatsoever, but what kind of shitty DM rigidly adheres to every rule allowing himself absolutely no room to gently guide what's happening if it turns out to be necessary?

Maru - 2013-07-16
gb2 jrpgs. if you want something like dynamic movement and variation, then ditch the grids.

cognitivedissonance - 2013-07-16
The best games I ever played had neither miniatures nor grid. It was just a straight mental exercise with every player doing pretty much what they knew was possible, on the honor system. Obviously, this doesn't work for all but the most honest and group-oriented groups.

I've always judged the group by their willingness to roleplay without grids and work toward a common goal. A lot of the real "experienced" gamers are so shallow and selfish about their desire to bend the rules that they require heavy quantities of rules to bend.

Old_Zircon - 2013-07-16
I've done very little of this, but what I have done was done without anything but some dice and a couple sheets of paper for taking notes.

Old_Zircon - 2013-07-16
Making detailed landscape models sounds more fun than the game.

Old_Zircon - 2013-07-16
If you really wanted to get picky about distances, a cheap map wheel is only a couple dollars and you can actually use it for other things besides your game (although maybe you'd want a better one in that case).


mouser - 2013-07-16
You don't have to go totally anal on grids.

Without caring for scale, they are still a good indicator for feasibility of attack. Ie, better think twice about shooting that arrow with your buddy in the same line of sight as your target.

memedumpster - 2013-07-16
You guys are trolling me.

Only pussies use flippin' RULE BOOKS, let alone grids.

Old People - 2013-07-16
"Fell swoop." It's from Macbeth.

Monkey Napoleon - 2013-07-16
I'll also add that this guy seems to be like almost every hardcore DM I've ever met. He thinks everything he does is just the absolute greatest and anyone who does things differently is just wrong.
RocketBlender - 2013-07-16
I've actually seen him before in a few terrain building videos. One thing I actually like about him is that he always goes for the absolute cheapest way to do something. While some tutorials recommend going out this tool or that medium, he always sticks to cardboard, newspaper, and spray paint. Yeah, he can get pretty pretentious at times, but he does have some decent ideas for making maps. I can't use everything he does, since I usually work with foam and try to have more height, but he's come in handy.

PlusDome - 2013-07-16
Celebrity DMs, America's Next Top DM, Dungeon Nightmares

RocketBlender - 2013-07-16
Grid less or not, all my stars for the "fuck 4th edition" tag.

I could give you a million nerd reasons why I don't like it from lack of multi class to lack of actual roleplaying, but I'll spare you guys.

I know quite a few board and even some card games that are more fun and involved.
Monkey Napoleon - 2013-07-16
3.5 4lyfe!

memedumpster - 2013-07-16
Everything starting with 3.0 is designed to be upgraded like shovelware software, maximizing the amount of useless, overpriced books you have to buy to use your imagination.

Rules Cyclopedia is the only rule book worth money.

glasseye - 2013-07-16

Paracelsus - 2013-07-16
1st ed. First fucking ed.

Monkey Napoleon - 2013-07-16
Ultra Mega Nerd time.

People who buy all the books are sad as shit and probably don't have the requisite imagination you're thinking of in the first place. All D&D supplemental material since the beginning of time is horrible game-breaking bullshit. They do it not because it's required or helpful in any way, but because of stupidity or autistic tendency or collector mentality (how many guys do you know who've spent hundreds of dollars on books they've never even used). There is literally no supplemental or presitge class you can't hack together through multi-classing and roleplay. And if your players desire something not covered in the core books, you literally cannot fuck things up worse than the supplemental materials do by arbitrating it yourself.

What makes 3rd editions superior in my mind is that the rules are unified so that each individual mechanic functions in similar ways to all the others. That way, with a broad enough understanding of the rules, you can guess how things work without having to memorize every single thing or stop the game while you hunt for something in the book. Pre-3rd is a harsh mistress for new players because of this.

THA SUGAH RAIN - 2013-07-16
The nerdiest game I've ever played was Warhmmer 40k and there was no fucking grid. It was a three dimensional space that required a lot of measuring and line of sight sticks. This grid shit sounds kind of lame.
Hooker - 2013-07-16
I also fall into the "nerdiest game I've ever played was Warhammer 40k," although I don't understand how it apparently puts me in a class _above_ what I thought was more socially understood and acceptable D&D.

Also, 40k still required enormous rulebooks, various dice, and numerous cutouts for grenade explosions and whatnot. I also kinda wish I still had nerdy friends so I could play it or Magic or something. :(

memedumpster - 2013-07-16
Battlefleet Gothic here.

RocketBlender - 2013-07-16
I never liked Magic all that much, just because no matter how you cut it, no matter what color you play, the best strategy you can have always seems to be 'spend a lot of money, and do it often.'

I'll be honest with you guys, warhammer and similar titles, War Machine, etc. REALLY interest me. I absolutely love to paint minis and build terrain. (if you want to see some of my work, here's me goofing around with Super Dungeon Explore http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s600/Finalbosskefka/demo2_zpsc 3067835.jpg) I normally stick to board games, but I'd be lying if I said games like warhammer weren't tempting, if only for more things to paint and to customize my armies.

How hard is that game to play? Because every time I see people playing it up at the store I run board game night, it intimidates the hell out of them. Even with small clashes I'll watch people roll handfulls of dice, exchange a few words ('stims' 'AP' 'tactile armor' 'fuck you') and each of them pul several pieces off the board. It just seems a bit confusing with a lot going on...

PS: Hooker, you live anywhere near Texas? We've got a few open groups in the store, including mine.

memedumpster - 2013-07-16
Twenty years ago the rules would have seemed intimidating, now you're just manually pushing numbers through a rather simple turn based video game. It's not that hard. You know, unless the 2013 version was intentionally made stupid, like D&D was. Magic was fun too until new editions poured the adderal on the nerd rage.

THA SUGAH RAIN - 2013-07-16
Warhammer 40k isn't hard at all to learn. The codices and rule book are thick, but its mostly reference material and once you know your pieces you don't have to look stuff up all the time.
Magic was fun in like 8th grade. Some time around 2004? there was this huge sweeping rule revision that made the whole thing suck. The magic I knew back in the day is unrecognizable to magic today. I opened a booster pack for shits and giggles the other day and I haven't a fucking clue what the cards do. And yeah, the dominant strategy is "Spend a lot of money" on esoteric combinations of extremely rare cards.

Hooker - 2013-07-16
I'm in Vancouver, Canada. So it's a bit of a drive to Texas, regrettably.

sosage - 2013-07-16
I bought a bunch of Warhammer 40K stuff...and I never got around to playing it. I have been in a 10+ year painting and gluing cycle.

Old_Zircon - 2013-07-16
I used to really like M:TG for a while back at the very tail end of it being completely broken and unfair. They balanced it better around 4th edition and it was never the same after that.

Old_Zircon - 2013-07-16
Right around the same time the art stopped being shitty and awesome. So I guess more like 5th edition. Whatever happened after Ice Age.

chumbucket - 2013-07-16
He makes some good points but he didn't do much to convince me of the "fun" factor on gridless. It's kind of a pain in the RPG ass.
Screwtape - 2013-07-16
Huh? It seemed like English, but somehow not...
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